What about the '3rd for 30' thing?
Worked very well on our old car (2.0l Focus), which sat happily at 30 in third and let you know about it if your speed crept up.
Not so good on our new car (also a 2.0l Focus) which has higher/longer/taller/whatever-the-technical-term-is gears so it will happily do up to 50 in 3rd without screeching.
When I learnt to drive the instructor encouraged the use of 2nd for residential streets and pretty much all corners, roundabouts etc.
my clio has a speed limiter, which is the opposite of cruise control. basically you ping in the max speed you want to do and the engine wont go above it in any gear. its a very strange feeling driving through at exactly 29 mph with your foot on the floor. very useful though, but a faff to use on 20/30/20 style journeys
I have just been done in a rural 30. 
Surely if they were serious about reducing speed/accidents, all cars would be governed to 75mph and/or power output. To keep imposing limits and speed cameras is a money raising venture rather than an effort to actually address the problem?
Surely if they were serious about reducing speed/accidents, all cars would be governed to 75mph and/or power output. To keep imposing limits and speed cameras is a money raising venture rather than an effort to actually address the problem?
Not really.
You can quite happily drive a car pissed whilst reading your paper shaving your face and phoning your mates with a speed governer fitted.
20mph in a urban zone is a good idea.
50mph on a rural A road is utter stupidity. In case anyone hasn't noticed people don't drive 60mph on rural A road. So why is changing it down to 50mph going to make any difference? I reckon it will cause more accidents and deaths, people who want to go 70-80mph will still do so and just overtake the people driving at slow speeds. Probably in dangerous areas too.
People are generally good at judging speed. We have a lot of cars on the road and a very low accident rate compared to most other countries.
It’s just another way for the government to waste our money. Governing cars is very silly, most of the time you need to accelerate out of accidents hence why mopeds are so dangerous.
Another thing they need to do is regulate insurance companies, this will cut the amount of uninsured drivers. When you are quoted £1200 at 18 a lot of people will just drive uninsured.
..most of the time you need to accelerate out of accidents..
Come on, that is blatantly not true.
Sometimes you may be able to avoid an accident by accelerating out of danger, but I'd say almost all accidents could be avoided by stopping before you get to them.
Graham S - clearly you have never ridden a motorbike. The amount of times I've had to accelerate when cars decide to turn out of the road or roundabout in front of me is ureal.
True, I haven't and I'm not sure how that relates to governing the speed on cars, which is what your original comment related to.
I have been in similar situations on a bike though, where accelerating out of trouble was not an option (especially the way I ride!).
Edit: to be clear, I accept the argument that sometimes being able to briefly exceed the speed limit may help avoid an accident so I'm not in favour of putting automatic governors on cars.
At least not at anything close to the speed limit. Something like 100mph may be a reasonable limit, but I can't see that saving many lives.
Think the future will probably end up with a little black box in all cars by law. You crash or get pulled over then plod plugs into your box and gets your speed out. Either that or they connect it to GPS and automatically send you the fine....
I seem to remember some company (maybe Post Office) considering that for their vans now.
Maybe though I suspect it will be brought in via insurance companies rather than law.
e.g. Are you a safe driver? Do you obey the speed limits? Why not fit a DirectAdmiralMeerkat.com SafetyBox™ and enjoy a 95% reduction* in your premiums today.
* Reduction applies for first week only. SafetyBox™ must remain fitted for at least ten years. Your home and your first born child may be at risk if you do not keep up payments.
As a non-driver, the news that some of you people have to speed simply to prevent your concentration wandering scares the hell out of me.
Driving like a tosser so that you don't drive like a numpty seems a wierd piece of justification. But hey. 
BD - on the bike do you concentrate more thrashing it down a downhill run or just dawdling along the path? Which one are you more likely to notice conditions and stuff out of the ordinary?
Why would it be hugely different in a car? I don't speed much; it's hard when my car was made in the 70's. It takes total concentration just to drive the thing.
I'm more like likely to notice conditions and stuff out of the ordinary when I'm looking around me and not just at the bit of trail a few feet in front of me.
It’s a shame theycan't do similar stuff for drivers, but driving's not seen as a skill to hone, develop and ultimately enjoy. People see it as a 'right'.
This is kind of what I'm getting at. I'd love to hone my driving skills, be smoother, enjoy it more. (I do think it's verging on criminal that we don't have to do any skid pan training before passing your driving test - how many people get it wrong on their first -and subsequent- emergency stop in the rain and either freeze or have no idea how to correct the skid. I was hugely lucky - I overcorrected the skid and ended up doing a full 360 in the road without hitting anything. Needed clean keks mind...). But all that the training will do is allow people to drive faster, may be safer, but still faster....
As a non-driver, the news that some of you people have to speed simply to prevent your concentration wandering scares the hell out of me.
