Maybe next time you should come along, it’s aimed at 8 year olds, but I’m sure they could slow it down a bit for you.

And now childish personal insults. Just a thought, but shouldn’t you be respecting the fact that he believes something different to you, and that’s ok?

How so ?
I replied and quoted the person that said it.

Where has anyone claimed that children don’t learn about other religions? The point is about the way they learn about Christianity as opposed to other religions. Also, you claimed someone said kids ‘never go to mosques’ whereas I specifically mentioned ‘on a regular basis’.

Classic case of twisting other people’s arguments to suit your own.

And now childish personal insults. Just a thought, but shouldn’t you be respecting the fact that he believes something different to you, and that’s ok?

He can believe anything he wants.

And he should give other people the same freedom, without calling them Crackpot and Loony Tunes.

If he came along then he might learn some tolerance.

You don’t seem very tolerant of his beliefs.

Makes me realise that my kids are lucky. Service every day at schools including Sunday, lots of theology lessons (even to a level or equivalent) and lots of chances to have their go at reading something and choices for parents to either watch or ride their bikes as they choose. Marvellous, none of these terrible dilemmas to deal with.

You don’t seem very tolerant of his beliefs.

How can I be, He hasn’t said what they are, or even if he has any.

He just insulted someone he’s never met, based purely on the fact that he’s a Hindu.

Last day of term and in 90mins l’ll be off to the kids CofE school for the end of term service in the church down the road. Followed by the kids Easter bonnet parade around the school playground, where tea and cake will be served.

Did you hear that?

Tea and cake

See another great reason to have a little faith in your life.

Hats, chocolate eggs, tea, and cake are also available in secular venues. I had a hot cross bun last night, without having to consider one of the means execution favoured by the Roman empire; it was lovely.

Easter bonnet parades and egg decorating competitions are a great English Easter tradition. Nothing to do with religion though.

Religion should be removed from the curriculum in any form other than awareness that it exists.

IanW – Member
Religion should be removed from the curriculum in any form other than awareness that it exists.

Probably the worst idea ever, teach about it but don’t indoctrinate people. Ignorance is one of the biggest issues in the world.

So has anyone come up with any reason why Christianity should be promoted in schools yet?

No. Everybody is agreeing but is too busy disagreeing to notice!

Perhaps we should all love thy neighbour more

Perhaps we should all love thy neighbour more

Or do unto others?

grum – Member
So has anyone come up with any reason why Christianity should be promoted in schools yet?

I have two….and lots of their mates. Very lucky all of them. Glad the such an opportunity still exists these days.

It depends what you mean by “RE”

Well as you say, RE is the lesson where you learn about religion. Collective worship is different. And not all schools do a religious version of that.

So I don’t think it’s fair to complain about RE lessons – complain about collective worship instead.

Collective worship is different. And not all schools do a religious version of that.

But all schools should, by law. This law is wrong, and is what campaigners are trying to change.

I don’t think it’s fair to complain about RE lessons

Nobody is.

complain about collective worship instead

We are.

So has anyone come up with any reason why Christianity should be promoted in schools yet?

I have two….and lots of their mates. Very lucky all of them. Glad the such an opportunity still exists these days.[/quote]

Opportunities to read/sing in public can be, and are, provided in non-religious contexts.

The opportunity to sing and read aloud in a religious context is provided by your faith of choice on Fridays/Saturdays/Sundays at various venues around the country.

Indeed they are.

Not restricted to Fri/sat/Sun which is also a relief. They get more for nothing, even luckier than I first thought. And the music too, it’s inspirational. Human voices and a skilled organist in harmony, fantastic.

Human voices and a skilled organist in harmony

Or, in a state school, a badly tuned upright piano played by an amateur (or a CD) while the hymn is sung without any real skill or enthusiasm.

None of which are arguments for/against compulsory Christian worship in state-funded schools.

Well a shame if such pleasures became restricted on an ability to pay basis?

mikewsmith – Member

IanW – Member
Religion should be removed from the curriculum in any form other than awareness that it exists.

Probably the worst idea ever, teach about it but don’t indoctrinate people. Ignorance is one of the biggest issues in the world.

So thats awareness then.

Well a shame if such pleasures became restricted on an ability to pay basis?

It sounds like they already are, in schools. How many state schools do you think have a pipe organ and organist? 🙂

Thankfully, churches, temples, mosques and synagogues don’t charge entry fees so are available to all.

The piano can also sound beautiful in harmony with the human voice, and childrens’ voices alone can also be sublime. But yes, it’s good news those other places are free of charge too – ok, give or take, the small donation.

Perhaps we should do something about the fact that this is restricted on the ability to pay. That doesn’t sound good.

Probably the worst idea ever, teach about it but don’t indoctrinate people. Ignorance is one of the biggest issues in the world

I think the issue is that many consider the teaching and the forced act of worship to be an example of ignorance being forced upon us
Religion is a personal thing and those who wish to do it should be free to do so if they choose. What they should not do is make the rest of us do it

Good luck with your trolling re fee paying THM someone may respond..perhaps you could up the goading till they do?

FWIW you are happy with your choice as it reflects your view, why would you deny other parents the same choice? Ie no religion in education?
Its not like we are trying to force you to NOT worship.

