http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/australia-apartheid-alive-aboriginal-history

You’re calling me and by extension one of the greatest journalists of all time a child?

Seriously, how old are you Tom?

Oh the irony 😆

Tom I’m a white South African and I’m not liking your tone, you are generalising and pissing me off. What are you trying to say?

I’ve seen more mature debate in the comments section of YouTube

Really Pigface, he comes across as the new Adrian Mole…

I assume Tom knows nothing about apartheid or Australia, or who I talk to and about what.

What was a good discussion has now turned pretty petty guys.
I’m off to look a pictures of cats

Go on Zokes, tell us all…in a mature way…. how John freaking Pilger is wrong and in actual fact a child.

Really Pigface, he comes across as the new Adrian Mole…

At least Adrian Mole had some knowledge of world politics

At least Adrian Mole had some knowledge of world politics

You keep saying things like this, without ever actually mounting a credible defense of Australia’s ongoing treatment of its indigenous population.

mikewsmith – Member
grum, just repeating what happens if I get involved in a discussion on brit politics, people play the man when they can’t play the argument. It’s exactly what has been said in the past.

mikewsmith – Member

Seriously, how old are you Tom?

mikewsmith – Member
Really Pigface, he comes across as the new Adrian Mole…

It’s moving along, it’s improving, we are heading towards major constitutional change on the issues. But you know all that

Mike/zokes. Have you read the Pilger article yet? Or anything else by him (or others) about Australian racism and treatment of the aborigines etc? Or do you just not really care?

That constitutional change that has been described as

Michael Anderson, leader of the Euahlayi Peoples, suggests that “the real hidden agenda of the proposed referendum [for constitutional recognition] is to coerce Aboriginal Nations and Peoples to become part of the Australian Constitution and by doing so consent to be governed. The Commonwealth government can then claim that Aboriginal Nations and Peoples have acquiesced. This is the main weapon the Crown has to counter our sovereignty movement.” [11]

Don’t look here, just some casual racism from the British PM, and British cycle forum posters seem to agree with him… The country must be full of racists.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/swarm-in-a-tea-cup

Whataboutery in its purest form.

Tom, mate. I’d love to read your articles that you Googled to prove your point, but I’m too busy being a Brit, living in Oz and actually speaking to real people. My opinion is something that gets formed as life happens, rather than by what I’ve read that day.

Yes, this country’s not without faults and yes I do see racism in different forms – on my first day here I heard a group of white guys make monkey sounds as a black guy left the pub. Really. Same as growing up in Buckinghamshire, working night shift in a factory, the shift leader instructed me to watch out for ‘the dodgy p*kis’. Same as living in Croydon when my landlord hated ‘all them foreign ****s’. Same as living in Aberdeen when a lot of Scots hated all those English w*nkers, Same as living in Copenhagenm when local Danes viewed all immigrants, mainly Turks, with massive distrust – despite relying on them to do all the jobs they wouldn’t do themselves. My point? Take a limited sample, extrapolate far enough and you’ll create the evidence to prove your point. My recommendatoion would be to get out a bit, chat to real people and form opinions based on real life.

Yes, this country’s not without faults and yes I do see racism in different forms – on my first day here I heard a group of white guys make monkey sounds as a black guy left the pub. Really. Same as growing up in Buckinghamshire

Yes, why challenge your beliefs?

Tom, mate. I’d love to read your articles that you Googled to prove your point, but I’m too busy being a Brit, living in Oz and actually speaking to real people. My opinion is something that gets formed as life happens, rather than by what I’ve read that day.

So you’re saying that Australian attitudes on race are similar to our attitudes 30 years ago? Sounds about right.

Tom, mate. I’d love to read your articles that you Googled to prove your point, but I’m too busy being a Brit, living in Oz and actually speaking to real people. My opinion is something that gets formed as life happens, rather than by what I’ve read that day.

Yeah, my opinion is just based on being married to an Asian who lived in Australia for a bit – as opposed to a white boys experience of living in Australia.

But yes, your experience is totally based on your life – which being white is probably a very cushy one in Aussie land.

