[Closed] Police Officers Numbers

They only wear numbers in case they get lost.

Do Police Officers when asked what there PC number is are they legally required to do so?

Yes, though in asking this question you automatically fail the attitude test.

I don't believe its a legal requirement but it is policy that they do so - and they should also give you the number if asked to

Always carry a notebook and start taking notes if they talk to you.

Make sure they have a good reason why they are around this part of town at this time of night - a simple "And where are you going?" can often work.

sofatester - Member

Do Police Officers when asked what there PC number is are they legally required to do so?

Yes, though in asking this question you automatically fail the attitude test.

Generally, if asked my number by a person I was speaking to, I would give it out to the person - reality is that its quite often an empty threat from a smart arse ... hence the fail of the attitude test so to speak.

Regarding wearing them: There is a set on my black body armour and a set on my yellow jacket. They are always left on. If not, its by accident, not by choice. Contrary to reported opinion, colleagues are decent folks and point out if you're missing them on your shoulders ( thats if they haven't turned them upside down that is ) As to whether its a legal requirement, TJ probably is right regarding it being policy.

Fisha, take it you are a police officer? What force, I'm South Yorks.

Trevor.

Strathclyde.

I'm kept busy. 😉

If it was a legal requirement why do plain clothes /cid officers not wear numerals. Old wives tale.
Same as they can't arrest you without their hat on.

Seeing as there is a couple of cops on this thread how would you ( or think your bosses would) react to a group of us setting up bait bikes and collaring the neds who tried to nick them - and handing them over with video and witness statements?

I suspect they would spout health and safety concerns ,Rip(s)a legislation and acting as an agent provocateur as reasons why it would be bad idea. Not necessarily in that order though.

^^^ Sorry but as said by heuer27 to be honest.

and whilst there may be other forms of swift applied summary justice considered once said neds were collared, the time and money of the setup of the sting would maybe be better spent on ensuring the security of the bikes in the first place.

TJ, if that really is an issue, maybe try and get communicating with a local community cop. i dont know how your local force works, but up here, they try and work 2 aspects to the police you see on the street, one aspect is biased to the response policing of going to emergency calls and the other is biased to community policing . The 2 are not mutually exclusive in what they deal with.

Where I am, response covers a large area ( multiple towns ) so you dont get to know everybody in an area that well, where as community policing generally covers a smaller area ( single town or neighbourhood ) and there is more opportunity to work with people, get your name known and be able to develop and work on a targeted action plan for a particular issue in an area ( such as bike thefts in an area ) .

As above, what if said bike thieve pulls out a knife and stabs you? Would be great if it did work but in today's society is it worth the risk? We have training and personal protective equipment including Tasers and our community teams in Sheffield have sting bikes with trackers fitted so my advice would be leave it to the police.

Trevor.

Hmmm.... Leave it to the police. Not much faith in that Im afraid. Seems to be a pretty common viewpoint as well.

We are not miracle workers and cannot be all things to all people, not enough of us. Nature of the beast I suppose when it comes to liking or trusting us!

thorpie - Member

As above, what if said bike thieve pulls out a knife and stabs you?

One should not live in fear

how about setting a sting operation up just as I'm walking home from my martial arts class with a big bag or, erm....toys! 🙂

I'm with bigthunder and TJ, are we all supposed to live in fear? Surely that would mean the scrotes had won?

Somebody pulled a knife on me at an ATM once, let's just say he'll think twice about ever doing it again!

I suspect the "knife" point was one of many possible reasons why the idea wasn't such a good one. If bike theft and the stuff TJ suggest hasn't been discussed with the local force then it seems an obvious opportunity / step in the process has been missed. The [i]assumption[/i] that the force won't do anything about it is not the same as actually making the effort to see if they will (at the right level. with sufficient effort etc).

You pays your taxes, the force gets a proportion of that and ought to respond in some way to the concerns of the community they are charged with policing. As always, there's a multitude of factors and considerations. Getting to talk to the "right" person is probably key, but as there's been advice on that there seems little to lose trying it before getting all urban ninja.

What are these trackers you cops have got in sheffield? How much do they cost? If I got one fitted to my bike would the cops track it and then make an arrest? Im sure this was asked on here before and the answer was no due to the fact that a bike is a bike with a perceived low value.
As for ensuring their security first that points been well covered already. Also surely the police should be dealing with the little scrotes who carry these knives and nick bikes. In my case all the police have done is protect the thief. Sorry fellas but the cops/courts are useless at this sort of stuff and leave you with no choice but to deal with these little tossers yerself. And woe betide anyone who pulls a knife on me.

Fisha also recommends getting your name known and working on a targeted actio plan. Thought this is what the police are supposed to do? My targeted action plan is break the thiefs fingers with pliers,then cable tie him and throw him in a river. Cant do that though coz the police protect the little scrote.

