My son (13.5 y/o) is a keen rugby player and as the season draws to a close him and some of the other players have joined the local gym to keep fitness up. I should say that this is C2 rowing machine, crosstrainer, treadmill and stepper only, no weights at this point until they are 16.

Some of his friends are talking about protein shakes for recovery and he is asking me about them as I do take them post workout. I’m not one for giving him uninformed answers so I thought I’d see what the STW hive mind thinks. My gut reaction is too young, has anyone else got advice to the contrary / to back this up?

Thanks in advance.

no weights at this point until they are 16.

Weight lifting coaches start adding weight as soon as they hit puberty, to make the most of all the natural HGH and Testosterone in their blood. Their adaption / recovery rates are the highest they’ll ever naturally be.

That’s interesting FF, thanks for that. The rules are the gym’s, not mine.

It’s probably more to do with avoiding injury & liability from picking up weights that are far too heavy for them rather than any physiological reasons.

If you’re worried about protein shakes, just feed him an extra chicken breast.

Much to my chagrin children aged 13 and upwards can train weights at my gym. I don’t think the protein shake will do any harm

*not a doctor

what are there goals – if it’s just “general fitness” then i’m not convinced its necessary. if it were increase muscle mass then absolutley.

Are they training consecutive days? I find recovery is much more important if you are expecting to do it all again the next day.

Proteins and carbs for recovery after cardio.

If you’re worried about protein shakes, just feed him an extra chicken breast.

quite hard to do in that 20 minute window after a gym session.

I can’t see the point in protein shakes if they are just going to do a bit of cardio stuff to keep fit. And TBH, I can’t see the point in them at all unless you are a total gym-fiend looking to bulk up muscle mass and regularly do hard work-outs (ie, most days). A proper balanced diet is enough for us normal people.

quite hard to do in that 20 minute window after a gym session.

I read a study a couple of days ago which showed that it made no difference whether the protein was eaten before or after the workout. Can’t flippin’ find it now though 😆

I think as long as you’re getting enough protein in a day, overall, there’s no need to be too worried about it.

quite hard to do in that 20 minute window after a gym session.

Is it? Takes me like 2 minutes to eat a chicken breast I cooked earlier.

Plus the whole ‘protein within 20 minutes of exercise’ is basically irrelevant & broscience. He can eat it anytime throughout the day.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3577439/pdf/1550-2783-10-5.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3879660/

In conclusion, current evidence does not appear to support the claim that immediate (? 1 hour) consumption of protein pre- and/or post-workout significantly enhances strength- or hypertrophic-related adaptations to resistance exercise.

I can’t see the point in them at all unless you are a total gym-fiend looking to bulk up muscle mass and regularly do hard work-outs (ie, most days). A proper balanced diet is enough for us normal people.

A lot of people use them for recovery as they’re the easiest source of protein to consume minutes after finishing exercise.

A proper balanced diet is enough for most, but what’s the balance. If high in protein, that’s fine. If not, then you’ll struggle to recover.

Protein supplements are a big no-no during puberty, it can inhibit overall physical development as the body will will not produce testerone to the levels it should but rather sit back and let the supplements do it instead. No substitute for nature!

quite hard to do in that 20 minute window after a gym session.

As wallop says, that has been pretty widely debunked now.
http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/our-meta-analysis-of-protein-timing-thoughts-and-perspectives/

The only need for protein shakes is for convenience/cost reasons.
A long as they get 2g-ish per kg of body weight if they are weight training, they’ll be right. That’s fro decent animal sources, not soy of veg protein sources…. https://www.instagram.com/p/BYpnbNcnwHR/?taken-by=powerathletehq

Protein supplements are a big no-no during puberty, it can inhibit overall physical development as the body will will not produce testerone to the levels it should but rather sit back and let the supplements do it instead. No substitute for nature!

According to…???

I believe the main benefit of protein shakes is the high protein / no fat mix which means they help you to loose the flab whilst building muscle, i.e. it makes a difference to how you look which for many gym bods is the most important thing

Rugby season drawing to a end ? It’s just started or is he at a school where they only play till Christmas ?