Did anyone say 30 years ago, seen that level of racism a lot more recently in the UK and heard it too. It’s not defending Aus as being better/worse than UK but that extrapolating AFL is like using crap football games as a valid sample of the population.

Apart from I’m not sure what you mean… IS your friend back on Oz? What is their experience back here over their perception.

yes been back around 2 years now, being a cyclist he’s noticed the differing attitude to cyclists too, if you think it’s bad over here!

it’s not about perception but real experience having grown up in aus and then spent 10 years in london.

Did anyone say 30 years ago, seen that level of racism a lot more recently in the UK and heard it too. It’s not defending Aus as being better/worse than UK but that extrapolating AFL is like using crap football games as a valid sample of the population.

Really? I haven’t, so perhaps we can agree that the plural of anecdotes is not data. The reaction to Goodes is however a matter of record, as is the historic and ongoing mistreatment of aborigines. There’s an excellent article on it linked earlier in this thread.

If you seriously don’t think australia as a nation has a big problem in the way it treats indigenous people you are living with your head stuck up your arse

There’s an excellent article on it linked earlier in this thread.

They clearly can’t be arsed/don’t want to hear anything that challenges their cosy little perception that there’s no problem with racism in Australia.

If you seriously don’t think australia as a nation has a big problem in the way it treats indigenous people you are living with your head stuck up your arse

This.

My opinion is something that gets formed as life happens, rather than by what I’ve read that day.

You mean you like to rely on your own biases and subjective experience as a white westerner, rather than looking at actual evidence. Sounds about right.

Really? I haven’t, so perhaps we can agree that the plural of anecdotes is not data.

Me neither. Perhaps it depends who you choose to hang out with.

OK, I’ve read the article I accept that Australia has issues, so does the entire of Europe. Branding Australia as all racist doesn’t work, the bollox about prime ministers that I challenged is BS too. There is a tide of change here, it’s happening, also the nation that is Australia is built from hundreds of nations and cultures it’s a diverse place. The historic treatment of the first nation is poor, going forward things can be better but we are talking about it. It’s progress.

Passing it off as historic treatment and describing it simply as ‘poor’, as well as your persistent whataboutery, just shows you are part of the problem frankly.

And FFS for the millionth time no-one has at any point said that all Australians are racist. *sigh*

The historic treatment of the first nation is poor, going forward things can be better but we are talking about it. It’s progress.

Talking about it includes calling out racists for abusing Goodes, rather than defending them.

OK, I’ve read the article I accept that Australia has issues, so does the entire of Europe. Branding Australia as all racist doesn’t work, the bollox about prime ministers that I challenged is BS too.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not particularly a fan of “we have a hard on for Marine Le Pen” France either.

really, I’ve been reading.
Am I really part of the problem? What have I done? The extrapolation of AFL to the rest of the population is a very big oversight though.

The extrapolation of AFL to the rest of the population is a very big oversight though.

And FFS for the millionth time no-one has at any point said that all Australians are racist. *sigh*

Talking about it includes calling out racists for abusing Goodes, rather than defending them.

I’m very happy that people are calling out the racists, it’s a good thing it’s also progress.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not particularly a fan of “we have a hard on for Marine Le Pen” France either.

What exactly are you on about? The reason I called you on your age is that you sound like a typical student/adrian mole type who has read a little and experienced nothing.

You were engaging in whatabouttery again by mentioning that the rest of Europe has a problem with racism.

Why would you do that? Also, I’ve got plenty of experience actually seeing the world through the eyes of someone who isn’t white.

What exactly are you on about? The reason I called you on your age is that you sound like a typical student/adrian mole type who has read a little and experienced nothing.

Your arguments aren’t getting any stronger…

really, I’ve been reading. Am I really part of the problem? What have I done?

Persistently denying the scale and reality of the issue. I think I’d call mass child kidnap, land/resource grabs, mass murder, huge discrimination in access to healthcare and education and being classified as flora and fauna as a bit worse than ‘poor’, and some of it is still going on right now.

