It’s been a while since I’ve been for a ride here, too long. One of my last rides was probably during my pre-training for the SDW which we done in September.
Since then, the weather has been terrible and constantly wet so I haven’t been back for a while.

I knew it would be wet and soft today since it has rained a few times already this week but the conditions of the trails are probably the worst I’ve seen.

The first climb was a constant struggle with the wheel spinning through thick mud and then coming to abrupt stops on the roots, etc.

I didn’t even bother with the next section as it’s normally only ever worth doing when the ground is firm.

Anyway, I end up doing Brow Barrow Climb and the new singletrack section. Normally you can blast it through the singletrack but even this had to be taken fairly gingerly.

Eventually I get round to Snakebites and even this appears to have been torn up pretty bad. In fact, the only decent part of the ride was the Final Decent.

So the point of this post? Why are people so concerned about leaving QECP a natural trail rather than gradually converting it to an all-weather trail with hardcore sections?

When it rains for a few days, its not really much fun to ride and only ends up getting churned up worse than what it already is.

Unless its dry and firm, I dont think I’ll bother next time and make better use of my time doing a South Downs loop.

Money , time , money , time mostly.
The build up there is all voluntary ( i have helped ) All materials either come from the park itself ie the wood . Anything else is donated or bought by someone with a passion for making it better.
Its possibly the worst substrate for long term trails , chalk base with loam on top.
The build is new , and work will be done to aid drainage . The tens of thousands of pounds to hard surface the trail is not available.

Yes… the surfacing is done by hand with chalk we dig out of the ground. We’ll be doing more of this over the next few weeks to sort out the worst bits – volunteers welcome. My recommendation is XR Muds!

You take to conditions as they come sonny, simple really.

It’s not like it ain’t been raining for sometime now is it. Shame you didn’t like it, but that’s not the guys who put the effort in to make it what it is’s fault is it.

Come back in the Spring.

I think some may have taken this the wrong way. I think the collective do an awesome job in maintaining and adding to the excisting trails.

Its just a shame that the good work is spoilt when the trails are ridden when the ground is too soft.

Just sharing my experience, not really complaining. I enjoy the park as much as the next person…

When its that bad I wouldn’t bother riding as all you are doing is causing damage for no gain.

TheBrick – I agree. Thats why I haven’t ridden it since last year…

Then why ride it today when you know damn well its in poor condition and then bitch about it on here after helping to cause more deteriation…….

Must admit I was thinking the same…..

To be honest where isn’t like that at the mo, forests and the like?

Well since I haven’t ridden it since last year and wouldn’t normally ride it in poor conditions, so I wouldn’t really call myself a major contributor to any long term damage that is being caused.

I just thought the place would vastly benefit from a bit of all-weather hardcore. I fully appreciate this comes down to funding.

How many build days have you been on?

I work most weekends. How many dig days do you hold during the week?

Yeah, the park does suffer in the winter, and with the popularity of the new trail, its getting very tough going. I’m all for surfacing some sections and am in discussions with other members. As has been said, we are all volunteers and dont have big budgets to go on.
I had a bl**dy great ride up there tonight though 🙂

Donations are greatly appreciated and are possible through the website http://qecptrailcollective.co.uk or through the donation box at the cafe.

I’m in the sme boat regarding working weekends. I have on occasion done some leaf clearing and puddle draining when out with the dog. To be honest i have only ridden QECP 3 or 4 times this year as it’s so muddy I don’t want to be responsible for helping to trash the trails.
The weather has been so consistantly bad they are really hard work and only the last descent is anything approching what I’d call fun, especially as I’m on a singlespeed.

just got back from 5 hour ride there with superfli and a few others, it’s great if you go with right people and right attitude.. snow, rain, low cloud, worst conditions ever there. but yeah i understand, would usually avoid it over winter.

we will be patching it up come spring, no point right now as without much more budget and manpower, it’ll get trashed again so there’s better things for us to work on for now (tba 😉 )

not all areas are bad, if you know where to look usually one side of the park is dry, and the old trails with hard chalk surface are also ok when really wet.

