[Closed] Pinkbike editors on drugs - or just thick?

Why not come back to us when you've ridden it.

CFH +1

Because anti-squat and pedal kickback values should give you an idea of how it does ride? Those values, do generally square up to how a bike rides in real life...

Because humans are biased in their reporting of how a bike rides? Where as those numbers will tell you how far off your biased judgement/placebo effect is, from the actual physics/engineering of what's actually going on.

The anti-squat curves go the wrong way really, increasing deeper in the travel when you don't need anti-squat but do want to minimise pedal kickback. Weird.

Also the anti-rise isn't particularly low, a bit lower than most short link 4 bars but higher than most Horst link etc 4 bars.

I wonder if there's a strongly regressive leverage curve like on the Tantrum bikes, which effectively jacks up the back end and holds it firm until a rearward force on the rear axle releases it?

The point all these "magic pedalling" long travel bikes that need minimal compression damping miss is that we don't just pedal, we pump and jump.

Because anti-squat and pedal kickback values should give you an idea of how it does ride? Those values, do generally square up to how a bike rides in real life...

Why not come back to us when you've ridden it.

Been at the sherry this eve?

Anyway, this Cunningham chap, what does he know, eh? Some Johnny Come Lately thinking he knows a thing or two about mountain bikes.

The bikerumour review is much better than the PB one and also hailed it as a miracle bike but I just don't see how. It looks like a crazy workaround for patents on dual short links (dw) just like yetis last few designs.

The anti squat looks like it will have masses of pedal kickback but I also have some faith in the reviewers having some honesty.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/04/12/a-new-era-of-kinematics-naild-r3act-2play-suspension-makes-the-polygon-square-one-ride-like-nothing-else/

Mehhh, it's a bike I'll never ride, I'm struggling to get too worked up about it.

I actually quite like the way Giant's pedal too. Which is probably more important than what a spreadsheet says.

And even more importantly, it's ugly, which is important in this instance because I won't be the one riding it!

Charlatans, Tom_W4.54609 is where it's at in 2017.

I wonder if there's a strongly regressive leverage curve like on the Tantrum bikes, which effectively jacks up the back end and holds it firm until a rearward force on the rear axle releases it?

They could easily supply that info, but decided and actually stated that they wouldn't - because apparently it would be too nerdy for the reader.

Which makes me think that is because people would see right through it/the article.

I tend to believe RC more than anyone else on bike reviews but it does seem a bit too gushing and pinkbike do certainly publish infomercials for cash.

The system is being licenced to other bike brands as well.

I wonder if any of them will be as, ahem, striking as this polygon.

Do you get this angry about everything in your life OP? You seem to lack a bit of perspective, if you don't mind me saying.

.....I think I just get "evidence based..." or "got data" reactions to everything I read these days chakaping....although I wasn't angry... more amused and perplexed than anything....at how blatantly review sites seem to be pushing products these days with little attempt to even pretend to be objective.

Has bicycle journalism always been this bad, or am I right in thinking that it's gotten worse?

Do you get this angry about everything in your life OP? You seem to lack a bit of perspective, if you don't mind me saying.

[b]chakaping[/b] you need to read Tom's posts on any Lyme disease thread. 😆

you need to read Tom's posts on any [s]Lyme disease[/s] thread

😉

I must admit....anything that needs evidence that is glossed over pretty much does it for me....just post some horseshit claim and about medicine/bikes etc without evidence and I'll go cross eyed and boil over The PTSD (Post Truth Stress Disorder) like reaction is even worse when someone claims they're not going to give you the evidence because to do so would be too confusing.

Blame Trump. The **** put the final nail in the coffin of my sanity.

#triggered 😆

You've just provided evidence that you're suffering from the intolerance-itis virus. Get well soon xx

😛

I think it might be incurable.

Voss had to work closely with Fox to provide an X2 shock with almost no rebound and compression damping to optimize its performance

why is no damping seen as a good thing? those icelandic forks were espousing the virtues too. bollocks i say

I must confess that I found the Peak Bullshit era of the mid 2000s a rather amusing time, given the plethora of frame designs and the marketing speak vomited onto screens to hype up the notion of spluffing £4k on what was then known as an "all mountain" bike.

Since then of course, we've had "murdered out", "brings the trail alive" and "game changing" bandied around until things seemed to settle down a bit of late.

What killed this Polygon for me was that the frame looked as though it was slavishly copied from one of those aborted Marin Alchemy bikes that were culled even before the unfortunate public got to see one in the wild.

I think it might be incurable.

I can recommend a [s]doctor[/s] quack. 😉

why is no damping seen as a good thing? those icelandic forks were espousing the virtues too. bollocks i say

No rebound damping sounds amusing - why no rebound damping? To cope with a regressive leverage ratio? It sounds like it's either going to bottom really easily - or pogo around if there is any decent amount of bottom out resistance.

Don't listen to them Tom, heathens the lot of them. When you move out of your parents place and have a mortgage and kids to worry about you won't have time to get worked up about this sort of thing anyway.

Big statement? Perhaps, but I have had the opportunity to trace the development of R3act 2 play, the first production version of the design, for three years running, and during that time, I watched some of the sport's heavy hitters scratch their heads in awe after riding the prototypes. More recently, I was given production-ready machines for final evaluation - an experience that made me wish I had not worn the words "groundbreaking" and "revolutionary" into cliches, because I have a proper use for them now. The Square One EX9 we introduce here has 180 millimeters of ultra plush rear suspension, but unless you were told, you wouldn't know that fact until you dropped into a rowdy descent. More about that later.

