PSA for the public sector workers

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PSA for the public sector workers

31 posts & 19 voices | Started 2 years ago by Stu_N | Latest reply from crikey

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Stu_N - Member

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/horrible-dragon-threatens-council-worker-fantasy-land-201003012514/

HORRIBLE DRAGON THREATENS COUNCIL WORKER FANTASY LAND

A LARGE, terrifying dragon is threatening the magical kingdom of massive pensions where no-one ever gets fired.

'Let us cheer ourselves with the Tale of the Massive Golden Pension'
The fearful citizens of Council Worker Fantasy Land say they will surely be burned to a crisp by the fire breathing monster unless they receive urgent anti-dragon money from the people of the Real World that exists beyond the buttercup meadow and the four star country house hotel where the magical training days are held.

Since 1997 Council Worker Fantasy Land has been the happiest place in the world, where grade two fairytale princesses and thousands of badly educated left-wing elves live happily alongside magical dwarves who are not allowed to move your wheelie bin more than 38.3cm.

But now the fearsome dragon that has eaten more 300,000 townsfolk who actually had to work for a living, could ravage the blissful community and its enchanted ability to tell other people what to do.

Roy Hobbs, the £225,000 a year chief executive of Council Worker Fantasy Land, said: "Help us o good and generous people of the realm where bad decisions have actual consequences.

"We have spent all our money on magical diversity training and surely now the dragon will eat many thousands of us for his tea, which by the way does not contain five portions of fruit or vegetables and leads us to question his ability to raise young dragons."

Helen Archer, a gay and bisexual outreach princess from Doncaster, said: "Good sir, I am most terribly afraid the great dragon will use his massive talons to claw at my seven weeks of enchanted holiday entitlement and force me to justify my magical existence.

"Forsooth I shall have to leave this realm and travel beyond the chestnut wood and the babbling brook and end up working for Carphone Warehouse."

She added: "And by the way, every time you smoke a bewitched tobacco stick in a tavern doorway an enchanted pixie dies of fairy cancer."

Posted 2 years ago #
thegreatape - Member

What do people include in the catch all 'public sector workers', nurses, doctors, firemen etc?

Posted 2 years ago #
stuartie_c - Member

Legitimate concerns, I feel.

Posted 2 years ago #
brakes - Member

public sector workers = those paid for with public money

Posted 2 years ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

YOu mean public servants. Those that look after the poor the sick and the helpless.

Posted 2 years ago #
soulwood - Member

When the private sector was making obscene profits (from a large proportion of people who rely on public sector services) nobody was interested in the public sector. There is a reason there is a public sector, there is NO profit to be made in it so the private sector don't give a damn about it. There is NO profit in caring for mentally ill people, NO profit in trying to house dysfunctional children who often go onto lead lives of drug abuse and prostitution, NO profit in nursing, policing, fire service, the list goes on. People are now quick to point fingers at the public sector as they feel some kind of jealousy, but they certainly wouldnt want to do the work the public sector does. Cheap journalism for blinkered people.

Posted 2 years ago #
user-removed - Member

YOu mean public servants. Those that look after the poor the sick and the helpless.

And also the post beneath TJ's. Yes, valid points. However... My student job was an attendent at a local (council run) dry ski slope and I have to say, never in my life have I seen such utter wastefulness. We bought useless stuff daily in an effort to appease the H&S conscious middle management - trollies to carry tiny-wee generators over three metres of wet grass, in case we slipped and sued....

Every other day we received huge boxes of expensively printed literature telling us how amazing our local council was, how well it was performing, Oh! And look at this total non-entity employee of the month!! And these poorly taken photos of the Mayor's Ball (during which YOUR taxes fed a bunch of overweight, pissed up leeches).

You get the picture.

The centre was / is massively overstaffed - cuts would be welcomed by the few good staff who actually give a toss.

LOLed at the daily mash!

