I recently rebuilt my mates wheel because he broke the hub. After rebuilding I put pressure on the rim to seat the spokes properly.
I also checked all the spoke tensions by the hand check, all of them seemed tensioned sufficiently and were all quite even.

Now he has only just come to pick the wheel up and he had gone for a short ride then told me its badly knocked out already(rubbing on frame). I told him to bring it back up.

Now my question is, What do I do now. I charged 10 pound to build the wheel up(same spokes as before because using same model hub).

But I cant believe how he believes he was JRA when it knocked out, doesn’t seem feasible.

Any one else’s opinion?

Never do business with friends or family…..dont charge him, just ask him to get the beers in after your next ride!

You get some kind of “thanks” and it doesnt make things too formal, especially seeing as you cant point the finger about how his wheel got knocked out….

Just my take….

I already charged him beforehand, too young for beers after a ride….

Have you done it before ?

I’ve only built one wheel before, I got it to go straight but it would keep going out of line. I just couldnt get the spokes to tension evenly. To be honest I just did for a laugh so wasnt too surprised.

I took it shop to get it rebuilt properly and the guy there said it was nt bad for a first attempt and was surprised I want it rebuilt considering the cost. But I was doing a big ride in a couple of weeks so I wanted it perfect.

I’d be surprised if your first wheel went perfectly ? If its not your first wheel why would you be asking here ? To be honest I would nt have charged a mate to build a wheel unless I KNEW for sure I could do it right.

I built my own wheels before, they lasted 6 months without any adjustment before a crash at stainburn caused the front to knock out.

So I KNEW how to build them up correctly from past experience.

Plus all the spokes were tensioned evenly. He rode up and down my street numerous times to test the build, I even rode up and down on it trying to purposefully bend it. No luck.

Which is what I dont understand. How it rides fine one minute when I’m purposefully trying to put it out of true. Then the next minute when he’s JRA it knocks out. Coincidence?

Fair enough, but I can believe it went out of line just riding along and he is telling the truth.

From the sound of it you’ve built 3 wheels you did a good job on the first 2 and the third wheel you didnt do such a good job unfortunately.

Unless of course you mate has a tendency to 10 foot drops or something but you havent mentioned that.

Which is what I dont understand. How it rides fine one minute when I’m purposefully trying to put it out of true. Then the next minute when he’s JRA it knocks out. Coincidence?

This is exactly like the wheel I built. I needed more practise wheel building.

From the sound of it you’ve built 3 wheels you did a good job on the first 2 and the third wheel you didnt do such a good job unfortunately.

My own wheels I built were a worse job, spoke tension was uneven but they still stayed true. His build was so much better.

Just like to be clear Im not having a go.

I have no idea what your friend is like, maybe he’s a pathological liar and rides like a g*t, I dont know.

What your asking though is it possible that a wheel built by a amateur/beginner wheel builder who has built 3 wheels, to suddenly lose tension and go out of line, while just riding along.

The answer to this is most definitely yes in my experience.

Just because you rode it round the street a few times doesnt mean the spokes wont gradually losen.

If you knew you built them well, would you be asking?

I will see when he returns it back, If I believe its not a problem with how its built then I wont do any more work on it. And if hes not happy he can have the tenner back and he can send it in to a bike shop and pay 20 quid.

seems reasonable to me

If you knew you built them well, would you be asking?

I’m just asking whether or not you would carry out the extra work if you didn’t believe it was your problem.

A couple of thoughts from my 20ish wheels built experience:

1) Waaaaay easier to build onto a brand new rim, even if hub and spokes are not new.

2) Rlepecha, were your own wheels on new rims?

3) Was your mate’s wheel a handbuilt one or did it come on his bike? Unless you buy a really nice (read £800+ for hardtail) bike, the wheels will have been tensioned by a machine in a hurry and the tensions and stresses on the rim may have been all over the place on the original build. So even tensions may make it straight until the first really hard corner before the rim tries to go back to the shape it wants to be…

4) Do you squeeze the spokes as you go? In my experience this really helps. The wheelpro e-book explains this in great detail.

5) Were your rims you built for yourself a lot burlier than your mate’s? I find downhill rims vastly easier and quicker to get dead straight end really really tight than xc ones.

