Re-built a mates wheel.. « Singletrack Forum

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Re-built a mates wheel..

78 posts & 35 voices | Started 1 year ago by R.lepecha | Latest reply from muppetWrangler

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R.lepecha - Member

I recently rebuilt my mates wheel because he broke the hub. After rebuilding I put pressure on the rim to seat the spokes properly.
I also checked all the spoke tensions by the hand check, all of them seemed tensioned sufficiently and were all quite even.

Now he has only just come to pick the wheel up and he had gone for a short ride then told me its badly knocked out already(rubbing on frame). I told him to bring it back up.

Now my question is, What do I do now. I charged 10 pound to build the wheel up(same spokes as before because using same model hub).

But I cant believe how he believes he was JRA when it knocked out, doesn't seem feasible.

Any one else's opinion?

Posted 1 year ago #
jmann - Member

Never do business with friends or family.....dont charge him, just ask him to get the beers in after your next ride!

You get some kind of "thanks" and it doesnt make things too formal, especially seeing as you cant point the finger about how his wheel got knocked out....

Just my take....

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

I already charged him beforehand, too young for beers after a ride....

Posted 1 year ago #
scu98rkr - Member

Have you done it before ?

I've only built one wheel before, I got it to go straight but it would keep going out of line. I just couldnt get the spokes to tension evenly. To be honest I just did for a laugh so wasnt too surprised.

I took it shop to get it rebuilt properly and the guy there said it was nt bad for a first attempt and was surprised I want it rebuilt considering the cost. But I was doing a big ride in a couple of weeks so I wanted it perfect.

I'd be surprised if your first wheel went perfectly ? If its not your first wheel why would you be asking here ? To be honest I would nt have charged a mate to build a wheel unless I KNEW for sure I could do it right.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

I built my own wheels before, they lasted 6 months without any adjustment before a crash at stainburn caused the front to knock out.

So I KNEW how to build them up correctly from past experience.

Plus all the spokes were tensioned evenly. He rode up and down my street numerous times to test the build, I even rode up and down on it trying to purposefully bend it. No luck.

Which is what I dont understand. How it rides fine one minute when I'm purposefully trying to put it out of true. Then the next minute when he's JRA it knocks out. Coincidence?

Posted 1 year ago #
scu98rkr - Member

Fair enough, but I can believe it went out of line just riding along and he is telling the truth.

From the sound of it you've built 3 wheels you did a good job on the first 2 and the third wheel you didnt do such a good job unfortunately.

Unless of course you mate has a tendency to 10 foot drops or something but you havent mentioned that.

Posted 1 year ago #
scu98rkr - Member

Which is what I dont understand. How it rides fine one minute when I'm purposefully trying to put it out of true. Then the next minute when he's JRA it knocks out. Coincidence?

This is exactly like the wheel I built. I needed more practise wheel building.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

From the sound of it you've built 3 wheels you did a good job on the first 2 and the third wheel you didnt do such a good job unfortunately.

My own wheels I built were a worse job, spoke tension was uneven but they still stayed true. His build was so much better.

Posted 1 year ago #
scu98rkr - Member

Just like to be clear Im not having a go.

I have no idea what your friend is like, maybe he's a pathological liar and rides like a g*t, I dont know.

What your asking though is it possible that a wheel built by a amateur/beginner wheel builder who has built 3 wheels, to suddenly lose tension and go out of line, while just riding along.

The answer to this is most definitely yes in my experience.

Just because you rode it round the street a few times doesnt mean the spokes wont gradually losen.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

If you knew you built them well, would you be asking?

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

I will see when he returns it back, If I believe its not a problem with how its built then I wont do any more work on it. And if hes not happy he can have the tenner back and he can send it in to a bike shop and pay 20 quid.

Posted 1 year ago #
scu98rkr - Member

seems reasonable to me

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

If you knew you built them well, would you be asking?

I'm just asking whether or not you would carry out the extra work if you didn't believe it was your problem.

Posted 1 year ago #
julianwilson - Member

A couple of thoughts from my 20ish wheels built experience:

1) Waaaaay easier to build onto a brand new rim, even if hub and spokes are not new.

2) Rlepecha, were your own wheels on new rims?

3) Was your mate's wheel a handbuilt one or did it come on his bike? Unless you buy a really nice (read £800+ for hardtail) bike, the wheels will have been tensioned by a machine in a hurry and the tensions and stresses on the rim may have been all over the place on the original build. So even tensions may make it straight until the first really hard corner before the rim tries to go back to the shape it wants to be...

4) Do you squeeze the spokes as you go? In my experience this really helps. The wheelpro e-book explains this in great detail.

5) Were your rims you built for yourself a lot burlier than your mate's? I find downhill rims vastly easier and quicker to get dead straight end really really tight than xc ones.

6) Oil your nipples! I leave mine in a little pot of 5wt oil or winter chain lube before I build. It's messier and sounds counter-intuitive but like gresing your bolts, the lube gives you more reliable feedback from the spoke key, allows a tiny bit more tightness before they strt pinging and creaking, and mitigates a little against spokes 'pinging' out of tension.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

1) agreed

2) Old rims

3) Machine, rim was straight by itself though

4) yes

5) weaker rims than his, much weaker.

Which just adds to my concern on why its all gone to pot. I did everything by the book so to speak.

Posted 1 year ago #
deanfbm - Member

Did you bed in the wheel properly?

Posted 1 year ago #
julianwilson - Member

Oh and does he ride much radder than you?

i can well imagine a wheel lasting less time under some of my mate's cornering 'habits' than mine!

