Paramo - why the love? « Singletrack Forum

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Paramo - why the love?

79 posts & 38 voices | Started 4 months ago by ditch_jockey | Latest reply from molgrips

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ditch_jockey - Member

I've never really seen the appeal of Paramo kit - I had a brief flirtation with a Velez Adventure Light, which I didn't get on with. I found it far too warm to wear over a base layer even for bimbly dog walk in the summer, and according to the Paramo website, it isn't up to the job as a winter shell, despite being heavier than my current. I found some of the design decisions pretty weird - like adding the bulk of handwarmer pockets that could only be accessed by unzipping the side zips for the main body of the jacket.

I thought I'd have another go, so bought a pair of 2nd hand Aspira salopettes for winter walking - I hate using overtrousers, and several folks I know swear by them. They've just arrived, and I was somewhat surprised to discover they have what appears to be a built in incontinence pad over the butt and down the back of the legs, as well as two more pads on the knees. Doing a wee bit of googling, it appears that these are foam pads to stop the trousers from leaking!

Is it just me, or is there kit really a bit 'emperor's new clothes'?

Posted 4 months ago #
thegreatape - Member

You can take the foam out. They shouldn't leak just walking about, only if you sit or kneel somewhere wet.

Don't know if it's emperor's new clothes - it's been around for some time. Look at it as a heavy duty softshell rather than an out and out waterproof maybe.

I use it a lot, but I live in the West Highlands, where it just rains and rains. So for here it's ideal.

If I lived in the dryer, colder Alps I'd probably use something else.

Horses for courses?

My current favourite is Cascada trousers and an Aspira jacket (long enough to cover my arse), with only a short sleeve base layer underneath. It looks shit, I'm the first to admit, but I stay warm and dry, which is all that matters.

Posted 4 months ago #
scaredypants - Member

Don't own any of their stuff and not really aware of them at all, however

they're flogging them as some sort of all-day-wearable shizzle
Added protection and insulation via our unique slimline removable knee foam inserts

Assume the arse-sert will be for similar purpose, ie insulation & comfiness while bivvying or something ?

Posted 4 months ago #
tonyd - Member

I've got a Velez thingummy, not the adventure one, the one with the detachable hood. I must say the hand warmers inside the zips confuse me a little, but perhaps they are just that - somewhere to warm your hands rather than pockets. I never really use them.

I also find mine very warm and use it more as a winter shell. All in all I like it though, good water resistance, doesn't rustle like a lot of other kit, fits well, very comfortable. I'd wear it a lot more if I lived somewhere colder!

Posted 4 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

With Goretex you get wet from the inside of the jacket if you're working hard. Paramo is designed to sacrifice some of that waterproofing to prevent that getting wet from the inside. Obviously if you're mot working hard then it'll n ot be the best option for you.

I wouldnt wear it the hills in winter as you go like greased shit off a teflon shovel if you fall over on snow.

Posted 4 months ago #
thegreatape - Member

SBZ prepares for a walk in the snow.

Posted 4 months ago #
MSP - Member

The theory of the materials sounds good, shame they don't try and do some more cycling specific designs.

Posted 4 months ago #
Kenny Senior - Member

I wouldnt wear it the hills in winter as you go like greased shit off a teflon shovel if you fall over on snow.

You might not, but plenty of MRTs and Mountaineering Instructors wear it, so evidently it's fine for that.

Still, good to have a handy excuse for your own incompetence I suppose.

Posted 4 months ago #
mav12 - Member

think it is love or hate i love it, i aspira kit is for extreme cold weather i have the velez adventure (not the light)which is fine for cold weather you only need very little underneath i usally wear a very thin microfleece
i have cascada trousers which are really comfy for cold weather i think its all over priced though as is most walking kit plenty on fleabay

Posted 4 months ago #
ditch_jockey - Member

I wouldnt wear it the hills in winter as you go like greased shit off a teflon shovel if you fall over on snow.

