A new (I think) track has appeared on Pitch Hill, I wont say where but it has obviously been well ridden recently, and it looks quite fun too.

Just wanted to give a big shout out to the thoughtless tossers who've put another nail in the hurtwood mountain biking coffin.

Top work chaps!

If of course it's not new and tolerated I take this back, but I ride up there a lot and haven't seen it before, and the ground looked freshly dug.

Why has it put "another" nail in the coffin? Is it full of dangerous wooden structures?

Or did you just fancy a ride on your high horse?

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Hurtwood are clear that they wont support any more unsanctioned trail building. We're cut a fair amount of slack over there as it is, and as they just invested a fair bit in the new ending ot BKB (whatever people think of it) we're not doing ourselves any favours building more unsustainable trails.

It has two drop offs over fallen trees which are rideable for a competent rider, but with no attempt at building landings that will last, and they would be dangerous for inexperienced riders.

Much as I love challending tracks, I'd rather be able to ride than not.

Very happily on my high horse on this one 🙂

Not sure what happened with the link thing there, but anyway

good to see the undergroun is still active down there

Room on your horse for one more Icj? I'm with OP on this one.

We have no legal right to ride on Hurtwood land, we're there by kind permission. If they say don't build on their land there's no reason to build. Unless you're a selfish idiot who doesn't care about other people and doesn't care that if the biking community doesn't respect the reasonable requests of the landowner that the whole lot will be taken away from us.

*caveat, I haven't seen the trail and if it's not new, take this back. But as a matter of principle a little bit of respect from us will go along way in the eyes of the local community…

lcj,can you please make sure that it's a very big horse? I'll be joining you.

Jedi, the "underground" you praise is likely to reduce and ruin the riding enjoyment for the many. That's simply selfish and unnecessary. As lcj says,

Much as I love challending tracks, I'd rather be able to ride than not.

The whole area is one of permissive access. We need to work with the owners and authorities, and any unsanctioned building will just work against us.

you can never stop it. didnt any of you go out as kids and build?
people have ideas and get off their ass and make them real.
right or wrong .

Jedi, sorry to disagree so vehemently with you here, but I will.

Building is all well and good, when it is in a place where there isn't a massive amount of friction between the MTB community and the owners of the land. It's already been well documented and, as it happens, the powers that be down there are great with mountain biking. They've embraced it and welcomed it. They are working with people who know and care about the trails and who know and care about riding.

Would you have just built all of your Herts Shore in public land? Would you have built it on private land that wasn't yours to play with? No. The Surrey Hills aren't a trail centre. They're a very crowded area, with a lot of different interest groups involved.

We can only do well out of it by working with and in those interest groups, not by antagonising them. Surely as someone looking to promote and encourage cycling, you can understand that?

(Edit – I really must pester you to let me come and try your playground some time, looks great!)

disagreeing is ok.
i built on private land and have built on public land.
i have ridden and been higly influenced by the illegal builders many people dislike.
i do and always will doff my hat to them.

oh, and if you fancy a ride cfh at herts thats not a problem either.

Jedi, what's your point here? Surely private landowners' wishes should be respected? I'd be a bit miffed if someone came round my house and re-decorated the front room, same principle, surely?

yeah same thing if you allow people to ride through your house already.
its the builders who have led the progress of trailbuilding.
years ago people felt it was impossible to ride certain things but the builders built illeaglly until they became mainstream.

its the builders who have led the progress of trailbuilding.

Then build where such building is welcome and encouraged, not where the landowners have asked for you not to.

Hi all, just to say that i live and ride in that area an i can see both sides of the coin, but it will only end in one way and that's tears unless you just let the people responsible just do their job and just go out and enjoy whats there available for all to enjoy.

It is very unlikely and probably not possible for the Hurtwood Control Trust to stop Mtb'ing in the Hurtwood.

The land is covered by an access agreement that is nearly 90 years old. The area is set aside for the use of ALL.

However, any damage caused to someone elses land could be construed as not allowed. As such, anyone building trails/fences/car parks/digging a hole for any reason without permission is likely to be in a discussion with the land managing agent (the Hurtwood Control Trust)

two ways to look at it, don't build to maintan the status quo and good relations that Mtbers have currently with the Hurtwood Control, OR don't get caught.

ALL the current singletrack is pretty muddy, and dead at teh moment due to the weather. People will always build more trails when old ones get discovered and killed by the masses.

its the builders who have led the progress of trailbuilding.

and unsanctioned trailbuilding on pitch hill would probably see MTB's banned by the hurtwood.
selfish actions of the few will ruin it for everyone else

can't see how you'd actually enforce a ban in that area unless hurtwood employed A LOT more people.

That said, I'm all for peace and harmony, so will be riding stuff I believe to be established. Gives you the high ground when getting shouted at by the red sock brigade. 🙂

(edit – I would do a discreet mini-cap-doff to people who put the effort into building trails – it shows a passion and commitment for the sport while most of us simply go and ride what someone else has toiled over)

(edit – I would do a discreet mini-cap-doff to people who put the effort into building trails – it shows a passion and commitment for the sport while most of us simply go and ride what someone else has toiled over)

Passion and commitment, but also a complete and utter disregard for anyone other than themselves.

same damage as all the riders who take short cuts off built trails on sanctioned trails?