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

When the private sector was making obscene profits (from a large proportion of people who rely on public sector services) nobody was interested in the public sector.

ah. That'd be the same public sector that has been paid a consistently higher median wage than the median private sector employee for oh, the last 20 years then....

and also got the perks of the pension swindle to "compensate" for the grim sufferance of being paid more than their private sector contemporaries as well...

source: ONS ASHE report.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statBase/product.asp?vlnk=13101

Posted 2 years ago #
dangerousbeans - Member

stoner,

as you probably know that comparison has already been considered flawed as it includes all levels of employee in the private sector to include the lowest paid unskilled workers, but only used the skilled workers in the public sector.

Also, tax credits allows private employers to pay poorly, knowing that the tax payer will pick up the difference.

I know that things must change in the system but working on pulling others down until they're all equal seems an odd way to do it to me.

Surely we should look at improving private sector wages and conditions NOT reducing public sector benefits.

Posted 2 years ago #
miketually - Member

That'd be the same public sector that has been paid a consistently higher median wage than the median private sector employee for oh, the last 20 years then....

Is that comparing like for like jobs though? Does a council cleaner get paid more than a private sector cleaner?

People in the private sector are able to apply for public sector jobs if they feel so hard done to in the private sector

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

db - Dear Polly's attack on the figures has been shredded in the guardian too. Where she has made supposition, someone has actually bothered to analyse the data to check the merits of her rantings and her woolly approach to statistics has fallen down.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jul/08/public-sector-pay-gap

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

People in any poorly paid jobs are able to apply for better paid jobs if they feel so hard done to in a free market

Now, you see Id get in trouble for saying such things mike

Posted 2 years ago #
dangerousbeans - Member

What I was trying to say, in my bumbling early morning way, was that the bare stats do not compare like with like.

And it was actually that Guardian article I was thinking of

Especially this bit-

While it did show just 10.3% of the private sector in professional occupations against 22.5% in the public sector, 17.1% of private sector staff were managers and senior officials against just 8% in the public sector. Beyond that, just 2.2% of the public sector works in skilled trades against 13.6% of the private sector. Many skilled tradesmen have skills that are just as valuable as those held by a middle manager.

As a nurse I think my pay is ok but nothing spectacular, but I don't only do it for the pay.

My previous job was relatively unskilled (dirty and dangerous)but lads I worked with earn about £14k per year more than me now.

Job satisfaction does go a long way and I try, every single day, to do the best I can and look after people to the best of my ability.

It grates a fair bit at times cos all I ever seem to hear is that I'm a lazy, work shy overpaid, over holidayed, over pensioned drain on society.

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

and you missed the last bit of on that quote which was the illustrative bit about skilled plumbers earning way more than a public sector manager - so the middle management leaning in the public sector isnt quite what it first might appear to be.

There's always going to be argument based on difference in roles and timings but realistically its hard to disprove the long term median position. I dont think most people resent the softer benefits of state employment (after all I couldnt work for a council office etc - the inane bureaucracy and concentration of stupidity would drive me mad ) but they probably do when it's demanded as a right of compensation on the false premise of poorer pay.

It grates a fair bit at times cos all I ever seem to hear is that I'm a lazy, work shy overpaid, over holidayed, over pensioned drain on society.

back to work! Slacker!

Posted 2 years ago #
johnners - Member

...and round and round it goes

Posted 2 years ago #
yossarian - Member

Having been in the public sector for a couple of years now its certainly an easier pace with far less consequence for poor performance in my experience.

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

I read Goldacres article when he published it a while ago - and completely agree with him. But as he says himself if you ignore the Times' effort to make it a post '97 issue (which it isnt - Im not being partisan here) and analyse the pay on a fairer break back then it still shows a structural additional median income to public over private sector.

Posted 2 years ago #
dangerousbeans - Member

No easy pace at my place of work, and the consequence of poor performance is that someone will die, I will lose my registration, job and most likely liberty.

the term 'public sector' is too all encompassing, are you talking about nhs cleaners, judges, firemen, nurses, civil servants, bin men, social workers, teachers, park keepers, IT bods?