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

Did you bed in the wheel properly?

pressed all spokes while being rebuilt, then put on floor and jumped on the outer rim while suspended by the hub, did both sides. Did not budge a 1mm.

Oh and does he ride much radder than you?

i can well imagine a wheel lasting less time under some of my mate's cornering 'habits' than mine!
#

I would say I ride harder than him.

Posted 1 year ago #
nicko74 - Member

Did you bed in the wheel properly?

What's that?
Sorry, being dumb, but I'm building some new rims onto existing wheels myself, so worth knowing!

Posted 1 year ago #
Del - Member

read sheldon brown's guide to wheel building ( online - google ). he recommended using a screwdriver or old crank ( or something ) to lever the spokes around a bit, then re-checking the trueness.
you should sort it for him FOC. should only take a few minutes. charge 15 quid next time - insurance against this sort of thing.

Posted 1 year ago #
DT78 - Member

jumped on the outer rim

? Are you serious ? Generally a strong firm push down does the trick.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

exactly. I over tested it for that exact reason. If it could withstand my jumping on it then how the hell would you knock it out?

I will fix the problem if it has nothing to do with a stripped nipple etc, If it has a component problem I wont fix it as It would mean using my spares.

Posted 1 year ago #
muppetWrangler - Member

I think you should give him his £10 back regardless of the issue and set about putting it right for free.

You do not come across as being experienced enough to be charging people for your wheel building services, even if it only £10. Fair enough to do a few for friends to gain experience and then maybe once you've done a couple of dozen you could start to think about charging for them but right now all he's done is pay you to experiment on his wheel.

Posted 1 year ago #
baronspudulike - Member

It comes across that you aren't fully experienced with wheelbuilding and are gathering skills, you surely wouldn't charge a stranger to build wheels for them when you aren't all that experienced so it seems off charging a friend for the pleasure.
It doesn't sound like the spokes were properly stress relieved and re-tensioned over and over until it was no longer required so after a bit of riding it would only take a few spokes close to each other to loose tension, through settling into the new hub and un-twisting, and the wheel would be all over the place.
You could offer to have a go at truing the wheel, he is your friend after all, and offer him the £10 back so he can put it towards getting the wheel fixed by a professional.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

I have not experimented on his wheel in anyway at all. Concidering the wheels I built for myself I built up, trued, took apart, built up, trued about 4 times just to gain experience. I charged him because time aint free, I also took cassette and disc of the wheel put it on one of my spares(which he rode on for a week) and re fitted the cassette and disc etc. In all essence hes had the bloody job for free cos just fitting a cassette and disc at the bike shop would be a tenner.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

about the stress relieving the spokes, as already said I jumped on the rim numerous times, Also pushed the spokes together numerous times to relieve the stress, the spokes never got loose and the wheel always stayed true. I cant see how a bike shop would have done a better job.

Posted 1 year ago #
jimmyjames - Member

If you ask for people's opinions, don't be offended if they give them to you

Posted 1 year ago #
crispedwheel - Member

I cant see how a bike shop would have done a better job.

You are as good as any/every bike shop and wheel builder after building how many wheels?

baron's advice up there ^^ is pretty much right.

EDIT: and charging friends to build wheels? Hmm, either offer to do it because they're a friend, or recommend they take it to a wheel builder to do.

Posted 1 year ago #
epicyclo - Member

R.lepecha - Member
...I cant see how a bike shop would have done a better job.

There's a difference between knowing how to do a job and having the skill to do it properly.

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

Yes there is difference between knowing how to do it and having the skill to do it.

I knew and my parents knew I wouldnt give him the wheel if I didnt beleive it was correct myself, I spent about 3 hours building it, truing it, tensioning it, truing it, tensioning it, truing it. untill it was perfect.

You seem to give the view that I have little experience in building wheels, I dont but I know how to do it so I spent ages on that wheel using my know how so that it was correct and up to sufficient standard. Once you have some skill all they do is make the job faster and more efficient. Anyone could build a wheel up and true it if you gave them a whole day to do so, Thats if they could be bothered to tensions correct. Which I was bothered so I did spend the time on it.

Posted 1 year ago #
boblo - Member

Well done for trying to help your mate. £10 doesn't nearly cover the hassle/time so you might have saved yourself some grief by either not charging (so you don't feel obliged to sort now) or charging 'properly' so there'd be some contingency if things needed sorting post build.

You're committed now so sort it out unless you can demonstrate beyond doubt that it's down to materials. I very much doubt you can do that so you'll have to do the right thing and correct a job you've accepted payment for. Harsh lesson, but that's what happens when you accept commissions especially from friends.

Remember; 'a friend in need is a pain in the ar$e'!

Posted 1 year ago #
cheez0 - Member

give him his ten quid back, tell him to take it to a bike shop. You spent three hours truing? the hassle youre getting/got is not covered by ten quid.

Simples.

Posted 1 year ago #
timmys - Member

I've obviously missed something - what the hell have your parents got to do with it?!

Posted 1 year ago #
R.lepecha - Member

Because my parents know what Im like, They know I wouldnt give someone something if I thought it was wrong. I think from now on i'll just build/true my own wheels because I know theres bugger all wrong with how I build from my own wheels.

Posted 1 year ago #
Frankers - Member

I used to help a few mates out fixing their bikes for free but have now knocked it on the head as quite often a 30min job would take 2-3 hours, and quite often I was fitting new cables/brake pads but forgetting to be paid for them.

If any mates ask me now I always decline due to time limitations and ask them to take it to a LBS.

I have also built wheels for myself but don't consider myself an expert and would be too worried about come back to build some for a mate.

Posted 1 year ago #