On the occasions when I've intentionally taken the quick way down a hill, I can't say I've noticed Event or Goretex offering much in the way of friction either. I'd have thought if you went off your feet through clumsiness or misfortune on a snow slope that was steep/hard enough, your choice of shell material is going to be pretty immaterial.

Posted 4 months ago #
chiefgrooveguru - Member

The performance is outstanding in many conditions. You need to wear less under it than with other waterproofs due to the extra insulation, and you need to clean it regularly (they say wash it as often as you'd wash a jumper - I'm slack and only tended to wash it annually or thereabouts and had a damp arm experience) or it'll leak in heavy rain.

I've worn a Velez smock and Cascada trousers for skiing in sub -20 conditions (lifts closing down and everyone leaving the mountain) and the Velez smock for tons of hillwalking, horseriding, cycling and casual use (trousers are good when it's properly cold and wet - best on their own, not over other trousers, because then you can vent them well). They're big and heavy if you're just keeping them in your pack and the cut is annoyingly middle-aged.

In terms of breathability in UK conditions (wet, humid and not really cold) they make membrane/coating based waterproofs look like plastic bags. Just wish they'd make more that suits younger or more athletic people! Velez and Quito are the least bad in that sense. Clearly they make plenty of money going after the other market sectors... Nice ethical approach too.

Posted 4 months ago #
bjj.andy.w - Member

Got several garments of paramo and recommend it tbh.
Quito jacket
Use this as my all season foul weather walking/winter biking jacket. Although its billed as their lightweight high activity jacket in summer it gets to hot for biking in. But then again my berghouse goretex was as well.
Ferura windproof
Brilliant bit of kit, my go to jacket for most of the year. Packs down small. Not as small as the montane velo but it's far more robust. Come off the bike several times and it's always come out unscathed. Coat it with tx direct and it will stand a good hour of persistant rain. Very breathable as well.
Velez adventure trousers
Use these for walking the dog/ pottering about in the rain and have no complaints of them whatsoever.
One of the things I like about paramo is there lifetime guarantee. Wife has some 4yr old cascarda pants which had its stitching came undone around the crotch area. Sent them off and within a week came back fixed, cleaned and reproofed. They were as good as new.

Posted 4 months ago #
stilltortoise - Member

Paramo - why the love?

It works. I only got my Velez back in September but I've banged on about it several times on here already. It's the only jacket i've ever owned that is satisfactorily waterproof and breathable for the activities I do.

they make membrane/coating based waterproofs look like plastic bags.

+1

Posted 4 months ago #
B.A.Nana - Member

I had the 1st generation Paramo salopettes back in the early nineties, they were pretty useless in UK for 9 months and summer Alpinism, just far far too warm. They spent most of their time hanging off me, completely unzipped. They possibly came into their own in the winter, a Scottish Blizzard perhaps. never bothered with their stuff since. Like someone says, when pressed against something ie wearing a harness or sitting on a rock, moisture just soaked thru.

Posted 4 months ago #
Green - Member

Isn't the Aspira range aimed at mountaineers, hence the crampon patches, reinforced knees, drop seat etc.? I tried on a pair in pegglars last winter and they seemed good, just overkill for what I wanted.

I do have a torres smock from Paramo, which is great for pulling on whilst belaying or at food stops, pretty bulky compared to a down jacket, but being able to put it over a wet shell means it's ideal for UK mountains.

Posted 4 months ago #
Surrounded By Zulus - Member

Why the need to say that you think I'm incompetent in the mountains? I merely pointed out that my experience shows me that Paramo gear leads to a faster decent on snow that other materials. Used to get kit given to me from Paramo and Berghaus for free to test in the hills.

Posted 4 months ago #
Kenny Senior - Member

The bit about incompetence was just in jest, don't take it seriously.

Posted 4 months ago #
Kenny Senior - Member

In fact, I retract it, it sounds mean.

Posted 4 months ago #
Sandwich - Member

If it's too warm in winter you're wearing too many layers under it.

Posted 4 months ago #
Bimbler - Member

Love my Quito jacket, too much really because I never use it on the bike, just for bodding around in. Would definitely buy again.