6) Oil your nipples! I leave mine in a little pot of 5wt oil or winter chain lube before I build. It’s messier and sounds counter-intuitive but like gresing your bolts, the lube gives you more reliable feedback from the spoke key, allows a tiny bit more tightness before they strt pinging and creaking, and mitigates a little against spokes ‘pinging’ out of tension.

1) agreed

2) Old rims

3) Machine, rim was straight by itself though

4) yes

5) weaker rims than his, much weaker.

Which just adds to my concern on why its all gone to pot. I did everything by the book so to speak.

Did you bed in the wheel properly?

Oh and does he ride much radder than you?

i can well imagine a wheel lasting less time under some of my mate’s cornering ‘habits’ than mine!

Did you bed in the wheel properly?

pressed all spokes while being rebuilt, then put on floor and jumped on the outer rim while suspended by the hub, did both sides. Did not budge a 1mm.

Oh and does he ride much radder than you?

i can well imagine a wheel lasting less time under some of my mate’s cornering ‘habits’ than mine! #

I would say I ride harder than him.

Did you bed in the wheel properly?

What’s that?
Sorry, being dumb, but I’m building some new rims onto existing wheels myself, so worth knowing!

read sheldon brown’s guide to wheel building ( online – google ). he recommended using a screwdriver or old crank ( or something ) to lever the spokes around a bit, then re-checking the trueness.
you should sort it for him FOC. should only take a few minutes. charge 15 quid next time – insurance against this sort of thing. 😉

jumped on the outer rim

? Are you serious ? Generally a strong firm push down does the trick.

exactly. I over tested it for that exact reason. If it could withstand my jumping on it then how the hell would you knock it out?

I will fix the problem if it has nothing to do with a stripped nipple etc, If it has a component problem I wont fix it as It would mean using my spares.

I think you should give him his £10 back regardless of the issue and set about putting it right for free.

You do not come across as being experienced enough to be charging people for your wheel building services, even if it only £10. Fair enough to do a few for friends to gain experience and then maybe once you’ve done a couple of dozen you could start to think about charging for them but right now all he’s done is pay you to experiment on his wheel.

It comes across that you aren’t fully experienced with wheelbuilding and are gathering skills, you surely wouldn’t charge a stranger to build wheels for them when you aren’t all that experienced so it seems off charging a friend for the pleasure.
It doesn’t sound like the spokes were properly stress relieved and re-tensioned over and over until it was no longer required so after a bit of riding it would only take a few spokes close to each other to loose tension, through settling into the new hub and un-twisting, and the wheel would be all over the place.
You could offer to have a go at truing the wheel, he is your friend after all, and offer him the £10 back so he can put it towards getting the wheel fixed by a professional.

I have not experimented on his wheel in anyway at all. Concidering the wheels I built for myself I built up, trued, took apart, built up, trued about 4 times just to gain experience. I charged him because time aint free, I also took cassette and disc of the wheel put it on one of my spares(which he rode on for a week) and re fitted the cassette and disc etc. In all essence hes had the bloody job for free cos just fitting a cassette and disc at the bike shop would be a tenner.

about the stress relieving the spokes, as already said I jumped on the rim numerous times, Also pushed the spokes together numerous times to relieve the stress, the spokes never got loose and the wheel always stayed true. I cant see how a bike shop would have done a better job.

If you ask for people’s opinions, don’t be offended if they give them to you 🙄

I cant see how a bike shop would have done a better job.

You are as good as any/every bike shop and wheel builder after building how many wheels?

baron’s advice up there ^^ is pretty much right.

EDIT: and charging friends to build wheels? Hmm, either offer to do it because they’re a friend, or recommend they take it to a wheel builder to do.

R.lepecha – Member
…I cant see how a bike shop would have done a better job.

There’s a difference between knowing how to do a job and having the skill to do it properly.

Yes there is difference between knowing how to do it and having the skill to do it.

I knew and my parents knew I wouldnt give him the wheel if I didnt beleive it was correct myself, I spent about 3 hours building it, truing it, tensioning it, truing it, tensioning it, truing it. untill it was perfect.