Clearly no matter what I say on here as a police officer will hold much weight because too many people have had bad experiences, only when people have these bad experiences do the police get involved, that is what I meant about nature of the beast, we are only there when things go wrong. I work on a RESPONSE team the clue being in the title but that's not to say that we are not proactive, we are when not responding. I don't care if you are a Ninja or unafraid of these people that steal bikes but generally they have absolutely nothing to lose and would not have any issue or hesitation in harming you to secure their escape. A public body like the police could not support the public taking matters into their own hands. We are trained and paid to take these risks, just like the four bobbies who got stabbed and slashed in London the other week are. I understand people's frustrations, I am a cyclist too. When we do catch these offenders we put the evidence to the cps and they to the courts, what happens after is nothing to do with the police. Re the trackers, they are used as part of pre planned operations in Sheffield and have been succesful in catching bike theives. Please, don't be too hard on the police folks, we are human too and we are doing all we can to prevent and detect crime, as always, but with the government trying to pull the funding rug from under us it isn't easy.

Trevor.

My targeted action plan is break the thiefs fingers with pliers,then cable tie him and throw him in a river

Ah, is not the internet a wonderful thing... 🙂

Bless.

Well said Trevor.

Elfinsafety - its not an internet thing mate - Ive already been to his house. I dont hide behind the keyboard mate Im just the same in real life.

Edinburgh does periodically have a crackdown on bike thieves -however it can only ever be a part of the solution as they have plenty of other things to deal with

I wasn't really asking for advice as to whether to do it or not - I was wondering what would happen if the local cops got a 999 call saying - we have caught a bike thief - here is the videotape of them thieving and here are some witnesess

Having worked alongside the Edinburgh cops I have grat sympathy for them and a little understanding

Elfinsafety - its not an internet thing mate - Ive already been to his house. I dont hide behind the keyboard mate Im just the same in real life.

'kinsafety is simple applying his own standards to other people. He doesn't comprehend that some people also have balls when they are not annonymous and a long long way away! 😉

TJ, if that was the case then I would arrest the offender, interview him and put the evidence to him, charge on admission or if denied cps would decide(and sometimes they cannot make a decision for love or money) and send him to court. Our job done and hopefully the magistrate would give him more than just a slap on the wrist! If only the evidence was already there as a complete package all the time!

Trevor.

'kinsafety is simple applying his own standards to other people. He doesn't comprehend that some people also have balls when they are not annonymous and a long long way away!

Oh do shut up.

Seriously. Have you ever met me? No. Do you know what I'm like? No. So be quiet. 🙄

Jeeze, some people.

Bigthunder; would you actually cut his fingers off with pliers, zip-tie him up and throw him in the river? Really?

So, nicking a bike deserves murder, is what you're saying? Do you not see how morally that puts you in a far, far worse position than a bike thief?

Ta trevor

@ thorpie. I don't think anyone's seriously having a pop at the police but don't you think the world would be a much better place if folk were supported in sticking up for themselves a bit more? In my case at the ATM the police advice would've been to hand over the £50 I'd just drawn out plus anything else Mr mugger demanded then report the crime in some vein hope that he was caught. You know as well as I do (if not better)that the likelihood of him being caught is slim to none, leaving me £50 worse off, possibbly a watch and a wallet lighter and the scrote free to do it again. As it was I dealt with the situation as I saw fit. I kept my hard earned cash and possesions and the scrote will think twice before trying to mug anyone at knifepoint again. I know which outcome I prefer.

don't you think the world would be a much better place if folk were supported in sticking up for themselves a bit more?

They are. The Law fully supports the use of Reasonable Force in order to prevent a crime taking place. I myself, and I imagine many others on here, have done exactly this, and had no worries about it.

It does not in any way support violent fantasists who would use completely disproportionate force and pre-meditated violence against petty criminals, however...

One should not live in fear

From the man who lobbed a sarnie back into someones car and then bravely ran away, oh the ironing.

@elfinsafety - didnt say I would cut them off said I would break them. And yes I would. I also dont give a monkeys what anyone thinks of my morals.

Generally, if asked my number by a person I was speaking to, I would give it out to the person - reality is that its quite often an empty threat from a smart arse ... hence the fail of the attitude test so to speak.

Regarding wearing them: There is a set on my black body armour and a set on my yellow jacket. They are always left on. If not, its by accident, not by choice. Contrary to reported opinion, colleagues are decent folks and point out if you're missing them on your shoulders ( thats if they haven't turned them upside down that is ) As to whether its a legal requirement, TJ probably is right regarding it being policy.

I think you quite possibly fail the attitude test if you think someone is a smart arse for asking for your number. The police don't always do the right thing. I have seen numerous abuses by the police and some diabolical police attitudes. I am largely not a fan of the police nowadays. I know the number game you play, the people whose lives your institution has ruined e.g. the shady caution that ends careers just to get a disposal that makes you look good.....

You work for us.