Sonor – Member
(edit – I would do a discreet mini-cap-doff to people who put the effort into building trails – it shows a passion and commitment for the sport while most of us simply go and ride what someone else has toiled over)
Passion and commitment, but also a complete and utter disregard for anyone other than themselves.

to be fair, it's the disregard for anyone but themselves which gave the the MTB community such good trails around there in the first place. I'm sure that had hurtwood caught on a little earlier, then no one would be allowed to ride around there.

still, as things are now, I'd say you'd have to be pretty silly/sneaky to be riding around there with a shovel strapped to your camelbak. But I won't grass if I see you 😉

whats the point of arguing on here? will the people who built it even read this message, and even if they did would they actually care if they cause a ban??

and unsanctioned trailbuilding on pitch hill would probably see MTB's banned by the hurtwood.
selfish actions of the few will ruin it for everyone else

All very fascinating but if it wasn't for all these 'illegal' trails the vast majority of you would still have to make do with pootling around on bridleways and towpaths. By their very nature trails like this are always out of the way and well hidden; the builders want then to be secret to save them from a hoard weekend warriors. If they're becoming discovered and a 'danger' the fault probably lies more at the door of the over popularity of the sport in a given area. Trying to lay the blame at the door of the unsanctioned trail builder is rather missing the point that its already too late. Clashes between different interest groups will be inevitable with or without them.

All I'm really saying is the new trails have always and will always be built, the real trouble only starts when too many people use them.

Perhaps all you riders that bang on about no more illegal building should make sure you only ever ride sanctioned routes and never talk about the possibility of any other trails; thus any new riders will never learn about or look for any other routes (unless they are very committed and when finding them by happy accident will keep mum). As a result, everybody is happy. Just a thought…

I must say I am in agreement with onewheeltoofew.

Perhaps it would be better for everyone if Hurtwood Control spent their time ensuring new trails are well built, rather than putting out blanket bans.

If a trail is poorly built then I am all in favour if it being closed until it can be made good.

I have said it before that surely trails such as these actually help divert mtb traffic away from the well used "walker" trails and therefore help maintain the relationships between the various land user groups.

Wow! it's not like its a motorway!
I have been Discreetly (with sensible timing (not sunday afternoons))riding "off piste" in my local woods since I started biking and actually took a similar view to a group that formed to formely "improve/sanitise" the existing legal trail network there.
These guys started lecturing on how it would jepardise their cherished waymarked trail if people insisted on riding the miles of established "cheeky" trails that had been there since these guys were born!

Now THAT is selfish in my view
"look, we built this so you MUST only ride our trail!" ……….. No

BTW there is probably a lot of people now that are going to turn your unauthorised route into a motorway because you just advertised its existence, breaking a bit of a northdowns rule there really.

🙂

agree with the point that none of the trails would be there if 'non-sanctioned' stuff had never been allowed BUT i believe the ban is only recent because of overcrowding so this argument never applied at the time those trails went in. Plus the point is we're being specifically asked not to build new stuff. How is ignoring this going to move us and the access debate forward exactly? It'll p*ss Hurtwoord and any 'anti' locals right off, that's for sure. Agree with the point about Hurtwood ensuring any new trails were well built but where do they get the money from? They're a charity with way more on their plate than our needs. Unless you want gates on the roads in asking for £10 to pass…

you just advertised its existence, breaking a bit of a northdowns rule there really.

i don't know of any northdowns rule? but then we are talking about the Surrey hills here where as far as the hurtwood is concerned they make the rules on the land they control.
but whatever building went on in the past whether sanctioned or not the hurtwood decided to draw a line and try to maintain and/or alter the existing trails to suit their agenda (which includes balancing the interests of walkers/horseriders/mtb'ers/residents) unsanctioned building doesn't help.
FWIW i have ridden with the builder of a lot of the trails that started off as secret and illegal, i'm very greatful for his efforts.
it would be a shame for these existing trails to be made off limits because of more building.

Can someone say where this trai is so that we can clarify whether it's legacy or not.

I was up there last weekend and didn't notice anything new.

i don't know of any northdowns rule?

That's just it!, there isn't one, at least not an "official" one, to use an all too worn-out term.

Its unspoken, and is what has happily kept these trails from being over-used as well as being public knowledge.
On the whole you will raise more curiosity about it than support against on here, I dare say there are a lot more views than posts on this topic.

This whole argument is pretty much null and void when you consider that Pitch Hill is not like Leith and Holmbury and is full of unsanctioned trails!

This new trail sounds pretty good, I'll have a look round for it next weekend. Happy days.

There are Two trails on Pitch Hill mainly for the Hardcore Trail
and Downhill riders for what ive seen and ridden

Think you find even with walking the more you walk in the same place it becomes a path.