I do know this - most of my serious bike accidents have been when I've been pootling, not when I've been hitting some supergnarradtasticdoubleblack DH trail. How many car accidents are caused because people aren't concentrating fully - phones, ipods, fags, conversations, make up, whatever. The very fact that it's at all possible to do any of these things whilst simultaneously controlling a car suggests quite how low the minimal level of attention needed to drive the average car is. If you *have* to apply yourself fully, you're far less likely to a) get distracted by trivialities and b) miss something vital.
Dare I join in?
My view is get rid of the 30 completely. give the motorist something back by using 20 and 40 in urban areas. Narrow road / junctions / houses / schools - 20. If the road is wide enough to provide proper cycle paths, right and left filter lanes for turns and so on - 40 limit.
Effectivlyu if cars are mixing with ped and bikes - 20 if you can engineer the road to keep cars separate from bikes and ped 40.
The other thing I really like I have seen used in france where a N road goes thru a town. A speed sensor near the start of the speed limit. If a car goes thru above the limit all the traffic lights on the main road turn red.
I get really cross with "traffic calming measures" that make life dangerous for cyclist - those awful width restrictions / chicanes. Even if they put a way thru near the kerb its always blocked with parked ars. I like speed humps tho - the igger the better. Now more amusing than overtaking cars slowing for them and using the hump as a jump.
20 in residentials areas is a great idea, but the people who speed in 30's are not going to slow down any how (around our way it tends to be mothers on the school run). To me speed limits are kind of irrelevant, your drive for the conditions of the road your on, and the only time you make sure your in a limit is if there is a copper/camera around.
50mph in rural areas is a joke. I would say the average speed in country areas certainly by locals would be 60-80mph.
IMO make cars less cosseted and comfortable. I used to have a Suzuki Cappuccino which was limited to 85mph, the fact is at 75mph it felt dam quick. My latest car doesnt feel remotely as quick even at 120mph!
breatheeasy - Member
Think the future will probably end up with a little black box in all cars by law. You crash or get pulled over then plod plugs into your box and gets your speed out. Either that or they connect it to GPS and automatically send you the fine....
I seem to remember some company (maybe Post Office) considering that for their vans now.
I think you'll find most modern cars already have this and the information is stored in the engine management computer........IIRC someone was jail using evidence obtained from the car after an accident.
The other thing I really like I have seen used in france where a N road goes thru a town. A speed sensor near the start of the speed limit. If a car goes thru above the limit all the traffic lights on the main road turn red.
That is a genius idea!
Seriously, it is impossible for you to concentrate on not killing me while only driving at 30mph? You see, I find I can manage not to fall off my bike or crash it into anything without riding like a giant Black & Decker, and if I'm going gently I don't feel the urge to play with myself, fart about on my iphone or whatever it is you all do to relieve the boredom of keeping yor speed under control. Maybe I should learn to drive just so I can empathise with the problems you face...
Cars and speed limits seem to bring out all sorts of wonderful theories to justify speed.
Whatever the reason, the fact remains that reducing speed reduces impacts and allows longer reaction times to avoid them.
As for anyone who feels they have to go fast to concentrate, I'd like to suggest their driving skills are seriously deficient, and perhaps they should not drive at all. After all there are not many places you can go fast, so they are obviously getting round in a state of suspended animation.
As for anyone who feels they have to go fast to concentrate, I'd like to suggest their driving skills are seriously deficient, and perhaps they should not drive at all. After all there are not many places you can go fast, so they are obviously getting round in a state of suspended animation.
Doesnt mean their skills are bad though, just that they're easily bored. They might have incredible car control, lane discipline, speed judgement and traffic awareness when concentrating. Of course concentration is a skill though. Ultimately I dont think it's a good thing but it is a genuine problem, a LOT of driving accidents occur in start-stop traffic by normal people who are perfectly capable of driving a car well in normal circumstances but who get bored/distracted/complacent when moving 1m start-stop at a time.
Not justifying it, merely pointing out that driving skill and concentration are two different (though linked) things.
As for governing car speeds automatically, while I disagree with that I'd quite happily have someone swap the ratios in my gearbox for much shorter ones
That's right, concentration is a skill. Unable to concentrate = dangerous driver.
They might have incredible car control, lane discipline, speed judgement and traffic awareness when concentrating.
All drivers think that they have those things all the time, whatever they are doing. that's part of the problem, people don't admit/see that they are terrible drivers.
All drivers think that they have those things all the time, whatever they are doing. that's part of the problem, people don't admit/see that they are terrible drivers.
you think car drivers are bad... just try critising the way some bikers ride.... hohohohooooo boy!
But they don't, people just assume it mades sense and don't look at real examples
with all due respect coffeeking i did not assume anything, as stated in my post i spent many years fighting for traffic calming and did a great deal or research into the various options. seriuosly, it would be a rant of epic proportions if i get started on traffic calming campaigning - but i'll spare the stw massive that!
anecdotal evidence like yours is really valuable, but as well as instances where it does not work, like in your village and indeed in mine where some calming measures were put in place a few years back that also did nothing, there are many other sites in the UK where it is hugely beneficial. lessons can be learnt from both.
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