i got up first climb tonight in dark and snow and even got some ok strava times so not sure it’s that bad, it’s all about expectations i guess, yeah it’s nothing like summer.

look at QE winter as a challenge/skills thing.. as Scott said if you can do it now, you can do anywhere, and come summer you’ll be flying there 🙂

btw afaik none of us care about damage riding it wet, put on your spikiest tires and go for it.

btw don’t put really big spikes like trailrakers they don’t work so good there – MudX, Minion etc soft big rubber is better. wear pads and learn to drift. and we do care, but it’s better you ride it AND come help patch it up later please. if you don’t enjoy that sort of riding, you’ll have to go where it’s sandy like towards Rogate/Bordon/Midhurst/Haslemere/Guildford or i dunno, Cwmcarn?. complete resurfacing for red trail won’t happen in foreseeable future, for blue should be if/when that’s sorted out.. fingers crossed.

just got back from 5 hour ride there with superfli and a few others, it’s great if you go with right people and right attitude.. snow, rain, low cloud, worst conditions ever there. but yeah i understand, would usually avoid it over winter.

This, we never ride the red route in the winter(Apart from the final descent) Just like we didn’t ride the orange in the winter, its always been bad.

Smiff was a great ride last night. Really had some fun, it was hard to lead in the fog though, I had a couple of times when I though am I still on the trail. 😀 Anyway top ride with some top guys.

look at QE winter as a challenge/skills thing.. as Scott said if you can do it now, you can do anywhere, and come summer you’ll be flying there

8)

Thank for all the support that everyone has given over that past 16 months (When we started) Its doesn’t matter if people have time to dig or not just spreading the word about what we are trying to achieve is enough, From the start we wanted to be mountain bike trails for mountain bikers, and we want to include everyone that why we chose collective in the name.

How many dig days do you hold during the week?

We sometimes go up of fridays to clear puddle and leaves out of berm. But every time i have posted them up there has been not takers so don’t bother now. But if your onyour way round and a bike puddle has formed free to drain it with a big stick or something 😉

———–

One of the hardest things was to get the park management to trust us, it was frosty to say the least between biker and them at the start. Now it’s great, they are really impressed with how the local mountain bike community have rally round. The trails are for all of us and if anyone wants to help out big or small, then it will be great for the trails and the local seine in general.

Sorry for the essay guy 😳

Final bit THE PLUG, A way everyone can help this year is spread the word about the QECP Gravity Enduro we are having (12st July) and the DH race on 1st & 2nd June. The gravity enduro will be run by us and all the money raised will be going back in to future trail work and materials.

Also the QEcyclefest 18th & 19th (Not that we have much to do with it) Its Hargrove’s cycles that run it.

I would like to add a non emotionally attached opinion to this thread from someone who ain’t bringing ‘feelings’ into replys.

Benmoto simply described some conditions, asked a perfectly valid question and then passed on his findings of sustainability when riding the trail through bad weather.

From there, certain indvuduals have had a go at him for riding it in the first place even though that’s his only real way of finding out for himself what conditions are like. Then, when he asks about the reasoning behind not going for a trail centre surface people start busting his balls!

‘Don’t ride it when you know damm well it’s in poor condition and then bitch’

‘How many build days have you been on?’

Did you not read what he said? Even when he tried to explain himself and complemented you on the work you had put in you still carry on? Listening to feedback fellas is the way we constantly improve. I was always taught in my line of work that if you receive 1 question or more after undertaking a task then there may be room for improvement. I reckon Rowen Sorrell must think the same as places like Llandegla are constantly changing.

Give the bloke a break.

Give the bloke a break.

enerallevi that’s what I was trying to do with my post. Constructive comments are great the keep us all pointed in the right direction.