And all the whataboutery is just pathetic. Yes bits of Europe have a huge problem with racism against gypsies – but rather than talking about it or trying to challenge it presumably we should either pretend it’s not happening, pretend it’s not important, or just say ‘well it’s not as bad as apartheid South Africa’ or ‘yes but what about treatment of Indians in Bahrain?’ It’s a truly dire line of argument.

And FFS for the millionth time no-one has at any point said that all Australians are racist. *sigh*

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Pigface – Member
What a surprise
They really are a rum lot down under.

Tom_W1987 – Member
Doesn’t surprise me, if you walk into a bar full of white people in South East Asia – the loudest most obnoxious idiot in the room is always an Aussie.

Persistently denying the scale and reality of the issue. I think I’d call mass child kidnap, land/resource grabs, mass murder, huge discrimination in access to healthcare and education as a bit worse than ‘poor’, and some of it is still going on right now.

Right nobody is disputing history, history happened it’s also history. Now and the future matters.

Right nobody is disputing history, history happened it’s also history. Now and the future matters.

So you’ll agree that as “some of it is still going on right now” then Australia has a bit of a problem, no?.

That sentence doesn’t imply I think that all Aussies are racist, it’s just that all the ones I’ve bumped into round that way are dirty bogans with colonial god complexes who pay to bang 14 year old girls then laugh about it and call the locals “flips” (**** little island people).

You’re clutching at straws there mike. And if you really can’t see why the history matters then yes you are absolutely part of the problem. I’ve lost a lot of respect for you today tbh.

Australia has some problems, the scale of which is being overplayed in many ways it’s also comparable to how much of a **** the average European is when allowed out of their country or at home. I don’t object to pointing stuff out, but there is a lot of overplaying going on

That sentence doesn’t imply I think that all Aussies are racist, it’s just that all the ones I’ve bumped into round that way are dirty bogans with colonial god complexes who pay to bang 14 year old girls.

Sounds like most brits on holiday…..

Back in 2002 I was hitchhiking through Western Australia.
After waiting on the roadside for several hours a half clapped out car full of five black fellas pulled up.
I wasn’t keen on jumping in, one reason being it would be rather cramped. No bother they said, besides it was hot and few cars passed through.

one guy moved himself onto the centre console up front. I squeezed myself between two fellas on the rear seat.
I was offered a beer from esky and chatted to the three guys that could speak some English. Was asked if I could play pool as we pulled up outside a roadhouse.

Big building. There was a pool table at the end of the room, a bar made from Jarrah wood. I walked to the bar as the five fellas called me into a small breeze block add-on. In this white washed room was an old table that had seen better days and a small hatch where you could order drinks.
One guy waited at the hatch to be served. You could see the waitress chatting to one of the truckers. After maybe 3 minutes of waiting this fella went around to the main bar only to be told to get back to where he came from (meaning the breeze block room) otherwise he wouldn’t be served at all. The look on the fellas face said it all… Anger and sadness.

I felt like shit.

These guys had looked out for me and treated me as a friend, yet one of me had treated him like a c-u-next-Tuesday.

I bought and paid for their beers and made a point of ordering at the main bar. I got some right funny looks from the other patrons.

Another time, a guy (white, from Melbourne) gave me a lift for four days through NT. Nice guy, looked after me and we got on well. At one point we passed an aboriginal settlement that had been set up by the government. His tone changed as he showed me the abandoned buildings and burnt out cars. I wouldn’t say he was racist,just pissed at the money that had been spent and blown.

Also remember the time some guy stopped for me in his ute. Out steps this big black guy almost as wide as he was tall. This was the first time I had any real contact with an aborigine other than being pestered for a dollar. He was cool as ****. Was on his way north to see family after having been on trawler for the past few months. “wanna Cola?” as he opened the esky shoved between the seats. Inside was stuffed full of Jim Bean and Cola cans. “do you smoke?” he asked as he flipped down the glove box to reveal a massive bag of weed.
The next eight or more hours were spent in a bit of a haze exchanging stories and him telling me about growing up in the bush.

Yes, I would say Australians are more racist, at least openly so, than Brits and indeed even Germans.