so, have we decided which religion is the worst yet………… 🙄

If there were no religions, we'd have to invent some.

But who made God and who does God worship?

Mr and Mrs Cantona made Him and He worships nobody.

If there were no religions, we'd have to invent some.

Didn't we do that already?

Perhaps they don't want to waste time arguing with ignorant folk who think they are superior and don't get it, never will get it and don't WANT to take the time to understand their point.

Is this aimed at me? You are very wrong regarding this subject if it was.

I don't think christians or indeed jews believe that god actually wrote any part of the bible himself.

Many, many people believe the bible to be the divine word of god.
(I am not one of them)

Perhaps they don't want to waste time arguing with ignorant folk who think they are superior and don't get it, never will get it and don't WANT to take the time to understand their point.

Reminds me of the vegetarian discussion of a few days ago.

I can't find the one where Woppit talked about people trying to convert people.

Now Woppit knows what it's like to be defamed eh. I hope you're a bit upset about it.

So then, was there ever any point to this thread, other than an attempt at stirring up arguments? We go through this same old s**t on an all too regular basis, and to be frank, it never goes anywhere. I have stated quite openly in the past that I have faith, but dont feel that I have to justify it to a group of people that I dont really know, and by the same token, wouldnt expect any of the self proclaimed athiests on here to justify their belief systems (or lack of, whatever). Give it a rest, it got boring a long time ago.

I thought it was turning into an actual theological discussion for a while, which would have been interesting.. 🙁

Give it a rest, it got boring a long time ago.

I don't agree! If it were boring nobody would be posting 🙂

I thought it was turning into an actual theological discussion for a while, which would have been interesting.

ya think ??

😆

barnsleymitch

Sorry if anything I said offended you, it wasn't intentional. As molgrips said, there was almost real theological discussion for a while.

However, I can't help reading your post as 'well if you don't get it then that's your problem for being a stupid atheist'. I really would like to understand how and why all the above arguments do/don't impact on your faith?

Coming from a scientific perspective anyone who presents a logical argument or bit of evidence that disproves something I think will always have an impact on what I believe.

edit: if that's personal then that's fine, don't answer. Just don't get angry if people want to openly question religion or theology. We should be able to discuss our beliefs without offending you.

Can I just refer you to ton's insightful post at the top of this very page simon? rob, I wasnt offended by anything you'd said, it's just that we have this or similar threads on a very regular basis. Occasionally they have become quite poisonous, and for this reason alone, I get quite p****d off by them. I know it's a bit of an old chestnut, but live and let live, please.

dont feel that I have to justify it to a group of people that I dont really know

Personally I wasn't asking for any justification or the likes. I find it an interesting topic to discuss from any point of view. And have no issue with peoples beliefs as long as they know why they believe what they do.

Part of this, to me, is the ability to be able to discuss it (like an adult). Obviously t'internet is not the ideal place.

I thought it was turning into an actual theological discussion for a while, which would have been interesting.

Me to.

Can I just refer you to ton's insightful post at the top of this very page simon?

OK, I'll allow that ton's contributions have been dull, but we're used to that…

I've always found his use of the rolling eyes emoticon original, varied and thought-provoking…

😆

Mitch has discussed his faith in more detail on other threads, but he gets such grief over it I don't think he fancies it again. If he doesn't want to go into it, you have to respect that do you not?

we have this or similar threads on a very regular basis.

So? It's an important (and interesting!) issue. If you don't want to contribute then that's A-OK.

Occasionally they have become quite poisonous

Obviously that is bad, but I wasn't aware this thread was becoming malicious.

🙂

If he doesn't want to go into it, you have to respect that do you not?

not really, but he has to by not contributing….

I'm quite interested to know how the sudden reversal came about whereby those leaning to the left suddenly became the defenders of religion.

When I was rubbing shoulders with the self righteous defenders of truth and justice, religion was definately seen as part of the problem. Why the 180 shift ?

