Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 96 total)
  • Proposed 20mph speed limits
  • jova54
    Free Member

    If these are used in built up areas then they are probably a good idea but are they enforceable.

    By that I don’t mean legally but in practice. Do we have the technology to speed check the thousands of vehicles that might be ‘speeding’. Do speed guns work effectively down to this speed or does the clutter and furniture on our streets make them unreliable.

    I presume that speed cameras do work at 20mph but can you imagine the mess caused by having one or two for every zone.

    What other technologies could be used; GPS, vehicle data loggers etc?

    VanHalen
    Full Member

    you already have 20MPH zones. i dont know what the fuss is about.

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    Regular traffic calming measures ( of the road narrowing rather than speed bump variety ) would be very effective.

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    darrell
    Free Member

    speed bumps and other speed controlling designs work, as does education.

    mrmichaelwright
    Free Member

    the 20mph limit is a good idea, the rural 50 limit is a joke.

    what needs to change is driver attitudes to speed not the legal limits. do you think reducing the limit by 10mph will make speeding more or less thrilling for johnny boy racer?

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    We’ve got a 30 speed limit in most urban areas at the moment, and that seems to be fairly loosely adhered to- I wouldn’t expect much difference in the way of enforcement- each speed camera only covers a few metres of road anyway so the vast majority of the road network is actually unpoliced (witness the slow down/speed up driving technique in action on heavily camera’d road stretches eg the A406 North Circ), and the speed limit largely tends to be enforced by self control/ traffic and road conditions.

    jova54
    Free Member

    Hopefully speed humps will be a minor part of the solution. Road narrowing, chicanes and single lane contra-flow would be preferable solutions.

    What about the systems the Dutch(?) have introduced where they remove all markings and indicators to blur the boundaries between road and pedestrianised areas. Do they actually work?

    jon1973
    Free Member

    Hopefully speed humps will be a minor part of the solution. Road narrowing, chicanes and single lane contra-flow would be preferable solutions.

    In my experiance, people just seem to speed up in between the traffic calming measures.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    The 20 mph for residential areas makes some sense, I’m a bit bemused by the 50mph rural limit though – it’s already in force in most of the Peak District on the “A” roads, and the accident rate seems worse, if anything, since it came in.

    Also seems odd that you can turn off the wide and smooth A515 with a 50mph limit, and then do 60mph on a rutted, potholed singletrack rural lane with stone walls 3ft either side!

    Speed in itself isn’t the problem, it’s inappropriate speed – the ****t who nearly hit me on the roundabout this morning was only doing 20mph in a residential zone, but forgot he should slow down and look right before entering a roundabout.

    markenduro
    Free Member

    Road narrowing/chicanes is not the answer. when you throw cycles into the equation they are actually quite dangerous.

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    There was mention on the radio this morning of increased penalities for overtaking too close to cyclists. No idea of the details or how it’s going to be enforced.

    tooslow
    Free Member

    Also seems odd that you can turn off the wide and smooth A515 with a 50mph limit, and then do 60mph on a rutted, potholed singletrack rural lane with stone walls 3ft either side!

    I thought the limit was 50mph on single track roads…

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    I generally ignore all speed limits and spend my time looking where I’m going rather than at the speedo.
    All the new 20mph limit means to me is that I’ll be able to overtake cars on my road bike!….

    😉

    hora
    Free Member

    Decreasing limits. Greater controls. Expanding public sector employments. Folks we are heading towards a socialist communist state.

    Thing is, as its creeping control no one is standing back and taking notice. I was all for the smoking ban but each increment is exerting more influence and control.

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    Praise the lord that Hora’s here to save us though.

    binners
    Full Member

    Good luck to anyone who can make it up to the dizzy heights of 20mph on the roads around our neck of the woods. Double parked cars down every road, speed bumps every 20 yards, pot-holes big enough to swallow a Smart car. They could test tanks on em

    binners
    Full Member

    Hora for El Presidente!!!

    muddy_bum
    Free Member

    There’s a system where residential streets are pedestrianised (no pavement, block paving, trees etc.)
    Drivers tend to slow down when they do not have any perceived right of way.
    20mph is plenty for residential streets
    http://www.homezones.org/index.html

    Drac
    Full Member

    I thought the limit was 50mph on single track roads..

    Guess your name suits you.

    david_r
    Free Member

    There was mention on the radio this morning of increased penalities for overtaking too close to cyclists. No idea of the details or how it’s going to be enforced.

    I heard that as well and thought the same thing. Will I get me own personal copper to accompany me on my commute?! I think they’ll enforce this the same way they enforce not using a mobile phone whilst driving….i.e they wont!

    Still amazes me how many drivers I see using a phone. That’s the biggest danger to cyclists IMHO.

