I was made redundant in November, I'm trying all the usual routes to find a suitable new position including trying a few agencies.
Two agencies this week have told me that the roles they are recruiting for have been pulled by their clients to be 'reconsidered', whatever that means. Were these ever real vacancies or just put up to lure applicants to the agency?
Anyone had this kind of experience?
what they do is try and find out where u are leaving from, the name of two refs, your rate and where u have applied to for new jobs (to avoid duplication, obviously)
they have little or no intention of fidning u a job, they just try and fill the one you are leaving from and put other people forward for the ones you've applied for.
Recruitment agencies are a total waste of time, about the only thing they're good for is registering with to show the Job Centre that you're "earning" your dole money.
I've only ever had one interview as a result of a recruitment agency and it was a total disaster - the agency told me it was for a chemical company in a "technical sales" job and when I turned up I found it was a "marketing" role; they didn't want someone with a chemistry degree, they wanted a PR/advertising bod.
it all depends what industry your in. i have used them in the past and they have been quite good getting specific jobs in certain areas.
I have several friends in recruitment, and there are jobs out there but they aren't as plentiful as they were a couple of years back. One of the main things to remember is that these guys work on a bonus to go hand in hand with their rubbish basic salary. So if there's a job out there that suits you and you have a few months/years experience and a competitor who has much better appeal than you they will go for the latter as they will get more money from that person.
Clients do seem to be pulling positions though. One of my freinds was set to earn a small fortune this Christmas from one company and at the last minute they pulled it on account of 'lack of business' . You're not the only ones being mucked about.
What industry are you in?
I'm in insurance, the agencies are fairly specialist, one of them I believe the other I'm not sure about!
Afte you've exhausted contacts and previous employers they're just about the only way of getting work in IT contracting (and permanent work as well).
My usual way of looking for work was to hit the big jobsites- jobserve, monster etc, and apply for everything I could- unless you're in a niche or specialist field, signing on with one or two agencies and sitting back for them to find work for you isn't going to work.
It's like playing with used car salesmen or estate agents though- thoroughly untrustworthy bunch. Lots of phantom vacancies- the role's been pulled, the projects on hold, the budget's been cut etc. Agencies will promise a lot initially to get you on their database, which isn't a bad thing. Lot of pisstaking with their cut of the money.
A necessary evil imo.
Only job I've been able to get through a recruitment agency is a driving job - one of the "can you start this afternoon?" sort of things.
Unfortunately Yes!
Found it best to find those in agencies dealing with the type of job You're looking for, and get to know them, so they remember you when suitable jobs arise.
[url= http://www.rec.uk.com/jobseeker ]Click here for advice on using agencies[/url]
Big M - Its incompetent HR inside companies that you should worry about more. Yes Recruitment-types (like me) can be salesy however HR can be incompetent and ...we have all experienced the political-HR dept at work.
I have come across HR depts who put positions out, pull them. Put them out- mix up candidates, bully one agency with threats to take the rap/pull out as they know its really the HR dept thats mucked up.
Also HR depts put out tenders- not on the BEST agency but those that are generalist who say they can find everything. Basically so the lazy twunts in HR dont have to do too much work. Net result the business doesnt get as wide an exposure to the best candidates out there.
Funnily I've heard that theres just as high a turnover within HR as with recruitment consultancies. 🙄
Where we fall down with Recruitment Consultants? We expect them to deliver on what shovelled shit is available.
When I was out of work I applied to a lot of agency's, the all promosed to get me a job in no time at all, only one got back to me and that took them a month, mind you I got an interview and the job.
I certainly would never rely solely on agency's, and if I had the time to look for a job which I didn't this time due to my wife being ill, i'd be happy never to use an agency again.
Hora - I don't mind the salesy stuff, one of the guy's I'm dealing with seems decent and honest. I hope it's the client who has pulled the job for the moment. I was supposed to be at the interview today! They didn't tell the agency until Thursday last week, so fairly short notice. He's said that they hope to get things back on track in the new year.
There aren't many jobs about that suit my skills, experience and salary expectations. Guess it'll be a bit of a waiting game.
It seams odd that you often apply for a job, hear nothing so chase up only to be told that the job was filled ages ago & that the "database" needs to be updated.
In other words, there never was a job, just trying to big themselves up.
