Have any of the collective started a full time PhD later on in life? Just wondered what their experiences of it was and if it was in worthwhile in the long term?

I finished a post grad MSc in 2007 and have not been able to find any real employment since then, instead I have fallen back into pre-undergrad work which is not particularly satisfying on both a ??? and financial terms.

I have found a PhD which looks really interesting and has a really good stipend of £20k pa!! My big concern is that if I do this that I might not be in any better a position than I am right now, in that I might not find any suitable employment. Before I started my MSc I asked the course director what the employment prospects were and he replied that he had never had a student not get a job after it!! After speaking to my old supervisor he said that if I want to do the PhD I should but not to do it to get a job.

I forgot, the subject is in Electrical Power Engineering

Just wondering what other peoples experiences were, mainly with employment after their PhD

cheers

You supervisor is wise. A phd will limit career opportunities rather than expand them. Employers don’t look for a clever person any more. They want experience in a particular field. Sad but true. If you want to stay in academia long term, and enjoy research, view that as your career choice. Good luck, and don’t make the choice lightly.

I don’t have a PhD but have employed a lot of engineers (have been VP Engineering for two companies) and personally I would say that having a PhD would not be seen in any way as a benefit and is often interpreted as having 3 years less ‘real world’ experience.

By all means do it if the subject really interests you, but don’t see it as a ticket to a well paid job.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Im caught in a bit on no mans land, no experience to get a job and cant get any more experience without getting a job. Ive tried to offer my services to engineering companies on a no cost basis, even for small projects but that doesnt seem to be productive.

I was hoping/thinking that doing the PhD would give me some more up to date relevant experience and refresh my skills. As well as a steady job for 3 1/2 years.

Im petrified that if I dont get something really soon then my qualifications will be worthless, it seems they already are, and ill never manage to get in the loop.

Much thinking I guess.

Thanks again

I started doing one in my 30’s part-time, but it was too much of a commitment on a part-time basis, so I withdrew after about 5 years. I don’t think that you will have any issues doing it full-time, however unless you are planning to become an academic, or joining an organisation with a strong academic slant e.g CERN, DSTL etc. then it may be of limited benefit.

A lifetime or career in Academia is not really what I envisaged doing but there are possibly worse options.

turin… when you say electrical power engineering, what do you mean? Generation/distribution or power electronics?

Anyway, I’d say the answer is that it depends a lot on which Uni it is at, and what the subject of the research is.

I’m just writing up a PhD in power electronics and it was that which got me my current job…

Power electronics? Sure, go for it.

If it was a PhD in modern history, i’d say forget it, but power engineering will open a few doors.

But remember, having a PhD is no means an easy way into a job. You’ll be just as likely to be shortlisted for a job as someone with no experience and a MEng. (Unless it’s exactly about what you researched)

By the way, all the people i know who did PhDs are now university lecturers. (Apart from the CEO of the multinational company i work for :P)

nick,

My MSc was Electrical Power Engineering with Business and the PhD’s I am looking at are in the Power Networks side of things. The funding for them is from EPSRC. Its at the University of Strathclyde, which is where I done the MSc.

Where was/is yours?

I found myself unemployed for 8 months immediately after my MSc (finished sept 2008)

But I applied for everything, evening work in shops and graduate jobs… was stressful but I then landed shift work for the summer in a factory assembling computers (physical work/min wage)… I was two weeks into that thinking I’d be there for the summer and then be stuck again.. when I got offered what my first proper permanent job…

If I were you I’d hammer the jobs but still consider a phd one day.. but get some work under your belt.. because I think once you do a phd you really do narrow the number of people who will take you on… a lot of them will deem you to be overqualified or too academic (experience wise)

this is just my opinion

It’s 3 years guaranteed pay, which shouldn’t be overlooked. If your passionate about it then do it, once you have it it can’t be taken away, but getting it won’t be easy trust me. You will want to quit a year in and you have to really want it in order to stay with it.

I would say you are certainly not too old, but whether it is the right thing to do is a different matter.

I don’t know the industry/field so I don’t know whether it is one in which higher qualifications are seen as an asset or not. If not then you need to have a really good think about what your true motivations are.

IME PhD’s are really hard work, not necessarily intellectually but in terms of self resilience and maintaining a single narrow focus for 3 or more years, something you will probably only do once in your life.

Have you thought about other more general careers?