    Esme
    Free Member

    The best way of making someone drive at 20mph is to have the car in front driving at 20mph. No speed bumps, no cameras, no chicanes – just drivers realising the benefits of a lower speed

    More information on the “20’s Plenty” website – set up by cyclists
    20s Plenty for us

    scu98rkr
    Free Member

    Totally agree with markenduro that Road narrowing/chicanes are not the answer. Hate them both as a driver and a cyclist. Dangerous as cyclist and it becomes very difficult to over take cyclists as a driver.

    When over taking a cyclist Im quite often tempted to go round them the wrong way to give cyclists plenty of room or so I dont have stupidly accelerate in between them.

    hora
    Free Member

    Double the points system. 6 instead of 3 and 12 means AUTOMATIC ban and restest. No mitigating circumstances that some reps etc can get round. I read in our local paper about an Oldham-based rep who has accrued 26(?) points and still kept his licence.

    tooslow
    Free Member

    Drac, I stand corrected: The Highway Code

    That is a bit stupid then.

    chvck
    Free Member

    Automated cars, that’s the solution! Take control from the humans and give it to the machines mwhahahahaha. On a serious note automated cars would be welcome from me, I hate driving. I also agree that current speed limits aren’t policed well enough so fail to see how this would help and that’s ignoring any other arguments about drivers not paying enough attention etc….

    Also tooslow has worried me slightly (this isn’t a personal attack or anything) but people do forget the proper law sometimes which sure doesn’t help!

    Drac
    Full Member

    Drac, I stand corrected: The Highway Code

    Least you were playing it safe and not doing 70.

    jimster
    Free Member

    Is this going to be in built-up or residential areas? And will they be at certain times during the day? Not that I’m condoning speeding in any way, but it seems harsh to get knicked doing 30 at 5.30 in the morning.

    Seems like it the usual spin the govt are releasing to avoid the embarrassing budget tomorrow IMO.

    IdleJon
    Full Member

    Decreasing limits. Greater controls. Expanding public sector employments. Folks we are heading towards a socialist communist state.

    I wasn’t aware that traffic restrictions was one of the tenets of communism?

    waihiboy
    Free Member

    don’t see a problem with it.

    i still think it is a massive joke you do your test at 17 and are not re-tested!!

    everyone should be re-tested say every 5 years… as this would cut the nutters on the road down buy 50% 😉

    trouble is you would have even more un-insured drivers out there.

    dont get me started on the ‘traffic calming measures’ we have lots of ‘narrowing/chicanes ‘ round our way and as a motorcyclist they are lethal, especially when you are following behind a car when you have right of way.

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    everyone should be re-tested say every 5 years… as this would cut the nutters on the road down buy 50%

    Alas – “are you a nutter?” isn’t part of the test 🙂

    jimster
    Free Member

    Got to agree with waihiboy on re-testing, I have to re-take my FLT test every 5 years, why not car/bike drivers?

    Not sure if truck drivers have to re-test every so often, I know they have to take a medical.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    I don’t have a problem with the proposed 20 limit, so long as it is not a blanket limit, but placed in specific areas.
    But the 50 on rural roads seems a bit OTT.

    Speed is an easy thing to police, whereas things like using a phone while driving, poor road positioning, not indicating, tailgating etc. all cause accidents too, but can’t be picked up by a camera.
    More measures should be put in place to stop people for these kinds of offences. It is too easy to blame speed for accidents and punish the people that do speed.
    I am not condoning speeding, but other causes of accidents should be looked at as well.

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    Totally agree with markenduro that Road narrowing/chicanes are not the answer. Hate them both as a driver and a cyclist. Dangerous as cyclist and it becomes very difficult to over take cyclists as a driver.

    When over taking a cyclist Im quite often tempted to go round them the wrong way to give cyclists plenty of room or so I dont have stupidly accelerate in between them.

    I quite like the chicanes you get in the Netherlands and Belgium – even where the road is shared by cyclists and cars (over there, if there’s a bike lane, you have to use it) – because they usuall have a nice gap either side for cyclists to continue through unimpeded.

    Over here, the narrowing doesn’t seem to work as well – instead, as a cyclist, i preserve myself by using the middle of the lane, thus preventing a car trying to squeeze through.

    What about the systems the Dutch(?) have introduced where they remove all markings and indicators to blur the boundaries between road and pedestrianised areas. Do they actually work?

    I believe there is some evidence that they do – for the reasons muddybum details. I listened to an article about it on the Bike Show podcast some time last year where this had been done to great effect somewhere in London.

    I also have the view that, in these situaitons, cyclists tend to move more slowly (which is combined with my pet theory that Dutch bikes are the perfect urban travel tool: you travel faster than a pedestrian, but not so fast as to cause peds concern when riding near them), thus preventing frustrated interaction.

