Are Pace frames any good? I just don't seem to hear or seen much about them especially their full-suspension bikes.
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Pace Frames
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Posted 1 year ago #
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I've had an rc405 full susser for 3 years now and love it. I've not read about them much recently but when I was looking they were getting consistently good write ups. Only issue is that now, after 3 years of practically no maintainance, all the bearings and bushings seem to be going at the same time.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Pace are the exact opposite of Hope when it comes to customer service.
I wouldn't have another Pace frame if it was given to me for nothing, you can pretty much guarantee you'll be left to rot by Pace.Posted 1 year ago # -
I reviewed Pace RC405 frames for a month before getting an Ellsworth.
To be honest they were on offer on CRC for £999, making it one of the more cost effective frames on the market. I serached hundreds of reviews and 95% seem to rave about them. The only complaints were poor paint quality ? (helli tape in selected places would sort this out), and Pace service, all of which were eventualy sorted out though.
They also are a very fine looking frame and surprisingly ubr rare on the trail, this for me is reason alone to buy one. Also arent they made in Germany ?, dont recall any mention of poor build / weld quality.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ignore the reviews, ride one before you buy it. It's polar opposite in ride characteristics from other frames which it appears at first glance to be similar to.
Posted 1 year ago # -
you can pretty much guarantee you'll be left to rot by Pace
That's not my experience at all in the past. Pace were excellent to me with forks.
It's polar opposite in ride characteristics from other frames which it appears at first glance to be similar to
Care to elaborate? I'm interested.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm with geordiepaul here. I've not ridden their suspension bikes. I do have a 305 that I really like but based purely on my experience with their customer service, I'd rather give up riding than give them any of my hard earned.
Posted 1 year ago # -
molgrips - Member
Care to elaborate? I'm interested.Imagine how it might feel to ride a bike with a massively falling rate (so much so that even with a tiny air can, the overall rate is still falling throughout the stroke). *
I think if you are a very good rider, or used to a hardtail it could work well. It has basically no pedal bob at all. Certainly no need for propedal or similar, even on the road.
Bump performance is poor in my opinion for small stuff, so traction is not as good as other full suspension bikes, like your Orange Five, or my Trance X which has replaced my 405. You can't be lazy and sit'n'spin up rocky trails.
Medium and large bump performance is alright, especially at speed, where rocks and roots are handled well. It's a blast to ride on the Skyline descent, for instance. Really feels on the edge.What is not good at all, is its handling of landings, berms, 'whoops' etc where it tends to sink far too deeply into the travel. It is difficult to control in this situation. Also on largish rocks at slow speed, like riding down the centre of the Beast in the Peak district. Every step down results in an unpredictable result from the rear sus. Sometimes you'll stay in the stiff bit of initial travel and get virtually no movement, other times it'll bottom out and it becomes difficult to control seemingly at random.
* Note that Adrian denied this when I asked him, so it is my opinion only (though the library models in Linkage, from bikechecker.com appear to confirm it).
Posted 1 year ago # -
Another 405 owner here with no paint snags, no complaints about customer service (although bits can be pricey) and reckon it's a fine handling, nice looking bike. Has given me confidence in drops/jumps and some of the FOD DH tracks. I am a bit of a wimp though but sure the bike can do more than I can.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Some mixed feelings about them then
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've had an RC405 for about three years now and really like it. I guess I treat it like a hardcore hardtail on steroids, it's not a floaty, 'sit in it and it'll just cruise over everything like sofa sort of full susser' - a mate of mine who was looking for something like that, tried it and hated it as a result - but it pedals really well and still stays active.
As for not being able to pedal up rocky climbs, you're kidding - I ride a lot in the Peak, it's where I live, and it's the best climbing bike I've ridden including a Maverick ML7, which is/was renowned for being an ace techical climber. It doesn't suit pussy-footing around and if that's what you do, go and buy this week's flavour of the month, a Zesty or something. Or a Whyte 46, possibly the least connected, awful, foul-steering, floaty can of worms I've ever ridden, but ace at simply drifting over trail obstacles.