Posted 2 years ago #
yossarian - Member

you're right dangerousbeans, should have specified education & some advisory work for council/local government.

Posted 2 years ago #
Drac - Moderator

Christ I thought I worked in the public sector but clearly I don't. With my below private sector wage, the ability to loose my job tomorrow because someone complains and I failed to literally tick a box means they can win, added to the fact the amount of training I had to do to become qualified seems to not weigh up. But I can't be private sector due to my wage and the fact I have a pension.

I wonder where I fall into but I bet all those who call the public sector will be thankful when I turn up to help them.

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

what are the St John's ambulance pay rates like Drac?

Posted 2 years ago #
Drac - Moderator

lol

Posted 2 years ago #
crikey - Member

I've mentioned before, but it's worth re-stating, how desperate must you be to play the politics of envy game on people like me.

I've worked in the public sector for 23 years as a nurse and I'm worth every penny I get paid, and every penny of my pension too. If your pension isn't as good, why not go and ask why instead of sulking and trying to mess mine up?

As noted above, if it's so great in the public sector, why don't you all come and join us?

Posted 2 years ago #
jonb - Member

TandemJeremy - Member
YOu mean public servants. Those that look after the poor the sick and the helpless.

I think it is wrong that the jobs where people look after the poor and sick should be cut. But you are very naive if you think there aren't other pubic sector jobs that aren't wasteful.

Posted 2 years ago #
Stoner - Member

As noted above, if it's so great in the public sector, why don't you all come and join us?

and for those reasons I trust you would never dream of striking for a pay raise would you? You could of course find another job afterall...

Posted 2 years ago #
crikey - Member

and for those reasons I trust you would never dream of striking for a pay raise would you?

I'm a nurse; we don't go on strike...

Posted 2 years ago #
CaptJon - Member

I used to work in the private sector (for Tesco amongst others) and the amount of waste was incredible. We used to bin thousands of pounds of food every week, we had a ridiculous number of managers who didn't do very much (automated ordering system etc) they usually just filled in 'performance' forms, staff were very lazy and would avoid the shop floor as much as possible.

Posted 2 years ago #
hilldodger - Member

I'm a nurse; we don't go on strike

I remember many instances of nurses' strike action both recently and in the 'fatcher years'

Posted 2 years ago #
b r - Member

For me the public sector is all those employees who rely on the public purse, whether they work 'officially' in the public or private sectors.

One of the real problems that has occurred over the last 20-25 years is the movement of public sector 'roles' into the private sector, especially the NGO's - where they basically answer to no one, but compare themselves (especially in their rations) with the blue-chip private sector.

How we are going to get out of this mess, I don't know.

Posted 2 years ago #
joemarshall - Member

I quit my job in the private sector, spent 3 years doing a PhD, and now work in research. I earn £10k less than I did 4 years ago, using the same kind of skills. I can't think of any jobs where there are directly comparable roles where you would get paid more in the public sector? Can anyone identify one of these?

I like doing what I do because I have the freedom to do interesting things, and can work hard on things in an environment where my management are pretty good and don't do pointless micromanagement, or make crazy decisions to do things in a very inefficient way based on the general short termism that is the general way of working in the private sector software development industry. I probably work twice as hard, and get way more done, because I have that much more freedom to direct my work.

In many ways my experience is that in the private sector, people work way less hard than in public sector research, and generally get less done, due to massive inefficiency.

I've also done work in the past for a contracted out cleaning contractor - now that seemed terribly inefficient compared to hiring a cleaner directly, the amount they pay compared to the cleaner's pay is shocking, and I don't think they get a particularly good service from them either.

Joe

Posted 2 years ago #
crikey - Member

I remember many instances of nurses' strike action both recently and in the 'fatcher years'

I'm aware of one small strike that involved 600 nurses during the Thatcher years. I know the RCN had a no-strike agreement up until 1995.

I'd like to see evidence of these 'many instances'.

Posted 2 years ago #