The point I was making was that you need to teach people about the existence of religions and what it’s about. This is what RE should be about.

The practice of religion is something completely different.

I have two….and lots of their mates. Very lucky all of them. Glad the such an opportunity still exists these days.

How is that any kind of reason/argument? What do you even mean by that?

This is what RE should be about.

And IS about IME.

Reasoned argument? Present cases where people have benefitted from the experience. Meant to be pretty obvious, not a parable! Plus the freedom to choose to have that option for them, for which I am very grateful. I had the same and so did they. I hope their grandchildren will as well.

…forced act of worship to be an example of ignorance being forced upon us

No child is “forced” to take part, or even be present at an act of worship in school.

At least not in England.

Reasoned argument? Present cases where people have benefitted from the experience. Meant to be pretty obvious, not a parable! Plus the freedom to choose to have that option for them, for which I am very grateful. I had the same and so did they. I hope their grandchildren will as well.

It’s nothing they couldn’t get from a secular environment though. Still not an argument for the promotion of Christianity in schools.

…forced act of worship to be an example of ignorance being forced upon us

No child is “forced” to take part, or even be present at an act of worship in school.

At least not in England.[/quote]

Parents can opt out but, as this thread shows, many don’t know that it happens. Plus, all the other kids will assume that they’re Jehova’s Witnesses if they opt out, as they’re usually the only ones who do, and who wants to make their kid singled out in this way?

If a school is following the official guidance, “passive attendance” is not acceptable. That implies ‘forced’* to take part; I certainly remember kids being told off for not singing or not bowing their head in prayer.

*for a given value of force

If a school is following the official guidance, “passive attendance” is not acceptable

Yes it is.

If a school is following the official guidance, “passive attendance” is not acceptable

Yes it is.[/quote]

That’s not argument, it’s just contradiction.

It also ignores the actual words of the actual guidance:

‘Taking part’ in collective worship implies more than simply passive attendance

– paragraph 59

Yes, paragraph 59 defines what “taking part” means.

For those that don’t want to take part……

86 The right of withdrawal from collective worship would normally be exercised through the physical withdrawal of the pupil from the place where the act of worship is taking place. Indeed the school could insist that this is the way the right is to be implemented. If, however, both the parent and the school agree that the pupil should be allowed to remain physically present during the collective worship but not take part in it, nothing in the law prevents this.

That’s not argument, it’s just contradiction.

It’s a good one though 😉

It also ignores the actual words of the actual guidance:

Not really, it’s just read all of them, not just the bits that it wants to argue against.

I actually didn’t know there was any rules regarding this until recently, and was quite surprised that there were. ( think it was a post from Junkyard that I first heard about them)That’s when I read the guidelines.

It’s nothing they couldn’t get from a secular environment though

Fortunately, they are in a position to make their own minds up on that. Interesting #2 was revising Natural Law Theory yesterday (yes, it’s in RE) and the secular version (Aristotle) verses the alternative (Acquinas). Rather than being indoctrinated they are fully able to make their own views on the Summum Bonum. Thank God for education!!

it’s just read all of them, not just the bits that support it’s view

touché 🙂

Fortunately, they are in a position to make their own minds up on that.

Why not wait until they are adults to let them make that choice? I don’t think you can legitimately claim kids are freely making up their own minds when they’ve been indoctrinated from a young age.

Plus the freedom to choose to have that option for them, for which I am very grateful. I had the same and so did they. I hope their grandchildren will as well

Not really contradicting the view that is is indoctrination and done to make folk believers though is it 😉
No answer as to why non believers are denied the same choice 😕

think it was a post from Junkyard that I first heard about them)

No it was Mikes link that i was quoting from so not mine – I did know there were rules though.

The point I was making was that you need to teach people about the existence of religions and what it’s about.

That it exists should be fairly easy to cover, whats it all about could be more difficult.

So, accepting that fact that my kids would be entitled to spend part of their school day passively ignoring the singing and prayers, is it a good use of their time* and should it be something in which the state is engaging**?

*ten minutes per day is around 33 hours of school time per year, which is 400 hours over their school life
**active promotion of one (version of one) religion over the others

grum – Member
Why not wait until they are adults to let them make that choice?

As with lots of education, I believe that they are mature enough to be exposed to the beauties/horrors of the worlds religions (you decide). Ditto ethics, sex, calculus, and glaciation. Perhaps economics is indoctrination too far though?!?

I don’t think you can legitimately claim kids are freely making up their own minds when they’ve been indoctrinated from a young age.

Well I can. We all discusses this over lunch in Monday. Every person around the table had their own views and had made up their own minds. The beauty of recognising that they are mature enough to take into account a broad church of views.

Well I can. We all discusses this over lunch in Monday. Every person around the table had their own views and had made up their own minds.

and how many of your christian friend’s children freely decided of their own accord to start believing in a none christian religion?

I would think for the vast majority the “choice” is to either follow their parent’s/peer group’s/school’s* religion or don’t bother at all.

*probably in descending order of influence but again for most I’d guess they’re mostly the same for all 3, even if only “by default”

think it was a post from Junkyard that I first heard about them)
No it was Mikes link that i was quoting from so not mine – I did know there were rules though.

It was a while ago, in another of the many religion threads 😉