Anyway, my take, fwiw, is that it suits an aggressive/forceful sort of approach and if that's not you, it's arguably not your sort of bike. The bearings, fwiw, have been changed just once despite a massive amount of Peak abuse in all conditions, which is extraordinary compared with most suspension bikes in the same circumstances, shock DU inserts get changed rather more often, but it's not exactly a big deal.
As for the Retro83 experience, you're the bloke with the RP23 on his 405 right? Sounds like the shock is crap on that bike, actually, I know it is. I had a standard RP23 and it basically was either too hard or blew through its travel way too easily. Pushing it sorted it out, but the DT Swiss original shock works really well and feels floatier, but less controlled.
I just had a look at your RC405 classifieds ad, this is what it says:
'It was bought in Dec 2008 but not ridden until July 2009. Since then it's been used for bridleway pootling in Essex and maybe 2 or 3 trail centre visits'
So that puts your comments in some sort of context, unless of course you're lying about the use you've put the bike to?
And diddums, it has ' bit of cable rub under the BB before I noticed it and got helitape on there'.
Sorry, but in that context, I'm afraid I take your analysis of the frame with a rather large pinch of salt. I'm not saying I'm some sort of demon expert rider - anyone who's ridden with me will vouch for that - but at least I use the thing regularly on proper techy, rocky trails - Peak District, southern Spain, Pyrenees, Scotland etc - have you ever ridden a 405 with the standard DT Swiss shock? It feels quite different and doesn't tally with what you're saying in my experience.
Cable rub under the bottom bracket eh... And you put copter tape on it... More of an issue is that the cable run goes straight over a sharp edge there and can simply sever the rear brake hose as a result - rock, edge, cut. I used some electrical cable protector stuff.
Don't know about Pace's customer service more generally, but they've always been really helpful when I've contacted them for the odd spare or technical advice on bearing sizes etc.
Anyway... personally I'd get a test ride if you can...
Posted 1 year ago # -
BadlyWiredDog - Member
As for the Retro83 experience, you're the bloke with the RP23 on his 405 right? Sounds like the shock is crap on that bike, actually, I know it is. I had a standard RP23 and it basically was either too hard or blew through its travel way too easily. Pushing it sorted it out, but the DT Swiss original shock works really well and feels floatier, but less controlled.I just had a look at your RC405 classifieds ad, this is what it says:
'It was bought in Dec 2008 but not ridden until July 2009. Since then it's been used for bridleway pootling in Essex and maybe 2 or 3 trail centre visits'
So that puts your comments in some sort of context, unless of course you're lying about the use you've put the bike to?
Heh. Bit defensive there are we?
You know what? I stand by everything I've said.
I REALLY wanted to like the frame. It was immediately obvious that it didn't work the way I wanted it to. I spent a great deal of cash trying to sort it because I REALLY wanted it to work properly.
1. It's had at least 3 different shocks on it, it is not a problem with (any of) of the shocks. It is inherent to the design of the frame. I also had the RP23 Pushed which STILL did not sort the issues out. It cannot, because they are inherent to the design. In actual fact of the three, the Pushed RP23 was by far the best on that bike. TF Tuned did a fantastic job getting the tuning of the damper right.
I also tried different air cans for each of the shocks, and even the big hit kit to ramp the last bit of the stroke up.
I also tried (again at reasonable expense) getting Enduro Roller Bearings fitted to the shock in an attempt to make it a little more active. Again, little difference because it is inherent to the design of the frame. And again, check the linkage model to see the reason behind this. It is plainly obvious.2. I had not ridden it as much as I would have wanted to, because it was simply not pleasant for me to ride. I have already done more miles in one month on my new frame than I did in 2 years ownership of the 405. I actually want to ride it. As for where I've ridden it: Peak District, Afan, Betws-Y-Coed, Aston Hill. Plenty of rocks and roots, thanks. And my local bridleways are very rutted from horses/tractors. Hence problems with small/mid bump absorption are plainly apparent when taken at any speed.
3. If you think the suspension works well on that bike, ride some other bikes. I'm not very fit compared to most superstars on here, but I like to think that I am technically competent. That frame always was a hinderance. It's fun at high speed because it is so unpredictable. For me it is the worst bits of having a hardtail and a full sus without the good points of either.