When my kids where swimming competitively (GB level coach, top Speedo league club) they where doing some cross training in the gym from 14 from memory.

If your son is going to use gym/weights you need to get some proper advice on a programme so he doesn’t over do it.

Rugby season drawing to a end ?

League?

Protein supplements are a big no-no during puberty, it can inhibit overall physical development as the body will will not produce testerone to the levels it should but rather sit back and let the supplements do it instead. No substitute for nature!

According to…???

Yeah, I’d be interested to know the source of that one.

By that logic, just consuming more protein would have the same effect. Unless the contention is that additional protein (however you define that) only has that effect if consumed in the forms typically found in supplements.

My recollection of being 13 was that I was more or less a walking, talking food consumption machine. I’d very much doubt a protein shake is needed as he’s probably taking in a huge amount of protein each day just through pure volume of food.

There’s nothing magical about protein shakes though (provided you avoid the ones with other stuff added), so not going to do any more harm than downing 2 pints of milk for example.

Exactly. As I said, just feed him another chicken breast.

It’s probably more to do with avoiding injury & liability from picking up weights that are far too heavy for them rather than any physiological reasons.

+1 Great Ormond St prescribed my daughter a weights program when she was 9 to try and strengthen certain muscle groups/joints.

Back in my rock climbing days when I did two or three weights sessions a week, my normal recovery drink was 2 or 3 pints of bitter. OK, maybe he’s a bit young.

I read a study a couple of days ago which showed that it made no difference whether the protein was eaten before or after the workout. Can’t flippin’ find it now though

I think the science is different for recovery drinks rather than protein drinks, taking on sugars during and immediately after exercise means they get into your bloodstream whilst the muscles are still receiving energy so they store it in the mitochondria rather than the liver or turning it into fat.

Exactly. As I said, just feed him another chicken breast.

Testosterone is synthesised from cholesterol, so actually you need a fair amount of ‘bad’ stuff as well if you want to maximise it (red meat and eggs for example).

Eggs and milk are particularly good if you want to gain weight, they’re literally designed to grow animals from a small bundle of cells into a fully grown half ton of cow (or a chicken).

Exactly. As I said, just feed him another chicken breast Chicken McNugget

FTFY

Testosterone is synthesised from cholesterol, so actually you need a fair amount of ‘bad’ stuff as well if you want to maximise it (red meat and eggs for example).

Exactly. As I said, just feed him another chicken breast 29 day aged ribeye, medium rare, of course. With a peppercorn sauce.

Exactly. As I said, just feed him another chicken breast.

A quick online search, don’t shoot me if its not 100% accurate but

Protein shake

serving: 350g
331 calories
30.91g carbs
0.46g fat
58.13g protein

Chicken breast

serving: 101g
197 calories
0.00g carbs
7.79g fat
29.80g protein

I’d imagine the shake to be a bit cheaper too.

This was from the first google hit : nutritional comaprison and entered Protein shake and chicken breast

Is the 16 yr old eating a good balanced diet? Doesn’t sound like the Dad does.

The Protein shake above has more protein, but does it have fruit and veg in too? ie all the stuff you would eat in a proper meal

The Protein shake above has more protein, but does it have fruit and veg in too? ie all the stuff you would eat in a proper meal

Pretty sure nobody mentioned that the lad was going to stop eating food and attempt to live off protein shakes.

Pretty much everyone who takes a protein shake post workout has been conned by the supplement industry, one way or another.

Just tell him to drink a pint of milk.

Pretty sure nobody mentioned that the lad was going to stop eating food and attempt to live off protein shakes.

No but if you are filling yourself up with a protein shake (which you don’t need) you are less likely to eat a balanced diet.

If his diet is right to start with he should be getting everything he needs (but may need to up volume)

The Protein shake above has more protein, but… can the body process such a large amount in one sitting

Pint of milk

Calories 247
Total Carbohydrate 29 g
Total Fat 5.8 g
Protein 19 g

More fat and less protein.