I don't think I've read many outright criticisms of religion in this thread, and suspect a lot of it has been ridicule through apparently supportive statements

Why the 180 shift

you don't have to agree with something in order to debate it.

no, actually I'm saying I prefer to work things out for myself rather than having someone else tell me what to think or do. I don't know how many gods there are, or why I should care about what they think if there are any, [/b]and the only truths I know concern my own immediate experience

Surely though there must be things you accept as truths because other people have told you, or you've read in a book etc, rather than experienced yourself. Personally I believe everything is made of atoms, New Zealand is a country far away, radios work by transmitting radio waves and that most white van drivers wish to see me dead. In reality I've only got immediate experience of one of those. The rest I take on trust.

Surely though there must be things you accept as truths because other people have told you, or you've read in a book etc, rather than experienced yourself. Personally I believe everything is made of atoms

I'm willing to accept the hypothesis to the extent that it impinges upon my philosophy. I have no way of knowing if it's true.

I'm willing to accept the hypothesis to the extent that it impinges upon my philosophy. I have no way of knowing if it's true.

Surely then for a lot of folk the same is true of religion. They weigh up the evidence, read, or listen to, the sources and come to the conclusion there either is, or isn't, a God.

Blimey, this has lasted five pages without being closed- good going!!!

And while we're on the subject of religion, here's a quick rant, prior to me going to see assorted comics at the Edinburgh Fringe. To all the comedians out there:-

If you're going to do something about religion, please make it funny and inventive. Just slagging off the tiny percentage of folk who believe in the literal 6 day truth of Creationism doesn't make your comedy "cool", "edgy" or "dangerous". It makes you sound too lazy to write decent material. Nothing wrong with being offensive, but don't be so sad as to pick on such an easy target. Also, I've seen a lot of you get stuck into Christianity/Jesus/God in a big way. Fair enough, there's lots of material there that's funny. Most Christians probably find it hilarious too. But I've noticed over the years you tend to shy away from any direct reference to Mohammed. What's wrong there? Scared perhaps? Realise that it's much more fun to target folk who won't come and kill you? Suddenly your "principled stand against the evils of religion" doesn't seem so smart, does it? Cowards. If I part with 10 quid, I want to hear you come up with something witty and original, okay?

There, rant over. Hope some Fringe performers are reading this. Marcus Brigstock did a great show about religion last year. Very balanced, and very funny.

They weigh up the evidence, read, or listen to, the sources and come to the conclusion there either is, or isn't, a God.

having done the same thing, I came to the conclusion that there's no way to tell how many gods there are. But also that I don't care what the answer is.

One might say most religions are not much about gods but frameworks for regulating behaviour (or excuses for bad behaviour). They function whether or not the supposed god(s) listen or even exist.

emma82 – Member
Blimey, this has lasted five pages without being closed- good going!!!

classy topic from a classy bloke………. 😉

attention troll…………..my ar5e…………. 🙄

classy topic from a classy bloke… attention troll…my ar5e

modest too, but he wasn't getting much attention as he was hardly involved 🙂

They weigh up the evidence, read, or listen to, the sources and come to the conclusion there either is, or isn't, a God

I don't think this is true, sorry. I'd like if it was.

Most* religious people have the same religion as their parents. That suggests it's nothing to do with an objective assessment of evidence, but rather a matter of upbringing/social or peer pressure/etc, as someone alluded too earlier.

*I have no figures to back this up, but I dare you to find anything that disproves it.

simon, never involved, just like to watch…….. 8)

never involved

Translation: Has nothing intelligent to actually say.

Oh sorry, forgot: 🙄

"never involved, just like to watch…….."
Yes, from inside the wardrobe, tugging at yourself and sobbing at the futility of it all.

😆 at mitch

🙄 at that other bloke

*I have no figures to back this up, but I dare you to find anything that disproves it.

To be honest, I've no figures to back up much of what I post on this forum. I just type it and hope no-one will challenge. You've sussed me out, damm you! 🙂

back in 5, do you mind if i leave my ruck sack here.

When I was rubbing shoulders with the self righteous defenders of truth and justice, religion was definately seen as part of the problem. Why the 180 shift ?

"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to your death your right to say it."

Most* religious people have the same religion as their parents

I wonder what percentage of atheists have atheist parents?

One might say most religions are not much about gods but frameworks for regulating behaviour (or excuses for bad behaviour). They function whether or not the supposed god(s) listen or even exist.

True enough. Theology and religion aren't the same.