And diddums, it has ' bit of cable rub under the BB before I noticed it and got helitape on there'.
Sorry, but in that context, I'm afraid I take your analysis of the frame with a rather large pinch of salt. I'm not saying I'm some sort of demon expert rider - anyone who's ridden with me will vouch for that - but at least I use the thing regularly on proper techy, rocky trails - Peak District, southern Spain, Pyrenees, Scotland etc - have you ever ridden a 405 with the standard DT Swiss shock? It feels quite different and doesn't tally with what you're saying in my experience.
Eh? I wasn't complaining about that cable rub, merely including it for completeness in the ad. Bizarre thing to pick me up on. And anyhow it shows how much I cared for and tried to keep my frame in good nick. In fact it was heli-taped and waxed from new, that's how much I like (the look of) it. I wanted to keep it long term.
Honestly I could not give a crap if you take issue with my thoughts on the frame but I like to think it would at least encourage people to take a test ride first.
Honestly I think it's the most disappointing purchase I've ever made. I'd always wanted a Pace frame since I first saw the square tubed one (whose name has slipped my mind).
Posted 1 year ago # -
1. It's had 3 different shocks on it, it is not a problem with (any of) of the shocks. It is inherent to the design of the frame. I also had the RP23 Pushed which STILL did not sort the issues out. It cannot, because they are inherent to the design. In actual fact of the three, the Pushed RP23 was by far the best on that bike. I also tried different air cans for each, and even the big hit kit to ramp the last bit of the stroke up.
So you haven't ridden it with the DT Swiss shock, the one it was designed around?
Posted 1 year ago # -
BadlyWiredDog - Member
1. It's had 3 different shocks on it, it is not a problem with (any of) of the shocks. It is inherent to the design of the frame. I also had the RP23 Pushed which STILL did not sort the issues out. It cannot, because they are inherent to the design. In actual fact of the three, the Pushed RP23 was by far the best on that bike. I also tried different air cans for each, and even the big hit kit to ramp the last bit of the stroke up.
So you haven't ridden it with the DT Swiss shock, the one it was designed around?Yes, although it was sold to me with a Monarch shock fitted (from the factory) so it should have worked properly with this.
The DT swiss shock performed so badly that I thought it was broken. Practically undamped, but apparently 'that's how they are'. I have it knocking about somewhere still with a damaged stanchion (uneconomical to replace apparently).
In actual fact, 4 shocks i'd tried on it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The DT swiss shock performed so badly that I thought it was broken. Practically undamped, but apparently 'that's how they are'.
Are you unusually heavy?
Posted 1 year ago # -
BadlyWiredDog - Member
The DT swiss shock performed so badly that I thought it was broken. Practically undamped, but apparently 'that's how they are'.
Are you unusually heavy?89kg at my fattest. Unusually heavy for a mountain biker probably.
Just a question for you, have you ever hit a dirt jump or a drop on it? If so did the rockers hit the seat-tube per chance?
Also aside from the Pace, what other full sus bikes do you think ride well? I would consider most horst-link bikes good, the DW linked turner I had a quick spin on seemed good, my meta 5 seemed alright and my Maestro bike seems good too (not as active as the boardman horst link system, but better peddling)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I just find it mystifying that your experience of the bike seems to be so markedly different from both magazine reviews and pretty every owner I've ever met and talked to. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if the bike's as awful as you say, I'm amazed that no-one else appears to have called it that way.
Take the Singletrack review you link to in your classifieds ad, it quotes Benji as saying:
'I was blown away by just how good it was. In many ways it’s actually quite a hard bike to review because it was pretty much flawless.'
He's a pretty good rider and an experienced tester, so I'd have expected him to notice a massively flawed suspension design. Anyway, each to their own I guess. Sorry if I seemed stroppy or overly defensive. Like I said in my original post, I don't think it's a sofa plus ride and works best if you hammer it, but I've never encountered the suspension issues you mention and I've ridden the bike a lot.
Anyway, a quick test ride lets folk make up their own minds.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Take the Singletrack review you link to in your classifieds ad, it quotes Benji as saying:
'I was blown away by just how good it was. In many ways it’s actually quite a hard bike to review because it was pretty much flawless.'