No but if you are filling yourself up with a protein shake (which you don’t need) you are less likely to eat a balanced diet.

You are very unlikely to be sated by a protein shake alone.

@funkydunc. He’s 13 not 16 and where have you gleaned any information on my diet, lifestyle or exercise regime? Just curious like…

A quick online search, don’t shoot me if its not 100% accurate but

Of course a protein shake has more protein,

But i’d wager that, as a boy less than 16 years of age, he doesn’t 58g of extra protein in his diet. Where possible, it’s best to get your protein from whole foods – shakes are a supplement, not a replacement.

If, for his weight and goals, he only needs to eat an extra chicken breast, why would you drink a shake instead?

I only drink a shake because I’m already eating/snacking every three hours or so throughout the day and couldn’t possibly fit in another meal.

Plus, that shake you linked is some turbo mega stuff. Most protein shakes are around 20g-ish protein and 100cals per serving. I’m not sure what brand gives you over 50g and 300cals per serving, but that isn’t going to be cheap! (Or palatable to drink with 30g !!!! of carbs – what you’ve linked is a ‘weight gainer’)

No but if you are filling yourself up with a protein shake (which you don’t need) you are less likely to eat a balanced diet.

I’m guessing you don’t have teenage kids if you think you can fill them up that easily!

and where have you gleaned any information on my diet, lifestyle or exercise regime?

Well you were the one who stated that you use protein shakes to substitute your diet.

Mogrim I’m not suggesting it will fill them up, but rather than having some milk and banana, they will have their ‘healthy’ marketing snack

YoKaiser – Member
Pint of milk

Calories 247
Total Carbohydrate 29 g
Total Fat 5.8 g
Protein 19 g

More fat and less protein.

Just like to point out that almost all the carbs in milk are sugars. Which are bad mmmmmkayyyyy*? Add a banana to that and you’ve just eaten 30% of your RDA* of sugar.

‘Protein shake’ (as in the whey protein in water, not £2 a bottle supermarket stuff) will have almost no sugar.

Google LOMAD or GOMAD diet for the effects of drinking a lot of milk as a supplement.

Well you were the one who stated that you use protein shakes to substitute your diet.

Supplement not substitute.

*Sugar may or may not be bad for you, after all you’re doing exercise, just depends whether you want/need the extra calories.

I entered my first weightlifting competition at 13 or 14…

I suspect a good quality protein shake will do no harm or really add much more than a pint of milk would do. A good balanced diet is far more important.

Plus, that shake you linked is some turbo mega stuff. Most protein shakes are around 20g-ish protein and 100cals per serving. I’m not sure what brand gives you over 50g and 300cals per serving, but that isn’t going to be cheap! (Or palatable to drink with 30g !!!! of carbs – what you’ve linked is a ‘weight gainer’)

+1

i usually have a shake after a workout, just cos i dont eat enough meat or consume enough protein otherwise, so i use it to ‘supplement’ my diet.

no real reason, i just dont eat enough otherwise, but yes, protein from food is preferential.

Ignore the advertising crap. Protein is food.

Insert usual stuff about it forming part of a healthy diet.

Last time I checked, powdered protein was the cheapest way of sticking in a few extra calories of just protein into your diet. This may or may not still be true. Either way, I know I’d rather have protein powder than a £3 supermarket chicken.

Then again, what do I know, I also don’t think red meat (like, steak, not the scrapings of the abattoir that make up a pepperami) is inherently bad, eat eggs, drink full fat milk.

Back in my rock climbing days when I did two or three weights sessions a week, my normal recovery drink was 2 or 3 pints of bitter..

Funny enough, that’s my current weekly night ride re-hydration and recovery strategy.

Wouldn’t worry about it, if Rugby is his thing, he’ll be on the proper ‘bulking agents’ soon enough, if all the young rugbyists round here are anything to go by.