Im with van cough cough on this one. The police in Edinburgh like to run a tight ship so to speak but are really only any good at dealing with offender present type crimes. Very poor record unless someone is standing there with a smoking gun - and thats from serving officers! Nationally I think the police are getting much more militaristic and are definetley getting away from being public servants. Quite a few recent cock ups have shown them up very poorly as well - things like steven lawrence,jean charles de menendez,phone hacking scandal and killing the newspaper seller guy who walked past(cant remember his name) as well as worming their way out a few tricky situations due to the lying of the IPCA. Not really doing too well for themselves just now and crime just continues to rise.

davesmate, whilst it's unlikely you'll ever be encouraged by the police to do what you did (not officially anyway), I would expect that, after the event, you would be fully supported by them. You certainly would around here.

Ian Tomlinson was his name.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is this. Police advice is to not put up a fight and give the scrotes what they want. I think this sends out the wrong message, you're telling them to feel free to mug people at knifepoint, nobody will resist you. Surely the best advice would be to assess the situation, if you feel you can do something then do so.

I'd have to admit I probably used what some would see as disproportionate force but in my opinion there is no disproportionate force against someone who is willing stab, maim or kill you for the contents of your pockets.

I also dont give a monkeys what anyone thinks of my morals.

Ah well then you won't mind if I regard you as far, far lower than a bike thief then.

in my opinion there is no disproportionate force against someone who is willing stab, maim or kill you for the contents of your pockets.

If you believe someone is going to try to kill you, then you are legally entitled to use reasonable force proportionate with the level of threat you believe yourself to be under. So, someone pulls a knife on you and you end up killing them in order to prevent harm to yourself or others, that could actually be legally justified and you could walk free. Possibly.

Breaking someone's fingers then drowning them for stealing a bicycle will just end you up inside for a long, long time. And rightly so.

Ahhh the old I hate the police brigade, wonder what you'll do when you leave work and realise your house has been broken into and several expensive items have been stolen.
There are plenty of opportunities to have input and even a voluntary police service in which you could direct your efforts into perhaps making a small difference in changing the system that you believe is failing you.
I have seen my parents both long term serving officers bang their head on the wall with frustration at times, due to the way certain scrotes and cases go scot free! But they genuinely offer 110% to make a difference, time and time again this is met with hostility, government cuts and lack of respect.

To the two bobbies on here, there are a few of us who respect and understand the job your trying to do, keep it up!

I've stopped trying to justify myself as a bobby on here
Just keep plugging on catching criminals and helping normal folk!
Shit there I go again, you got me

fisha - Member

sofatester - Member

Do Police Officers when asked what there PC number is are they legally required to do so?

Yes, though in asking this question you automatically fail the attitude test.

Generally, if asked my number by a person I was speaking to, I would give it out to the person - reality is that its quite often an empty threat from a smart arse ... hence the fail of the attitude test so to speak.

Regarding wearing them: There is a set on my black body armour and a set on my yellow jacket. They are always left on. If not, its by accident, not by choice. Contrary to reported opinion, colleagues are decent folks and point out if you're missing them on your shoulders ( thats if they haven't turned them upside down that is ) As to whether its a legal requirement, TJ probably is right regarding it being policy

I wouldn't have asked for his number therefore i wouldn't have failed your test, however the PC involved failed my test(the bell end test) for his attitude alas he was wearing a Floro jacket with no visible numbers.

davesmate.

Police advice is to not put up a fight and give the scrotes what they want. I think this sends out the wrong message, you're telling them to feel free to mug people at knifepoint, nobody will resist you. Surely the best advice would be to assess the situation, if you feel you can do something then do so.

I think the problem is the police can't give advice to actively resist because the assessment of risk is very hard and tbh if the mugger has a knife you are likely to come of worst. Knives inflict catastrophic injuries very easily and sometimes without such an injury being the intended result, a wild slash can kill. In a previous job's training we used to tackle a "knife man" with no kit other than handcuffs, bear in mind we knew we were going to fight the bloke and were up for it we always got stabbed 🙂

You are within your rights (common law and echr) to use reasonable, even lethal, force to defend yourself and won't be prosecuted if you use reasonable force.

With regard to tracker devices for bikes you can get small gsm ones on e bay ( a mate was looking at them for his landrover) a bit of research may show battery ones that could be left in a saddle pouch under a spare tube if you're that concerned. I've used gsm trackers a lot and they are good but not used e bay ones so can't comment on their accuracy.

wonder what you'll do when you leave work and realise your house has been broken into and several expensive items have been stolen.

Report it to the police just so's you can get a crime reference number which you'll need to claim on your insurance.

I doubt most folk would really expect much else tbh. Most people I know who've bin burgled, the police jolly well have not even sent a SOCCO down to take fingerprints, and basically said 'there's not much we can do, other than give you a crime reference number for your insurance claim'. Which is all they've done when I've had a bike nicked.

I'm not expecting them to perform miracles, and I appreciate how difficult their jobs are much of the time, but public confidence in the police is at a real low, and it ain't helped by them killing innocent people, being involved in 'phone hacking scandals, bashing people exercising their democratic right to protest (not to mention using agents provocateurs to deliberately stir up trouble), and using false names when giving evidence under oath in court....

And lots of other bad things.

As for 'respect'; it's earned. Putting on a uniform and a badge does not in any way automatically qualify you for such. You need to do something to gain it first.