He's a pretty good rider and an experienced tester, so I'd have expected him to notice a massively flawed suspension design. Anyway, each to their own I guess. Sorry if I seemed stroppy or overly defensive. Like I said in my original post, I don't think it's a sofa plus ride and works best if you hammer it, but I've never encountered the suspension issues you mention and I've ridden the bike a lot.
Anyway, a quick test ride lets folk make up their own minds.
It's no problem, I like discussing this kind of stuff - everybody is bound to get a bit defensive about bikes they own/love.
I totally agree on hammering it being the best way to ride it, and as I alluded to previously, i think highly skilled riders will be able to get a lot out of it due to the good pedal response. It can be a fast bike, that is for sure.
The reviews are a puzzle to me also. I can only assume that reviewers are (much) more technically proficient than me and thus are more interested in the pedalling than the comfort/traction.
Edit: or Pace sent cakes in the box with the review bike
Posted 1 year ago # -
Just a question for you, have you ever hit a dirt jump or a drop on it? If so did the rockers hit the seat-tube per chance?
When I first heard of this months ago I emptied the air from the shock and bounced up and down on the pedals. I can honestly say there was never any meeting of rocker/tube so I suspect there's something else afoot there as I can't see how it's a design issue otherwise my bike would do it.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I used to love Pace bikes had an RC200 and thought it was the dogs bollocks
but when my 305 cracked around the seattube and I experienced there wonderful backup wont buy owt pace ever again .
And dont forget their stuff has a 2 year warranty not 5 or lifetime
2 measly years my frame bust at 2 years and a bitPosted 1 year ago # -
A mate recently test rode the 405 and 506 at the new Pace office in Dalby. He really rated both frames but is probably going to buy a 405 frame (he loved the 506 but felt it was a bit more travel than he needs).
Another friend has a 405 which he's owned for a few years with no issues.
I've bought DT Swiss spares off Pace before and found the service excellent. I stayed at Pace's holiday property in Thornton Le Dale recently (its a really good base for riding Dalby and NY Moors) and found Adrian and his wife extremely helpful. The axe grinding about Pace customer service on here is the polar opposite of my experience.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Mintman - Member
When I first heard of this months ago I emptied the air from the shock and bounced up and down on the pedals. I can honestly say there was never any meeting of rocker/tube so I suspect there's something else afoot there as I can't see how it's a design issue otherwise my bike would do it.Honestly, at this point it would not surprise me to learn that the frame was welded up with the pivots in the wrong place, or with the wrong rockers or something like that.
Maybe the problem only occurs on certain sizes (mine was a M)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ive got a M size 405 and have had it for a couple of years now. Climbs brilliantly, absolute rubbish that it has poor traction uphill. I love it to bits. That is all.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Penguin all I can say is test one and make your own mind up, no offence intended
I too have a medium 405 and she flies both up and down hill, I could go on forever about her but that would just bore everyone. It’s a love it or hate it bike so grab a test and prepare to be blown away....Posted 1 year ago # -
I had a 405 for about 18 months. Eventually sold it, because no matter what I tried, I could never get 100% comfortable on it (partly becuase of an old shoulder injury). I'm a bit of a bike whore, so do have other 'popular bikes' to compare it to. Also live and ride in the Northern Peak District, so the bikes get a decent testing;)
I'd agree with some of the previous observations. Personally, I found that it was a bike that only really shone when ridden fast and hard, and with a bit of skill. My bike was fitted with the DT ex200 shock which, apart from a damping problem (sorted with no fuss under warranty), performed well. IMO, the bikes strongest point was its climbing performance - I demo'd a lot of bikes when I was looking to replace the 405, and for its weight, there's not much that can touch it on climbs - closest I found was Giant Anthem X (but only 100mm travel) or the Zesty, which really is very good.
Again, only my opinion, but I think the low front end that really helped on climbs, was at the expense of descending confidence.