Benmotogp46 OP just shows he is interested in the future of the trails in the park, and surfacing is a big part of that. It will all take time and if anyone wants to chat about poss plans and project, I’m more than happy to go out for a ride and have a chat or I will be at the QEcycleFEST at the QECP Trail collective stand, happy to chat and try and answer any questions.

There’s the same issue with the woodland near me at Stanmer.

It’s maintained by enthusiasts (not me) and ridden by them all year round, regardless of ground conditions.

I tend to avoid it when I know it’s been wet (so most of last year…) as I know it’ll a) be churned up and b) I’ll just contribute whilst not enjoying it.

However, they’re not ‘my’ trails so who am I to stop them and there’s lots of other stuff about that probably gets ignored becase these are available and well known.

Last thing I’d want is them beign changed into anythign all weather – it would spoil them for the 2 weeks every September when they’re riding perfectly.

…alternatively you could just mtfu! 😉

just mtfu

I guess, I ride woodland singletrack because I enjoy whizzing in and out of trees and pinging off roots.

When you’re just following someone elses churned up rut and you’ve got 6lb of finest Sussex clag stuck to your wheels and frame it loses a lot of its appeal.

@Scottifitz

In all honestly mate my reply was not aimed at you. Your reply was constructive and well worded. It was with the earlier ones that I highlighted and felt brought nothing to the discussion other that antagonising comments that were placed even after the Op complimented the teams work.

I did also used to live nr Qe2 Park and used to ride there often so while I am not emotionally attached I still know the area you guys are referring to.

All the best,

Lee.

I agree, the OP ws stating a fact rather than bitching at/about anyone. he’s right too when it comes to the waymarked trail.
Mind you, people mention avoiding the Red Route or that they’ve just had a 5 hr ride in other dryer bits of the park. Which bits are they then? My understanding was that there weren’t that many trails we were allowed on & I’ve avoided exploring for fear of jepordising the sanctioned stuff. If people who are hevily involved in the trailbuilding are riding off piste regularly does that meaan I can too?….

@Scottifitz

In all honestly mate my reply was not aimed at you. Your reply was constructive and well worded. It was with the earlier ones that I highlighted and felt brought nothing to the discussion other that antagonising comments that were placed even after the Op complimented the teams work.

I did also used to live nr Qe2 Park and used to ride there often so while I am not emotionally attached I still know the area you guys are referring to.

All the best,

Lee.

Yep that’s why i thought i would post to defuse it a bit.

When i was reading it from the top i though it was all a bit silly when at the end of the day we all want the same thing, better trails and more of them.

I still can’t believe what start as a bit of tidy up the trails at the park has lead to where we are at today and how bright to future look if we all stick together.

And as a bonus meeting some great guys(and a couple of gals) along the way. Smiff Being one 😉

Well said Scott!

General horrible heavy clag conditions sound like the Chilterns have been pretty much since October 2011. I can’t remember the last time I got much above jogging pace around here, but I have given up hoping for a “summer”.

“summer”.

😯 what is this you speak of? 😕

mattbee, benmotogp46 – http://kingleyvalemountainbikers.ning.com/ – You can meet up for rides and find out what’s good, bad and indifferent locally.

As Scott says we want everyone to enjoy their riding. If you can help with digging, even just the odd couple of hours, then that’s great… but come and ride whatever. The reward for us is that the Park are helping us build the types of trails that we want to ride. The more people come and ride our trails the better it is for the Park, and the better it is for mountain biking in the Park. So come and ride – and buy cake!

I would be interested to know what those of you who put all this great work into these trails think of them being used when the conditions are like they are presently. Are you happy for them to get “trashed” in the winter or would you rather people stayed away? Do you see the damage caused by riding in the gloop as sustainable – i.e. have you noticed if it “fixes itself” once dry or does it just continue to erode without intervention?

I have to say I stay away in the winter unless in a dry spell – that’s partly because I don’t think its much fun but also because I’ve always percieved using it in these conditions counter productive to enjoying it in the summer.