Posted 4 months ago #
growmac - Member

Paramo is completely unsuitable for sumer use, even more than Gore-Tex, it's far too hot, but it's fabulous for winter (<8 degrees for me). Compared to shells, I find it far, far more breathable, completely waterproof (in real life - far more so than any shell I've ever used), and suitable for venting or closing up without losing its breathability. And it doesn't rustle and is generally really comfortable.

Now if they would only sort out the styling to be even an tiny bit more stylish!

Posted 4 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

Do they do a waterproof-equivalent for bikers?

Posted 4 months ago #
kudos100 - Member

I own a paramo smock. One of the best bits of kit I have ever bought. Windproof, shower resistant and a very good level of breathability.

Posted 4 months ago #
stilltortoise - Member

Do they do a waterproof-equivalent for bikers?

I use my Velez for road and mountain biking. It is ace and without doubt the best waterproof/breathable I have ever used for cycling.

Posted 4 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

Ta...available from £120 it seems, are they that much more real-life breathable than the usual?

Posted 4 months ago #
inbred853 - Member

I've had a Paramo jacket, forget which, for going on ten years now. It's got a drop tail to cover my rear and has been used on the trail and pressed into general commuting use.
I clean it once in a while with Nik Wax wash and reproof it and it still works amazingly well. It's also had a few spills which would have finished off a membrane jacket, such as my Sombrio which ripped the first time I had an off.
Have to agree on the style front though, a bit bland looking.

Posted 4 months ago #
tallgavin - Member

Having written for a few outdoor/climbing magazines over the years I have a belief that the best bits of kit are those you don't talk about. You don't talk about them 'cause you just get on and use them and they do what you want them to do. Yep, Paramo stuff is on the hot side, yep, if you sit down on wet your bum will get wet after a while. But, over the years all of my Paramo gear is the stuff I go for when in doubt as I know it will simply 'work'. I think you learn to love Paramo over time. When you've had one pair of their trousers for 15 years and they're still going strong you tend to, on reflection, realise how great the stuff is. I've tried all sorts of brands and technologies but for really shite, cold and wet weather it's the best there is. Scottish mountaineers who face some of the worst weather in the Isles have a deep love for the stuff!

Posted 4 months ago #
stilltortoise - Member

are they that much more real-life breathable than the usual?

Assuming you mean "usual waterproofs" then in my experience yes. It's the only jacket I've ridden with in horrible rain and still felt comfortably dry and warm.

Posted 4 months ago #
stilltortoise - Member

...the best bits of kit are those you don't talk about

although when I "discovered" Paramo I couldn't stop raving about it to anyone who would listen. I've only converted my Dad so far

Posted 4 months ago #
bjj.andy.w - Member

The amount of mountain rescue teams that use it also speaks volumes.

Posted 4 months ago #
ditch_jockey - Member

Scottish mountaineers who face some of the worst weather in the Isles have a deep love for the stuff!

The instructor on a course I did a couple of years back was part of an MRT team and he raved about his Aspira salopettes when we were chatting gear in the pub - it was largely that recommendation that's resulted in me buying this pair to try them out.

Posted 4 months ago #
cynic-al - Member

Hmmm Velez 2nds £100 on fleabay actually...720gm seems bloody heavy, how many layers?

Posted 4 months ago #
tallgavin - Member

Hmmm Velez 2nds £100 on fleabay actually...720gm seems bloody heavy, how many layers?

Yep - a bit heavy but wear less under it. Their stuff is better worn and not carried.

Posted 4 months ago #
mav12 - Member

Hmmm Velez 2nds £100 on fleabay actually...720gm seems bloody heavy, how many layers?

Yep - a bit heavy but wear less under it. Their stuff is better worn and not carried.

there are 3 velez versions the older one with detachable hood is the heaviest then the velez adventure then the velez adventure light

Posted 4 months ago #
epicyclo - Member

The nice thing is you can layer more on top even when they're wet.

None of this stripping off to add another base layer nonsense.

Posted 4 months ago #