Graham – usually cash sometimes use the chip and pin

So do you think that Chip+Pin or getting cash out an ATM is more secure than contactless?

You still in Edinburgh these days? Used the Tesco garage in Dunfermline recently?

Skimming device found at Dunfermline petrol pump

if I kill the chip I can no longer use the card at all.

There will be an antenna running around the near edge of the card.
You can break the antenna without breaking the chip.
🙂

Which banks, tjagain?

Clydesdale certainly – I think BOS said the same when I asked them –

My preferred medium of exchange

I’ve skim read the thread, so someone may have said this already, but there’s an important difference between whether scamming an RFID card is technically possible (which it probably is) and practically feasible (which it probably isn’t).

To process a debit/credit card payment, you need to be a vendor with a Merchant ID issued by an acquirer, i.e. a bank. That ID is registered against the bank account that the funds will go to, and to open a bank account you have to jump through a lot of Anti Money Laundering and ID hoops. The paper trail from the person waving a card machine around your crotch on the tube, and the ultimate recipient of the funds would be clear and conclusive, so it’s just not worth it from a scammers perspective.

My preferred medium of exchange

Ah, so you’ve moved to Fife then? 😉

I love contactless!

I realised I didn’t use my all my cards much and used my watch to pay for everything contactless, which is easy as I don’t even have to whip my wallet out

Thanks to the slim wallets thread a while ago I bought a Hacket x Trove and carry 3 cards now – work ID, debit card, driving licence – plus some cash. I use all of these regularly enough to warrant carrying them (driving licence less so, but it’s handy and I have my ICE details on it)

I was thinking about some sort of RFID type material or a RFID blocking card but then figured it was just a money spinner and extremely unlikely to happen (I live and work in London)

[still love my little wallet too :-))

In all seriousness I know not using contactless does not really improve my security. However because contactless payments show up differently on my statement it simply means that I can see any fraudulent contactless payments at a glance – as any contactless payments on my account will be fraudulent

@tjagain – does that logic not seem slightly flawed? I’m surprised you moved away from shillings and cheques? 😯

However because contactless payments show up differently on my statement it simply means that I can see any fraudulent contactless payments at a glance – as any contactless payments on my account will be fraudulent

How long did it take for you to adopt debit card use ?

I use a RFID blocker in my wallet, I remember reading an article where someone setup a card reading device and was able to log over 100 card an hour in a busy park, this was a few years ago.

If in London, I would be worried, they no longer need to touch your wallet to get your money, but again this has been going on for years.

Call me a tin foil hat wearer if you like, but isn’t that like saying pick pocketing isn’t real. RFID hacking has been going on for many years now, it’s just easier to secure yourself than keep up to date with the new hacking techniques. These days it’s even easier, as it’s quite easy to disguise your true identity when setting up as a merchant.

As someone above said, disable the RFID and use your iPhone, at least it requires a fingerprint as well.

Wouldn’t pay for a blocker.
A piece of foil is plenty.

There’s a vid somewhere on youtube demonstrating the active blockers. Probably eevblog? I certainly remember some store where they had these blockers on display at the till… you can see where this is going… all contactless payments were failing 😉

If in London, I would be worried, they no longer need to touch your wallet to get your money, but again this has been going on for years.

That picture has been doing the rounds for a while. It’s not taken in London, it’s from Russia.

It really doesn’t matter where it was taken, but good to know, it’s not like it can only happen in Russia. 😉

That’s quite clearly a….

Inspired by this thread, I’ve just ordered one of these.

Wouldn’t pay for a blocker.
A piece of foil is plenty.

This.

If you want to be fancy, stick some foil onto a strip of gaffer tape and then cut to whatever shape you want (like a credit card shape maybe). On a three fold wallet putting a strip in the notes section should suffice.

It really doesn’t matter where it was taken, but good to know, it’s not like it can only happen in Russia.

Hah, and I’ve just spotted, the URL of the image is Snopes! I’ve found the full article:

http://www.snopes.com/fraud/identity/pickpocket.asp

If you’re going to set up as a fraudulent merchant, there are much better ways of generating cash than wondering round the tube with a RFC reader or terminal!

tjagain – Member
One thing that really annoys me about this is my bank no longer issues non contactless cards so I do not have the option not to have a contactless card. That annoys me. I have never used contactless and never will so any contactless transactions on my account will be fraudulent.

Your stoic ability to adopt a contrary position for almost any conceivable aspect of life is quite something.

tips hat.

Your stoic ability to adopt a contrary position for almost any conceivable aspect of life is quite something.

tips hat.

He’s contrary about headgear too.

(-:

Rik – Member

there must be a reason that pretty much every new wallet on the market has RFID protection.

Yep, marketing.