Once a trail is built, unless the owners close the trail, then its going to get ridden. Some people like to ride all year round. If the trail breaks up or gets overly muddy then it needs more weatherproofing.
I dont think any of the qecp collective mind the trail being ridden, in fact most will ride it themselves, but may find better alternatives elsewhere.

like the Chilterns have been pretty much since October 2011. I can’t remember the last time I got much above jogging pace around here, but I have given up hoping for a “summer”.

There was that one week in September 2012… didn’t last though.

just a heads up (fnar fnar) BBC Stargazing Live is filming in QE this Sat 16th 5pm. they probably wouldn’t appreciate our massive lights so maybe don’t ride Sat night if anyone was going to.
weather just came good so they might be in luck, forecast is all dry for next week.
my experience is it’s actually worse to ride while drying out, then it gets real good 🙂 the trails kinda fix themselves it’s just trying to get drainage to work that’s the battle..
autumn and spring last year were both good, you’ll see tons of strava times were sept. and may.

I would be interested to know what those of you who put all this great work into these trails think of them being used when the conditions are like they are presently. Are you happy for them to get “trashed” in the winter or would you rather people stayed away? Do you see the damage caused by riding in the gloop as sustainable – i.e. have you noticed if it “fixes itself” once dry or does it just continue to erode without intervention?

Red Trail

That trails at qe need to be ridden, the muddier trail
are the newer ones or flat ones, The ones that are best are the chalky ones. so the process we have been using is. It gets muddy, scrap of the mad and this is done eventually we get down to the hard chalk base (Like final descent) This is not a fast prosses but we can have trail with natural feel that don’t get “too” muddy. The worst bits we will take the mud out and fill with chalk or rock (we have a stash of limestone donate form someone’s rockery). This is the general plan for the red trail, I’m sure there will be areas we will use a bit of imported scalping(bits we can’t fix will local or donated materials)

Blue Trail

We are going throw the planning stages with FC, HCC, CTC and collective about scraping the purple family trail and putting in a blue grade trail. this will be 80% imported scalping, all year around trail. BUT and its a big but it is only at the planning stage and will require lots of money/investment. Watch this space. It properly would not be started till next winter. lead on t the next bit.

so till next winter we will be working on the red and setting up for our two races in June and July.

I agree, the OP ws stating a fact rather than bitching at/about anyone. he’s right too when it comes to the waymarked trail.
Mind you, people mention avoiding the Red Route or that they’ve just had a 5 hr ride in other dryer bits of the park. Which bits are they then? My understanding was that there weren’t that many trails we were allowed on & I’ve avoided exploring for fear of jeopardising the sanctioned stuff. If people who are hevily involved in the trailbuilding are riding off piste regularly does that meaan I can too?….

Sorry mate I missed you post first time round, Smiff’s 5h ride included His ride to and from petersfield and about 2 to 3 hours with us in and out of the park.

It was at night and only we were the only user in the park. probably spent most of the in the park climbing up fireroad and then bits of the red and purple and a couple of other new bits that aren’t open to the public yet. I don’t like spending so much time climbing up fire road but it’s not muddy and not many users.

The rest of the time was spent outside of the park on other trails. Hope this answers you question. Sorry if the answer all over the place 😕

If anyone is intersted its a digweekend at QE this Weekend: http://www.qecptrailcollective.co.uk/2013/02/qecp-dig-weekend-23rd-24th-feb/

^ that guy in front of the camera – he’s famous! 😉 he’s on this month’s What Mountain Bike.

Scott i might have to do what Rups did last dig and take someone round a bit hope that’s ok 😳 maybe stop and dig a bit too ‘cos he’ll be pretty unfit.

Scott i might have to do what Rups did last dig and take someone round a bit hope that’s ok maybe stop and dig a bit too ‘cos he’ll be pretty unfit.

Sounds good mate, you riding this wednesday night?

if you’re at QE i might. conditions should be a bit better 8)

Yep 6.30 main car park again. No mud 100% guaranteed* 🙂

*That’s Not Mud