I have always thought that Engineering Graduates are very well respected across most fields, Engineering degrees are some of the toughest based on my friends experiences compared with my own, although I am a lot older and in my early graduation days the competition for graduate level jobs was nothing like as stiff as I am led to believe at the moment.

thanks for the input and the comments.

I agree with the suggestions that a PhD is perhaps not necessarily going to lead to a job. The idea that doing it would also limit the potential employers for various reasons is a concern.

I do think that I would be able to focus on it for the duration, i do get a strange enjoyment out of studying which, by my own admissions has got me through the previous studies as I am not the most intellectual person but I do put the hard graft in.

GJP – I used to think exactly the same as you do about being able to transfer the skill set but it doesnt appear to be possible for me. Whether that is primarily down to the economic climate or just down to me and my CV Im unsure, but its not for the lack of my efforts in job hunting. Ive been trying to develop with some CPD in the form of chartered engineer but it appears that I really need to have working experience for this, or further studies?? I am a member of the IET which I thought would help but it doesnt appear to be.

If you’re struggling to open any doors at the moment, I don’t see that having a phd would be a negative thing. The power engineering dept at strathclyde has a fantastic reputation in the industry, with lots of involvement from private sector companies (i did my BEng at strathclyde, but focussed more on comms). Should allow some contacts to be made. Couple that with the potential of Scotland renewables sector, and I would think that it could be a real opportunity if you play your cards right.

I would like to do a phd at some point, but will need to wait until the kids are a bit older. To get paid to do it would make it so much easier.

Its at the University of Strathclyde, which is where I done the MSc.

Best double check the grammar in your CV and supporting letters too.

turin,

I’m doing my PhD at Nottingham, which is where I did my MSc as well, also in power electronics.

I’m afraid I know little about the networks and supply side of the game, being an inverter and drives kinda guy, so a lot will really depend on the subject of the PhD and whether it’s likely to be interesting to industry, or whether it’s a purely academic piece of work. You’d really need to take a look at the subject and decide if you think it’s going to be relevant in 3-4 years time…

Also I’d say that if the stipend for the PhD is 20k a year, it’s being sponsored by industry, and so it’s likely that you will be able to look for a place with the sponsoring company once you complete. Oh, and unless things have changed, that will be tax-free as well… :o)

kevin – the Scottish renewable sector, I was kind of hoping that was where I would be working now. But it is definitely where I would like to be.

uponthedowns – will do, no excuse.

nick – It would appear that its likely to be relevant but perhaps a bit ahead of its time, its related to a study/investigation into future power networks,and has the hot subject of “low carbon” and its funded from EPSRC

it is indeed tax free, coupling that with no council tax makes it a pretty decent income and certainly more than I am on just now.

A bit concerned that Ill be just over 40 when I finished it

A PhD in a suitable subject will open doors left right and centre. A PhD if you’re looking at going into basic engineering levels in any of the eng disciplines/posts will of course close a few. From recent discussions with recent PhD graduates in the same subject, several applied to posts late and leapfrogged the initial selection process pretty much on the spot after a lunch with the recruiting manager. Of course this is largely down to them being good students and knowledgeable in their field, but that kind of goes without saying.

Don’t do a PhD for the job that you can’t guarantee you’ll get, do it for the fact that you like the subject. It’s also remarkably easy to jump outside of your specialist field once you have a PhD in an engineering subject if you have some nouse. End of the day, if you’re a good engineer you’re a good engineer, if not a PhD won’t help you and you may not get it anyway.

Turin, to answer your original question, “just over 40 when I finish it” is not too old. I’m 48 and six months into my PhD. Like you, I tried to get work in my field after my Masters but I couldn’t find a job (and yes, I do think age had something to do with it!), so took the PhD as the backup option.

I don’t think the PhD will make me any more employable, and in fact agree with others above that it might make me less employable. However, it’s a guaranteed income for three years, and can take the pressure off whilst you continue to look for a job.

I have chosen my topic carefully so that it keeps me close to industry, rather than locking myself away in an ivory academic tower for three years, and I’ve joined every industry body and go to every industry event thats going, to keep up the networking. For someone our age, I think we’re much more likely to get a job through personal recommendation and networking than through a CV sent in response to a job ad. So, my advice would be to take the guaranteed income, but at the same time step up the job search and get stuck into some good old fashioned ‘networking’. Hopefully you’ll get offered a job along the way, and can then ditch the PhD or go part time. If you don’t, then I don’t think you’d be any worse off, and you’d have that nice piece of paper to be proud of!