God it's frustrating
Hora, you seem to be in the "trade" so to speak. I have applied for many positions since being made redundant and my experience of so called "recruitment agencies" has been mixed. Maybe you can explain why the vast majority never even bother to provide feed back after a great deal of time and effort is put into an application? Maybe you can explain why [s]Fenton Williams[/s] a certain agency advertise [i]very[/i] similar vacancies for jobs that obviously don't exist and when you email or telephone then for updates they just ignore you? Is it that as recruitment "consultants" you are above us mere mortals who are just trying to get back into work? At least Spring have the decency to include in their auto-response a message indicating that if you don't hear back in seven days then in all likely hood you won't have been successful. I would be interested to hear your thoughts. On this occasion I genuinely would.
I've worked with many recruitment consultants.
To explain the majority:
They lie at their interview, talk up their previous recruitment experience. 6months-1year later they then move on, again talking up their experience. This continues until they leave the industry (or are found out first).
In the middle of this cycle they live way beyond their means- heavily overdrawn, getting p*ssed on a too-regular basis. Then they come into the office thinking (knowing) it could all end soon so they pay their manager lip-service but churn through the work. This is why you never hearback from them or they seem 'too busy' all the time.
The minority are what I class as 'survivors'- they take all the calls (or at least as many as possible) of candidates 'touching base'. They get back to every candidate either way and as such they receive candidate loyalty. As such their role stops becoming 'sales' and more account management as they are servicing constant-repeat business.
Whereas the numpties are constantly knocking on doors from job to job because they **** up their personal life outside work and want big money (but dont know how to knuckle down earn it).
When I worked in my only other recruitment job back in London the girls used to go out almost every night and order rounds of champagne. Then sit in the office the next morning complaining that they needed more 'slap' on. 😆
I hope this (garbled as its early)- helps explain our sordid industry?
Where you based Big M?
I unfortunately use them on and off for the last 8 years to get freelance/contract work.
They exist primarily to get around employment laws, use fake jobs, contracts cancelled, lie to clients/candidates.
Some recruitment agencies seem to have exclusive contracts with certain companies (i assume this means board memebers are exchanging brown envelopes)
like others have said think of the majority of recruitment consultant as trainnee estate agents, timeshare salesman.
like others have said think of the majority of recruitment consultant as trainnee estate agents, timeshare salesman.
Sounds out of kilter but I would never be friends with one or rely/trust on one for anything. I could probably walk into a council role and second-guess all office politics like a pro after working with these lot.
Like Hora I too work in the trade (IT and telecoms Recruitment), I am a long termer, 5+ years which is a long time in recruitment terms, I’d like to think I’m one of the good guys but I’m sure some people will think differently, so here is my take on a few things mentioned:
Do they actually have vacancies? Mostly yes, but they have a whole lot more candidates. At present (certainly in IT) there is a huge amount of candidates and not very many jobs.
Why do they never come back to me? I set an auto response to any adverts I place, but it is very difficult to respond personally to every applicant due to sheer volume. To give you an idea of numbers, a contract project management job in London can easily expect to get 200 applicants within 24 hours of advertising. If I submit you for a job (something I won’t do without speaking to you first) you will always get feedback from me, positive or negative.
Why do they never find me anything? Mostly a combination of the above. If I’ve got 200 applicants for a job only the very best 20 or so will get called, only 5 or 6 will make a shortlist, of which the client will see 3 or 4 CV’s, interview maybe 3, offer 1. So in honesty, the odds are stacked against you from the start.
Why do jobs keep disappearing? Combination of things, mostly nothing to do with the recruiter. A lot of companies decide they need to hire someone, go through the interview process then realise they can’t afford to hire someone. They also come to us with a “live job” only to tell us after submitting candidates that it was for a bid. There is also the whole moving to goal post approach where a client only realises what the want after receiving some CV’s.
How can I increase my chances? Only apply for jobs that are less than 2 days old and arguably less than 24 hours old. Don’t waste your time with a cover letter, I won’t read it. Instead tune your CV to every application (or at least have 4 or 5 CV’s that emphasis different areas of expertise) so that it reflects what the advert is asking for, make sure the CV is no longer than 3 pages and that the interesting stuff is on the first page. Only apply for jobs your CV says you can do, you may think you’re a wonderful project manager but if you’ve only ever been a business analyst on your CV I won’t call you. Answer your phone when I call, I know that sounds arrogant but if you call me back 24 hours after I have left a message I may have found the number of candidates I require already.
Sorry for the long winded post but I thought it may be nice to give the perspective of someone on the other side of the fence. Hope it helps.
Some recruitment agencies seem to have exclusive contracts with certain companies (i assume this means board memebers are exchanging brown envelopes)
We use an approved shortlist of agencies with whom we've done all the legal paperwork and have agreements in place already. I have been cold-called from other agencies promising a whole range of hospitality that would become available should i decide to use them, especially if I can offer some sort of exclusivity. I could go to premiership football matches, the racing, international rugby events etc. We use agencies based wholly on their performance so this sort of bribery is utterly ineffectual - as a small company we can't take any sorts of risks when it comes to hiring...