Perhaps things like this teach us the important lessons that a bike is more than a spreadsheet. The best way to see is to get on one and ride it, if it is really as good as it says it's a shame it's a mail order brand as it' the sort of thing you want being in demo's all over the place so people like Tom can have a go (though a disclaimer about humble pie eating would be needed)

I'm surprised anyone made it to the end of that article - it was so incoherent as to where the spiel ended and the review started... all the best laid plans in terms of suspension usually mean very little on the trail. There's a reasonably wide bracket for what feels good and what doesn't, beyond that its a personal thing I reckon based more on aspects like geo than suspension.

I couldn't finish it that and it's a fugly looking thing.

You've just provided evidence that you're suffering from the intolerance-itis virus. Get well soon xx

I like to think that Tom's intense fury about [b][i]everything[/i][/b] is confined to this forum, and that us reading his posts means that he isn't out there wearing a hat made of human skin and shooting a crossbow at cheerleaders and popular local weather forecasters.

🙂

I rather like the way it looks 🙂

I rather like the way it looks

Well, you do have a Jones 😉

https://dirtmountainbike.com/bike-reviews/trail-enduro-bikes/polygon-square-one.html

dirt like it too, interested to have a go, maybe its the future, if so the future is ugly...

maybe im a heathen but I think that you can adapt your style to any type of suspension and a decent tune, lockouts help if a bikes really bad at pedaling, most bike seem pretty wwell sorted these days

personally I think geometry makes a bigger difference,

[b]apparently[/b] a few other brands are putting out something with this suspension design too

'pedaled as well as the best 120 bikes'.
If your 120mm bike weighs 31lbs....and is running 2.6" tyres.
History is littered with the corpses of revolutionary suspension systems.

It's always worth remembering that every Sunday, highly skilled men and women riding a plethora of suspension designs across a number of disciplines have yet to establish the superiority of one suspension design at the expense of another. We've weeded out the dross over the last fifteen years, but it's safe to say that even your classic single pivot design, realised properly is no handicap for a competitive rider.

I'd argue that in 2017, it's about small incremental gains and not some revolutionary new design.

I certainly wouldn't judge the bike at this stage, but it seems like the press only rode it on relatively tame trails.

Could well turn out to have an achilles heel when tested more rigorously.

If the aesthetics aren't already it's achilles heel, obvs.

I'd argue that in 2017, it's about small incremental gains and not some revolutionary new design.

I think it's also about suspension behaviour being intuitive, which is where the Kona MagicLink designs fell down. I remain open-minded with this because Dirt, BikeRumor and Pinkbike are all liking it, so it can't be totally wrong. But I disagree that if a bike pedals well you can never have too much travel - lots of nice singletrack is better on shorter travel bikes and not because they pedal better.

. When you move out of your parents place and have a mortgage and kids to worry about you won't have time to get worked up about this sort of thing anyway.

Mortgage for a flat in centrual Lodon? Hahahahahah - I wish - maybe if the wife gets a job earning 150k in a hedge fund.

Am I the only one here that actually quite likes the way the bike looks though?

I can't comment on the anti squat thing but I do agree with some of the sentiment up there IE:
1) Proper data or facts helps you discern the difference between feel and reality.
2) Magazines/websites are surely influenced by trends, boredom, advertisers, person gripes, etc etc.
3) The last point by PJ seems to hold true, it is pretty hard to buy a crap bike these days, they are all bloody good.

Am I the only one here that actually quite likes the way the bike looks though?

Yes

So apparently Im a bicycle deviant as well....as well as an enthusiast of crossbows and cheerleader according to you lot.

Great.

Hang on!
Is that a spring connected to a wheel!!
Viva la Revolution!!!

Pinkbike

Here is a suspension system that can deliver better pedaling, superior suspension action, and greater versatility - and it requires no special components

No special components? Well other than a unique, specifically designed linear sliding element bearing and support tube. Oh, and a custom rear swing arm and custom through axle to get enough torsional strength, and that relocated custom bottom bracket, ah, and a special shock tune, and that wide spread shock actuation yoke, but other than that, no special parts what-so-ever........

Well the only one of those things I would say is special is the first one, a radical re-thinking of the "short link plus a sliding pillar" type of thing seen on the Maverick. Not sure what "custom" means in the context of a new bike design.

But it looks interesting and I quite like how it looks as well.

maybe if the wife gets a job earning 150k in a hedge fund

Why don't you get a job with a hedge fund? Or move somewhere cheaper?

I don't get the " shock with no compression damping" thing, i don't think any linkage can tell the difference between high and low speed compression, a shock can.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/marin-wolf-ridge-first-ride.html

Is the Wolf Ridge the perfect trail bike? It's delightfully good, but thirty pounds is the borderline for a do-it-all trail bike, and the mono-stay swingarm occupies the full width of the crank arms, so if your heels drift inward, you will be scraping it often. Caveats aside, there is much more to love about the product of Marin's partnership with Naild. I'll have to admit that the damn thing works as advertised. So, what's next? A trip to B.C., where we will hopefully get a chance to put the Wolf Ridge Pro and its R3act 2 play suspension to task in an entirely different and perhaps, more hostile environment for a comprehensive review.

He is at it again, you can smell the smoke in that one 😉

Looks like Marin will be putting something out there you can test.

Well the usual rather cringe-worth marketing stuff:

The short version is that its sturdy mono-stay swingarm telescopes on a tubular aluminum stanchion, which, in conjunction with a rocker link control arm, provides a measured amount of anti-squat action throughout the bike's suspension travel...

... and gear range.

The telescoping action works to balance the suspension's anti-squat function against the rider's mass close to equilibrium...

... which frees the system to react to the terrain without the need for excessive damping or spring force.

Translated, that means...

one thing i find really interesting is theres a pressure relief valve on the rocker arm as pressure builds up inside it!!!!