    There was mention on the radio this morning of increased penalities for overtaking too close to cyclists.

    Hadn’t heard that. Sounds like a silly, unenforceable way of saying that people whould drive their cars with more consideration for others (as they are already obliged to do), and overtaking cyclists (and horse riders, runners, mothters with prams, etc.) is already included in this obligation.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Most of the 20 limits in place currently are not legally binding – they use black text and a green circle – these are advisory only and cant be enforced. And I find most people ignore such limits. The technology for catching people (radar/laser) works just as well at 20 as at 100 and it’ll be fine in a cluttered street, but will it do any good? Speed bumps/chicanes don’t help – we saw them scattered throughout our village and all they did is make the spaces between the obstacles into raceways where people would attempt to make up the lost time by flooring it. Even the people who dont speed (I always do my best not to in residential areas) found their suspension falling apart within 12 months of them arriving, there were countless cases of people almost killing me near the chicanes when I was cycling etc.

    It’s all about teaching people to drive for the conditions. If people drove for the conditions we wouldnt need limits, people would space themselves well and travel at a speed suitable for the area, rather than being given control of a high speed box and told to stick to limits. I find it particularly off-putting to have to monitor my speedo in residential area where I’d much rather be keeping my eyes on the gaps under and around parked cars in case of kiddie run-out.

    The problem is where do we stop – cutting the limit to 15mph wouldnt completely eliminate deaths on the road because if someone steps out 1m from your car even at 10mph you’re still going to knock them to the floor and a large percentage of deaths come from head impacts with the floor rather than the initial car impact.

    TonyT
    Free Member

    Personally I think it is all down to driver education and the correct use of speed (or lack of) where appropriate. I cycle everyday to work (for the last 2 years) I am a common sight to the local drivers who pass me around the same time everyday, These drivers are not surprised, alarmed or feel the need to put the foot down to pass me just before a corner then brake hard in front of me, you can tell a non-local normally by the way i’m passed.
    The speed limit is not the issue, traffic calming obstructs the flow of traffic (and yeah i do realise that is its purpose), speed cameras do slow some drivers down but erratically with panic braking( they were doing just fine before the camera but feel the need to slow by 10mph just in case). Driver education is the way forward, i feel our traffic system is being numbed with petty restrictions…..Jeeeesh, 1 night of snow and our roads grind to a halt, Norway, Sweden etc seem to manage just fine.
    Maybe as more people take to bikes as a form of transport everyone will just chill…..Yeah right 🙂

    TonyT

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Oh yeah…meant to say about the whole speed hump/chicane thing.
    I don’t really agree with either.

    Speed bumps just mean people race between them, they knacker your suspension (I have to absolutely crawl over speed bumps as the suspension in my car is quite crashy), they screw up your mpg and people in company cars who don’t have the maintenance expense & 4×4 (jeep type things) drivers can go over them at pretty much whatever speed they want.

    Around my area they have installed several chicane type calming methods. Some mean that cars can proceed in both directions and aren’t too bad. People genuinely have to take care or they will collide. The other type are alternating give way to oncoming traffic type affairs. In my experience, what happens is that at rush hour there is a general ‘flow’ in one direction. So, if you want to travel against the flow it take you ages, as you are constantly giving way to a procession of cars.
    Both chicane type options put cars and cyclists closer together and seem to provoke dangerous overtaking as drivers get frustrated.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    I thought the limit was 50mph on single track roads..

    Were you the guy in front of me on the A68 this morning? 😉

    Empty single-carriageway A-road and he was pootling along at 48mph – which is fine if that was the speed he felt comfortable at – but the fact he was hitting the brakes for all the speed cameras indicates he either had no idea what speed he was doing or he had no idea what the speed limit was.

    I’m not sure which is worse.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    they screw up your mpg and people in company cars who don’t have the maintenance expense & 4×4 (jeep type things) drivers can go over them at pretty much whatever speed they want.

    Couldnt agree more actually, they really affected my MPG and the main offenders for racing over them without a care?…wagons!? Seen them stonking over them at full whack, 7am with their loads bouncing around and waking everyone up, or local buses that just hit them at full whack. They’re the one group that will struggle to stop if a kid runs out.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    lets get this straight………..

    normaly this forums a winging pot full of “cars should slow down and give cyclist more room”

    but when the government does exatly that sudddenly theyr accused of trying to create a comuinst state?

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Problem is they’re not doing exactly that – they’re simply changing a traffic reg that wont make any damn difference.

    It’s always the stick isnt it, never any carrot. I wonder if theres a carrot way of getting peolpe to behave better on the road?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 96 total)

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