Heres something new, if you dont have the experience listed in the ad-
YOU SHOULDNT REASONABLY EXPECT A CALL OR EMAIL BACK.
If someone rang your company selling you rubber widgets and you needed steel bolts but they said 'oh go on, they'll fit if you squeeze them in'. You'd hang up wouldn't you?
How simple is that? 🙄
I'm in the trade and have been for around 5 years now.
I started up a contract recruitment business with some friends after 15 odd years of senior sales in IT and my take is as follows.
Not all recruiters are arseholes just 98% of them.
Most recruiters get into the business because it's a good way for someone unqualified to earn good money.
Most recruiters are under the sort of pressure that would make most people crack and simply don't have time to do what they should in terms of feedback and so forth. In the IT market recruitment is viewed largely as a "numbers" game.
The further up the career ladder you are the better you will be treated, simple economics a 25% fee on a 100k basic is a lot of money, a small percentage on a contractors daily rate on the other hand is not.
The market is saturated with candidates and as such open vacancies are at a premium, be wary of answering questions about where you are interviewing and so on as you are almost certainly being used for leads.
I moved out of IT search into exec search and it's a very different job. People are more open, recruiters tend to be older and perhaps a little less prone to taking shortcuts and most importantly I don't work in competition with other recruiters so if I call someone it's for a genuine job that isn't going to disappear!
I know some very ethical, highly skilled people who are very good at helping people find a better career but I admit in this business they are very few and far between. I like to think I'm on of them!
Most recruiters are under the sort of pressure that would make most people crack
Yep. Totally agree with that. The 'Survivors' in recruitment thrive on the pressure (I think) without noticing it. 10yrs here/two jobs.
Also worth noting the average "firm" recruiter earns around 15- 20k basic but a decent one can earn 100k pretty easily it's amazing what someone will do for 75K!
The market is saturated with candidates and as such open vacancies are at a premium, be wary of answering questions about where you are interviewing and so on as you are almost certainly being used for leads.
Too true - had one guy phone, from an agency we had no contact with previously, saying that he'd spoken to a candidate and found out we had a vacancy. In his opinion he could get us a shortlist of people eminently more suitable for the role than the person we'd interviewed (and not given the job to). He'd been pretty thorough in pumping the guy for information - knew my name, the other people on the team, rough idea of the spec etc.
I find that bit repulsive. Ringing up candidates and pumping them for leads.
Guys, thanks very much for the responses. Some food for thought there and some good tips. Cheers.
I agree, not good practice. It's a dreadful way to approach a company, basically saying I'm unethical work with me!
They joy of being a middleman.
Business Development managers- the most workshy of them all. I clocked ours avoidance and bullcrap techniques the first week I worked with her. 😆
I work in advertising, and agencies seem to be the norm. I've moved twice, and registered with 3 agencies for each move. Both times the same person at the same agency has got me the job, and has been an absolute delight to deal with.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend her. Of the other agencies I used, one talked the talk but only managed to get me one interview for a job I was not suited to (wasting my and the interviewers time) and the rest were just useless and pathological liars!
In fairness these shenanegins are not limited to agencies. I know a couple of companies that don't really intend to appoint anybody, unless they happen across a real superstar. They keep advertising and interviewing though as it makes it look like they are doing well, and it keeps the HR people busy.
I work part time at a university, and the last two appointments for lecturers had 600 applications each.
The horror, the horror.
well i have to say that a recruiter contacted me today to offer me a very lucrative 12 month contract. But i'm perfectly happy with the staff position i have. so yes they do have positions but i guess it depends on the industry. I'm a geologist
I don't do business devleopment anymore, I have reached that happy place where people call me and offer me work!
It's very nice.
I've just got a job through an agency and I'd say they were pretty good.
What really annoys me are IT agencies calling my bro in law up and trying to temp him out of his permanent position with contracting roles. Some of the crap they've been feeding him with boils my p*ss.
Specialist agencies seem a bit useless IME - I was faffed about numerous times by agencies when applying for specialist jobs. Things like forcing me to apply through the agency (having found the job elsewhere), then not answering my calls until the recruitment was closed. Then eventually the company called and said they were sorry but my details had come through too late and they had filled the role with someone else already but would I consider a different one and to "make sure I got it in in time next time".
Temp/normal jobs though seem very plentiful through agencies, my other half barely goes a couple of days without multiple offers from her agency.