The UK’s card and bank security is entirely built on 2 things- 1, blocking large frauds and not really giving a crap about little ones, and 2, paying customers back when it happens. It’s the same for contactless- don’t worry about being skimmed, it’s extremely unlikely and if it does happen it’s a trivial thing.

Do check your statements though. I’d bet money that lots of people who’re paranoid about skimming etc don’t bother to routinely check their bank accounts

Cougar – Moderator

Your stoic ability to adopt a contrary position for almost any conceivable aspect of life is quite something.

tips hat.

He’s contrary about headgear too.

(-: [/quote]

Not at all. I have a fine selection of hats. Fedora, Panama, no baseball caps tho

entirely consistent 😉

I have two debit cards that look identical, one on my account and one on our joint account. For years, to avoid getting them mixed up I’ve cut a corner off of one. That one doesn’t work contactless, the whole one does.

So if you are worried, don’t buy a wallet, just grab the sissors.

How much to repair an ATM after someone stuck a damaged card in it, I wonder…

(-:

Interesting that people have bought RFID wallets probably as they liked the wallet but it would seem nobody has bought a separate RFID ‘protector’ credit card……..

There was a thread about a year ago on this :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/rfid-skimming-something-to-worry-about/page/3

look for deadkennys comments on page 3…

How much to repair an ATM after someone stuck a damaged card in it, I wonder…

I wouldn’t know, but you’ll be relieved to know it works fine (and has done for the last 15 years). You only need to trim the corner, not cut the thing in two.

I may not have been entirely serious.

Terminals can’t read more than one card presented together, so if you have more than one contactless card you should be ok, right? I have about five. Maybe just having an old expired contactless card in the wallet would work?

I have often thought it would be cool to have a wallet with RFID protection except for one slot. Then I could put my main account card in it and just beep my wallet instead of having to remove the card. Although that would then break the security concept above 🙂

I may not have been entirely serious.

Sorry! Rubbish day……..

I have often thought it would be cool to have a wallet with RFID protection except for one slot. Then I could put my main account card in it and just beep my wallet instead of having to remove the card. Although that would then break the security concept above

I have my main card in one half of my wallet and all the others in another. When I need to pay I just open my wallet, ping the right side and put it away again, no card removal necessary.

I have often thought it would be cool to have a wallet with RFID protection except for one slot. Then I could put my main account card in it and just beep my wallet instead of having to remove the card.

I have exactly that. I’m not bothered about the security aspect of it (as I think the real risk is so tiny) but I want to make sure I’m paying with the right card.

Terminals can’t read more than one card presented together, so if you have more than one contactless card you should be ok, right?

Apparently the readers on the London Underground can. There was masses of advertising a while back (might still be now, I don’t always pay attention) telling people not to keep oyster cards and contactless cards in the same place as the readers would charge all of them for each journey.

Assuming that’s correct, it’s poor coding. It’d be trivial to reject a card scan that’s inside of, I don’t know, a second of the previous one.

Maybe that’s why multiple cards dummy the readers; it’s not that they can’t read multiple cards but rather that they don’t know which to read and so reject the transaction?

I killed the contactless on my card by washing it, tumble drying it (which bent the card to the shape of the drum) then using an iron to flatten it again. et voila a non contactless card.

To be honest though if you are worried about the small possibility of someone reading your card, buy a RFID blocking wallet. It is probably less hassle than the above.

Personally i love contactless payment, but like many have mentioned i use apple pay (or android), this uses an encrypted one time use tokenized system which i think is far superior than just using the card.

My actual cards now live in my work bag, and i only get my wallet out when making purchases above 30 pounds, which is quite rare.

this uses an encrypted one time use tokenized system which i think is far superior than just using the card.

That doesn’t sound hugely different to what I understand the card protocol to be.

Main benefit of using a phone seems to be the requirement for a fingerprint.

Mind you at least with a card you can be sure there are no malicious programs running in the background that might try to intercept it somehow.

Two of my 3 cards in my wallet are RFID

One is my work pass, then driving licence, then bank card

Middle one is obviously not RFID. I can hold the wallet to the reader and it reads, with all 3 cards stacked. I just turn the wallet the right way round

Assuming that’s correct, it’s poor coding. It’d be trivial to reject a card scan that’s inside of, I don’t know, a second of the previous one.

Maybe that’s why multiple cards dummy the readers; it’s not that they can’t read multiple cards but rather that they don’t know which to read and so reject the transaction?
Still true on the Tube, AFAIK, and it happens with the cards and dongles used for accessing security doors.
Place I used to work had security cards, and they were set up to restrict where different employees had access, due to financial and data security, and one of the blokes had access to a number of buildings each with its own card/dongle – you could hear him beeping repeatedly trying to get a door to open because the various dongles interfered with each other.
Not a problem for anyone else, because all personal property, like wallets, was forbidden.