Amongst many other things, overcoming fear is a big part of improving as a rider. Generally I am reasonably good at it, year on year riding gnarlier, steeper and more technical trails. But despite having the technique, I can’t manual. As soon as I get the wheel up to the balance point, fear has me hitting the rear brake. A few years ago a badly executed drop off, landed me very painfully on my back. It took months for me to fully recover. Perhaps the roots of it are in this? (Though strangely drop-offs don’t worry me).

Anyone experienced similar and found a solution?

Get onto a nice grassy field

Wear a camelbak but take everything out, put something soft in there, pillow?

Loop out on purpose, grip the bars and don’t cover your rear brake.

Obviously try to land on your feet, but get used to where the point of no return is, eventually you’ll be used to when you get there, and your fear will be gone.

Do not give into the darkside Luke, trust the force and you shall prevail.

Practice looping out.

I went over the back a few months ago and landed on my arse 😕
Was quite sore for a few weeks.

Had some coaching recently and the coach said to try again with flat pedals then I can just step off as mentioned above.

If it’s any consolation you’re doing better than me, at least you can hit the brake 😳 I go through a repeated cycle. I’ll spend ages not being able to lift the wheel more than a couple of inches, then suddenly I’ll pull a big one and flip right off the back, landing on my arse (so the camelback is no help). Then it’s back to not committing fully and barely lifting the front. The weird thing is that when I do loop out everything seems to happen in slow motion, but I still don’t think to pull the damn brake, even though my finger is right on it.

Had some coaching recently and the coach said to try again with flat pedals then I can just step off as mentioned above.

Good luck with that 🙂 I’ve got a comedy video of one of my loop out sessions in the back garden. My wife looks at it and says “why didn’t you just step off?”. Why indeed?

It looked easy when the coach did it! 8)

🙂 🙂

My tips….

1) practice on grass
2) practice feathering the back brake (don’t grab)
3) flat pedals help your confidence
4) keep at practicing!

I’ve spent many happy hours practicing and I still can’t maintain the balance point for more than a few yards.

I’ve had the same problem as you kept dabbing the brake (grabbing a fistful!) as I was covering it. Tried to not cover it but that didn’t work. Found the closer your butt is to the top of the wheel the easier it is and the less need to dab…
…all of a sudden I wasn’t grabbing brake too much anymore and was manualling like I used to be able to as a kid.

Try not to use your brake at all (that was the overriding message I took from that last video that was on here).

Leadfold is tdog, tdog is leadfold.

Yeah same story and bookmarked.

This one –

Mike Boyd

[video]https://youtu.be/pkJFylX6xcc[/video]

I’ve seen a vid somewhere where someone had made a wooden stand too, but I can’t find that one. Worth a dig on youtube if you don’t have a turbo?

Back it up to the wall and you can stop yourself looping out with your arse.

I’ve tried that too. Totally useless for me I’m afraid. I can manual all day long with the rear wheel clamped in my turbo trainer. Feels totally different when trying it for real though. I think with the rear clamped you can just throw your weight backwards, but out on the trail you need to push with your legs.

My top tip is……

Don’t bother, it’s a dark art that you have to sell your first born to join the club.

I have tried and tried and come to the conclusion above. That, or I am just sh!te at manuals 😆

RTFM?? Oh, not that sort of manual!

TOP tip: down THEN back! (not down&back)

😯

Why is every skills thread on here full of advice from people who can’t actaully perform said skill? 😕

TOP tip: down THEN back! (not down&back)

For instance. The above is not a top tip at all. it’s a beginner strategy taught by skills coaches and regurgetated by beginners.
I don’t ever do the “L” shape skills coaches teach. Never have.

The solution is actually really simple. Type less. ride more.

But here are a few pointers:

If you can comfortably manage to get the front wheel up to the balance point you’re already halfway there.
Teach yourself how to step off the back safely.
Don’t practice on grass. it’s too draggy. (by all means practice wheelies on grass – that extra resistance actually helps beginners with wheelying).
The fear of looping out will go eventually.
Assuming you’re doing everything else properly (straight arms/low CoG etc.):
When you are about to go past the balance point bend your legs bringing your pelvis towards the saddle. When the front end is getting too low extend your legs pushing your pelvis away from the saddle. It’s really that simple.
Make sure your saddle is as slammed as you can get it. the higher it is the less room you have to hold the balance point.

Gwurk is right, this is the important bit.

When you are about to go past the balance point bend your legs bringing your pelvis towards the saddle. When the front end is getting too low extend your legs pushing your pelvis away from the saddle. It’s really that simple.

It’s not arms up and down or arse back and forth, it’s legs in and out.