The 405's descending performance was where I was a bit disappointed. It's not particularly bad, it's more that you don't neccessarily have the margin for error that you do on some other similar travel bikes (Trek EX or Yeti ASR5 for instance), I think because the front-centre is comparatively short for the wheelbase. It's not a bike that you can just brakes off and plough straight through terrain if that makes sense (like an Orange Five or Zesty
), the 405 really needs piloting. I fitted a 150mm fork to my 405 (on the advice of Adrian at Pace) and with about 30%-35% sag on the fork, it felt much better down gnarly terrain - the only problem is that I felt quite perched on the bike, rather than sat in it. After trying numerous bar/stem/seatpost combinations, I finally sold the bike to a guy who's a seriously fast 'pinner'. He's had the bike for a couple of years and FWIR, he's now running a 150mm coil fork on it (good choice ) As far as reliability goes, it sounds like the new owner has put it though some serious abuse (Snowdon more than once, Lakes, lots of Peak mileage, Scotland). I think he's had to dismantle and clean the pivot bearings a few times - but IME, I've had to do this on all my FS bikes (er...apart from my Orange Five of course!) - so, given the amount of use it's had, it's done very well. Paintwork was looking fairly...er..distressed the last time I saw it, but the welds, bolts etc. are all good.In summary, I'd say if you're a reasonably skilled rider looking for a very involving ride that comes alive when ridden hard, give one a try.
Penguin all I can say is test one and make your own mind up
I'd certainly agree with this - seems a bit of a marmite bike, so well worth trying before you buy.p.s. I had some experience of Pace's customer service and, IME, it was pretty good.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Has anyone got any experience of the 325.5 frame? I've just bought and hated an old chameleon and on paper the Pace looks good.
Posted 1 year ago # -
BadlyWiredDog
Love the way you blew retro83 out of the water there.
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I can't speak for the Pace Full Sus bikes as I've never ridden one but I've had a 303 since early 2007 and I love it.
I could bitch about the build quality because the bottom bracket was way rough and the rear dropouts are significantly bigger than 135mm.
I could bitch about the lack of tyre clearance.
I could bitch about the limited warranty because it is an expensive frame and it'd be nice to have more than two years.
I could bitch about the "starry starry night" black paintwork after a few rocky rides which led me to keep a pot of Hammerite paint in the shed.But I don't because it is a joy to ride.
Posted 1 year ago # -
billyboy - Member
Love the way you blew retro83 out of the water there.Maybe try reading the rest of the replies
I stand by everything I've said. Great post though.
I enjoyed the way you report significant quality problems with your frame but those are okay because "it's a joy to ride" as if it's fine to sell a UK designed frame for £500 with poor mud clearance and poor quality paint, not forgetting QC issues such as 'drop outs spacing that is too wide', the many reports of cracked 303 frames and the lack of decent warranty.Posted 1 year ago # -
I have a Pace RC 405 and I love it. It basically feels like a Orange P7 with rear suspension. Even with lots of sag, the bike always feels snappy when accelerating out of saddle. I used to have a Stumpy FSR (no brain) and I hated the mushy feel it had. It's also noticeably stiffer than the Stumpy.
I feel I can climb up anything with DT 130mm forks and non-setback post. A shorter fork with a dropper seatpost is a killer combination and makes your bike rip downhill and uphill.
I haven't had problems with suspension bottomin out. I have the DT shock...
Pace customer service has been good, I ordered new shock hardware from them and they were very helpful. No complaints here...
Here's a pic of mine: http://bit.ly/oD6yIC
Posted 8 months ago # -
Has to the 325.5 i had one loved it and broke it after breaking a 325 in the same place.Customer service is ok after many hoops of fire to jump through unlike the satisfaction you recieve of the larger brands.I personaly lost confidence in the brand shame has they are very much pioneers in mtb in britain.Out on the trails chatting to other pace owners you do hear the odd horror story of customer service,on supply and selling you products 2nd to none on warrenty issues a world away from other brands.The ride was amazing gave me confidance and speed where only full sussers should go.Buy one and tred carefully one guy on a steel pace i think its the 104 told me he loved it albeit he had to reem the seat post tube himself with a tool sent to him by pace but was charged for the postage.Come on british companies surely you can do better than that , ive moved to Cotic and Genesis wouldnt touch Pace again ,im fond of their new 29er but no icant buy one.
Posted 8 months ago #
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