You seem to give the view that I have little experience in building wheels, I dont but I know how to do it so I spent ages on that wheel using my know how so that it was correct and up to sufficient standard. Once you have some skill all they do is make the job faster and more efficient. Anyone could build a wheel up and true it if you gave them a whole day to do so, Thats if they could be bothered to tensions correct. Which I was bothered so I did spend the time on it.

Well done for trying to help your mate. £10 doesn’t nearly cover the hassle/time so you might have saved yourself some grief by either not charging (so you don’t feel obliged to sort now) or charging ‘properly’ so there’d be some contingency if things needed sorting post build.

You’re committed now so sort it out unless you can demonstrate beyond doubt that it’s down to materials. I very much doubt you can do that so you’ll have to do the right thing and correct a job you’ve accepted payment for. Harsh lesson, but that’s what happens when you accept commissions especially from friends.

Remember; ‘a friend in need is a pain in the ar$e’! 🙂

give him his ten quid back, tell him to take it to a bike shop. You spent three hours truing? the hassle youre getting/got is not covered by ten quid.

Simples.

I’ve obviously missed something – what the hell have your parents got to do with it?!

Because my parents know what Im like, They know I wouldnt give someone something if I thought it was wrong. I think from now on i’ll just build/true my own wheels because I know theres bugger all wrong with how I build from my own wheels.

I used to help a few mates out fixing their bikes for free but have now knocked it on the head as quite often a 30min job would take 2-3 hours, and quite often I was fitting new cables/brake pads but forgetting to be paid for them.

If any mates ask me now I always decline due to time limitations and ask them to take it to a LBS.

I have also built wheels for myself but don’t consider myself an expert and would be too worried about come back to build some for a mate.

I think everyone here has tried, albeit in a gentle and sensitive way, to help you understand the basic principles behind being paid for providing a service. Your responses are fairly typical of a young person, but no less annoying. So I’d suggest the following;

You were paid for a job. Your job wasn’t good enough. Regardless as to whether your mate was out on the trail, or just bobbing along the road, the wheel went out of kilter just after you built it for him. If the same happened in a shop I’d be back like a shot. If you want to play at being a wheel builder, don’t take money for it and fiddle around with your own wheels, not putting others at risk with your ego.

Why are you looking everywhere else for an explanation? Why not start with yourself; did you make any mistakes? Is there anything you’ve overlooked? The bottom line is that in receiving payment you become a service provider, so you are accountable for the quality of your work. I’ve been teaching long enough to know that kids like you simply don’t have the ability to self-assess – you look for other variables as an excuse. Do you really believe that it couldn’t possibly be your fault? Honestly?

And what’s all this ‘parents’ crap? Are you kidding? Seriously? Are you going to wheel that one out whenever you screw up in the future – “…Er, yeah, the car crash couldn’t possibly have been my fault because my parents wouldn’t let me take the car out if they thought I’d prang it…” You sound like Vicky Pollard. Man up.

Give your mate his money back. Let him take his wheel to someone who’s paid to do it and good at it. Learn from experience.

EDIT:

I realise this sounds harsh, but sugar-coating the facts will not help you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. I’m off to shout at some year 10’s…

Bullheart=less coffee for you in the staff room young man 🙂

It’s beyond giving the money back now IMO. Strictly speaking, he’s contracted to do the job and should make good the mess so far….

Bailing out because it’s getting too difficult is not an option. Perhaps Mummy could help as she’s such an authority on wheel building? 🙂

That last bit was just messing but sort it out, he’s a friend remember?

Bottom line – get more experience before you start charging for your services…. and don’t charge your friends for building!

Whenever I have built some wheels for friends, we actually sat down together and went through the process as they wanted to start learning…

I’m far from an expert, but all it takes is one gentle push in the right direction, and people gain the confidence to try building themselves.

I charged him because time aint free

So you don’t mind if we each charge you £2 for the free advice then? Do you also charge your gf for a quickie? 😆

Here’s some more free advice: Reconsider your mercenary attitude to life. Give your time and help to friends and family for free. Give him his money back and apologise.

Re-using old spokes rarely works. They lose tension and snap for more easily than new ones.

(But if it’s gone out so badly out that it’s rubbing on the frame already than either he’s had a huge crash (hint – does he have blood all over his face) or the build wasn’t up to scratch… Sorry.)