Hi all. I’m looking to upgrade my existing Tiagra 9spd groupset. I’d like a bit better performance and slightly lighter, and am currently slowed by standard/25 on the longer 1:10 climbs and steeper. I’m ruling out campag as I haven’t seen any good deals, and am considering the following which seem to fit the bill (all prices at merlin btw):

Shimano 105 (5600) @ £330, SRAM Apex @ £360, Shimano 105 (5700) @ £415, SRAM Rival @ £450

Have read a few reviews and comparisons online, have (briefly) ridden bikes with all and don’t have a preference on feel, just looking for real world experience after long term use ideally. How do Shimano and Sram’s groupsets equate after proper use, and what would you rate as best upgrade?

Thanks in advance for any advice…

SRAM rival was £427 from merlin when I bought it. Its lighter than 105 and ultegra. It seems pretty good, maybe not quite as smooth as ultegra in terms of shifting gears though.

105 – best groupset shimano make in terms of function and bang for buck

if you need more than the 11-27 105 cassette, to get lower gears can use a sram 10 speed cassette (apex or x.9), a shimano 9 speed mtb derailluer (say slx)and the 105 sti 10 speed will work it fine

rootes1 – does that arrangement only work with SRAM cassettes?

I’d go 105, I find the mechanical ‘clunk’ of SRAM to be a bit wearing whereas the Swiss watch style “snick” of Shimano is much more pleasant in use.

I’ve got 105 shifters on my road bike at the moment and they’re easily comparable to Ultegra I’ve had in the past in terms of quality, performance and reliability.

I think the hoods on Shimano feel MUCH nicer too, and not just the shape. SRAM hoods feel really cheap in comparison.

I bought my groupset with a compact chainset and a 11/28 cassette. That will get you up any hill.

I prefer the hoods on the SRAM I think, a bit comfier than the ultegra ones I had.

I think in an ideal world I’d try to justify rival as it appears ‘better’ in nearly every way and I don’t have a particular attachment to the feel of either system, but I don’t fancy parting with that much cash – especially for a road bike which takes a fair amount of abuse. I wonder whether 105 or apex are that much of an improvement over tiagra (although reviews and manufacturers obviously claim they are) to justify the change, but I would like a wider range for longer rides as most of my riding involves repeatedly winching up some obscene gradient and then flying down the other side.

rootes1 – does that arrangement only work with SRAM cassettes?

i used sram apex cassette – was an article on the web a while back and was recently reprinted/mentioned in the ctc mag – spacing is the same as shimano road cassette

what i don’t know is whether shimano dynasys mtb 10speed cassettes are the same spacing as sram apex / shimano road 10 speed?

bajsyckel –

why not stick with tiagra 9 speed but fit a bigger 9 speed mtb cassette and suitable mtb derailluer?

rootes1- it’s a thought I’ve had, but am also trying to prepare for when stuff wears out which would be at the end of the summer (rings, cassette, chain – almost makes it worth changing full group if I’d like to go compact in the longer term). Also, I wasn’t sure of rear mech/shifter compatibility across shimano road and mtb – is the cable pull the same? Presumably it wouldn’t work with SRAM as the cable pull is different (?).

There are 4 cable pull ratios:

1. Shimano 8/9 speed MTB and 8/9/10 speed road
2. Shimano 10 speed MTB
3. SRAM 9 speed
4. SRAM 10 speed road/MTB

Parts are not cross compatible outside that, so you can use a 9 speed MTB mech with 10 speed road STIs, but not MTB shifters, and vice versa.

I’d get 105, probably just 5600, as I prefer the ergonomics of the older shifters, and its 20% cheaper.

You could also get away with a 105 (or Ultegra) medium cage deraileur and a 32 large sprocket, which with a 34 front ring, should sort you out if you want to stay at a double. Or just go for Apex which will give you this sort of range as standard. Depends on money/what you want really. I’m planning on chopping in my std Ultegra rear mech for a 105 med cage and a wide spread SRAM or Shimano cassette. Buying a complete gset is probably the cheapest route but personally I’d go for the shifters from a better grouset and save some cash on mechs (say Rival shifters/Apex mechs for instance).

with a 34 front ring, should sort you out if you want to stay at a double.

A standard double is 39 tooth at the front, not 34.

Just to complicate things Shiny Bikes have Campag Centaur within budget or Athena 11 speed for under £550. I have athena on my road bike and prefer it to the Ultegra on other road bikes I’ve ridden. More ‘lively’ feel, just as fast to change, looks amazing and the ability to change more than 1 gear in an arm throw is great.

105 is a lot heavier than Apex, circa 400g or something. There was a shootout between 105, Centaur and Apex in Cycling Plus a while ago. I was suprised how much heavier the Shimano stuff was. Apex won though I’m sure that was more for the crazy get-out-of-jail low gear rather than much else.

Not sure what benefit Rival has over Apex. Carbon levers I think, but not sure if the shifters are actually any lighter.

If you’re not on a compact already go for that first.

I’ve got 105 and Rival. The Rival is better IMO but both work fine

Thanks for the opinions folks. Think the most sensible options are; a) a mtb cassette/mech bodge and run everything into the ground, hoping that I can justify/afford something nice when the time comes, or b) go for the apex which offers a weight saving and greater gear range, but costs more in the short term. Decisions, decisions…