I’m currently following the Ryan Leech manual master class. There are two drills he uses to overcome the fear that you describe in the early stages of learning. Practiced often enough, I have found them to be a good way to reduce fear levels:

– Firstly by doing manual front wheel lifts and then pulling the back brake to bring the front wheel back down. This tries to establish a crucial “brain to finger pathway” to prevent looping out. Repeat this over and over so that it becomes a natural response if you get too far back.

– The next, intentionally step, or jump, off the back of the bike and land on your feet. This drill is best practiced on a grassy area with a gentle upslope. This allows you to experience what it is like to go past the balance point and know that it is not to be feared.

Ideally you should never go off the back once you trust your braking abilities.

As others have said about the manual, it’s the arse position that primarily controls height of the front wheel. I have found that this is too difficult to do at this stage of learning and I first have to concur my fears. Once the back brake response is established I can then work on using my weight to control front wheel height and prevent falling off the back.

Mike Boyd (as Nobeerinthefridge mentions) made a video on how he learns things quick, tip three of five was to break learning in to small pieces. The Ryan Leech course does this very well. All the best!

I envy your ability to even get as far as looping out! Pretty much never managed to get the wheel more than 6 inches of the ground 🙁
No idea what I do wrong as I have probably watched every video under the sun. More likely to go sideways than up grrr.

First things first – I cannot manual or wheelie. However, I’m trying to learn both and although progress at my age (nearly 50) is painfully slow, occasionally, things come together and I think its worth persevering with.

What I’ve learnt so far:

Wheelies
Don’t start by trying to hold a wheelie for any length of time – aim to loop out on purpose – it’s the only way you’ll get used to the feeling of being at the balance point. Also, make sure your arms are really locked straight.

Manuals
I used to think it was a dark art, especially when those who can do it make it look so easy. Even getting near the balance point seemed impossible. However I’ve had a couple of moments when the stars have aligned and realised this is what a manual should feel like. I think this was when I managed to get the following in just the right order:

Feet level – weight forward – heels down – good strong pump – keep the body low and quickly push forward with the feet/straighten legs and get over the back of the bike.

The problem is the pump and the push forward/leg straighten both need to be quite strong and it feels easy to overdo them and loop out.

Maybe I’ll have them both nailed by the time I’m 60 – or maybe I’ll just give up.

Watch “The Human Body” episode 3 on BBC iPlayer. See how Danny Mac rides and study how he manuals carefully. See how he pops the bike onto the front wheel and reverse wheelies down the road!
Then stick the bike on eBay and take up embroidery. Worked for me!

Watch how a good BMXer does it. Look how loose and low their body language is.

Then realise you’re trying this on a bike much bigger. Your body needs to be loose and low!

Time to drop that saddle…

gwurk
For instance. The above is not a top tip at all. it’s a beginner strategy taught by skills coaches and regurgetated by beginners.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your not actually a moron (against some pretty damming evidence 😉

1) It’s “taught” by skills coaches (you know, those people who make their living out of teaching people to ride a bike) because it works.

2) It’s a beginner strategy? Yes, yes it is. Which is exactly what you need when you are learning to manual (or any other skill)

3) There is no way to put in writing, especially in a single forum post, every last finite detail of how to do something as complex and “motor skills based” as a manual. Hence, the word “tip” in Top Tip. ie it’s a pointer. a condensed single important point that if you follow it will,in most cases, make what you are trying to learn, easier to learn.

4) No one has said you don’t need to practice. of course you do. A LOT! The more the better. Reading (or writing) something on a forum post is not a substitute for going out and doing it. That’s is not just obvious, but actually implicit in what a Forum is!! (the clue is the name)

So, in summary, “Down and then Back” is a manual cliche, precisely because it actually is what you need to do. Same with “make an L shape” (which of course is the same thing, but in a more confusing, less definitive, wrapper)

So, now, off with you, back under your bridge 😆

Anyone care to post a vid of them manualing?

Maxtorque can’t manual.

I can. video it if you like. but I want payed.

Me

[video]https://youtu.be/YHZfVYYGFnQ[/video]

gwurk = gw?

double post

The OP started a thread on a Forum (the point of which, Forums that is, are to discuss stuff in a social environment) about how they were struggling to manual. I hardly think that giving Tips or Advice, good or bad tbh, falls outside the general point of such a Forum?

And it’s not about me btw (i’m of course, totz-amazeballs at everything 😉

You can’t see it in the vid so easily, but I’m in a gently sloping carpark, that and a constantly covered but not pulled until reeeeeallllly necessary rear brake is all you need.

And just keep practicing.