(I like the pretty Oranges on the forks )
I thought they were tomatoes?
Bland. Rubbish spec, incredibly overpriced. Who buys these bikes, when canyon, focus, ribble and offer better bikes for less money?
Hang on, I think you mean you can get a 105 groupset and a cheep frame from any of the above. Now't to say that the orange isn't as good as a £1900 frame only with a free groupset thrown in?
Comparing oranges to giants is not a straight comparison. Beyond price there are many other factors... With scale being a big one. Giant will sell several kazillion road bikes, orange might do 100.
So you are paying for a unique brand, exclusivity of an uncommon bike... But that's great if it's an orange exclusive frame... And I don't think it is.
I could not find a road bike I liked earlier this year. Simple brief: steel, 105, nice. I got there, just with an old stock kona honky tonk frame. Cost more than a carbon giant bike... But I really don't want carbon or a generic looking bike. Point being people will buy these because they are not planet x or giants. If they were steel they would make my shortlist.
[i]Now't to say that the orange isn't as good as a £1900 frame only with a free groupset thrown in?[/i]
Apart from Orange themselves, who admit it's a job lot bought in from a big manufacturer.
You reckon Orange have massively higher profit margins than other bike companies?
I have no idea. I do know that you can buy a five frame and build a bike to the "PRO" spec for cheaper than Orange will sell you the whole bike.
A little birdy told me what the carbon frames cost at source.
The difference is someone has the bottle and nerve to buy a minimum order (giving them a good price) then marketing them with a build kit. Fair play to them.
Scott etc etc all do it- and the price is less than £100 per frame 😯
so, the average hatchback costs ~ 7k to build.
everyone has to make a living.
how much do you think your employers put on your hourly rate?
I like way Oranges ride, but would never buy a new one (far too expensive IMHO). There will always be a second hand market for people like me.
Scott etc etc all do it- and the price is less than £100 per frame
Is it bollocks.
Is it bollocks.
Alot lower?
Alot lower?
What do you reckon? Seriously.
A lot lower.
You should get into the bike trade hora - it seems it's a license to print money.
Like any business you can get it wrong, or it becomes a labour of love or of course you get it right most of the time and rake it in.
Most bikeshops fall into the above IMO.
But the thread was about Orange making 'another awful looking bike', which, according to a consensus amongst inteligent people on here, they jolly well have not. In fact quite the opposite. 🙂
So all the other stuff about it's 'value' is irrelevant.
CASE DISMISSED!
I love Orange threads. Before you even start reading you know it will be full of people who are foaming at the moth with hatred because a British company is actually doing well for themselves.
Wish you were doing the same?
Instead you sit there slagging them off because you are stuck in a dead end 9-5.
Pure jealousy, nothing more, nothing less.
Whereas you have a British company called Hope that prices its products at a great price.
Whereas you have a British company called Hope that prices its products at a great price.
their rear hubs cost £120!
Thats strange, I always see people whinging about the price of them too.
They are certainly more expensive than the competition.
I thought people would have figured it out by now after the countless threads on the [i]same[/i] subject.
English labour, small company, relatively small turnover
= more expensive than
Asian labour, massive company, huge turnover.
On the scale of things, Hope and Orange are extremely competitive on price. If they weren't, in the current economic climate they wouldn't be trading, simple as that.
Wunundred! 😀
their rear hubs cost £120!
Chris King are about £350
DT Swiss 240s are about £250
American Classic are about £200
Shimano XTR are about £150
A Superstar one is about £120
So, Hope start to look like rather good value to me, for a British made product what is fully serviceable and can get replacement parts easily.
I've got a set of wheels with XC hubs, 8 years old, still on original bearings, showing very little signs of wear. Couple of the best bike components I've ever bought.
In that time, I've got through about 4 Shimano hubs, as the freehubs have all failed. That includes one XTR rear hub. Cost of replacement Shimano XTR freehub (not that it's available for that hub any more though)?
[i]Ninety pounds[/i].
The Carb-O is exactly as british as my Carrera! The "buy british" argument falls down a bit with a bike like this don't you think?
Just to be clear...
I think Hope hubs are ace, and I'm trying to call Alan about a project at the moment.
Oh right I was not clear whether you were exclaiming about what great value they are, or how spensive! 🙂
I'm a big fayn of Hope stuff, because all the products I've had have been great in performance, quality and price, and their customer service is fantastic. And that older stuffs can still get parts for.
I'm happy to pay a premium for Hope stuff, cos it's British an ting, but tbh, I don't think we do really, considering how good their stuff actually is. I'd say Hope stuff is excellent vfm, and loads better than a lot of other braynds.
The Carb-O is exactly as british as my Carrera! The "buy british" argument falls down a bit with a bike like this don't you think?
I didn't say it was that was aimed at me, I was on about the company as a whole.
They still have to pay for the manufacturing of the 224, Patriot, Five, Five Diva, Alpine (and ST4?) which are made at the factory. Plus the rent, rates, wages, marketing, testing, etc etc.
They are a small company, they are doing well, whats wrong?
No one is forcing you to buy one!
I'm a big fayn of Hope stuff, because all the products I've had have been great in performance, quality and price, and their customer service is fantastic. And that older stuffs can still get parts for.
Hope are great - I very easily got to speak to a proper tech guy who gave me very useful advice on some old brakes I bought off here that needed fixing up. Not sure how many other bike part companies you'd get that from.
It's sold out.
http://road.cc/content/news/43525-orange-carbo-road-bike-sold-out
Infact you could say it was price too low, at that burn rate.
[IMG] 
[/IMG]
That cost £4k and its got 105 on it....I'd rather have it any day over a Ribble. Decent frame, cranks, wheels and finishing kit means the money goes on things that won't wear out. Can't say I'd notice the difference as much between 105 and Dura Ace compared to a set of Planet-X Model B wheels and the Tune setup on my bike. And my stem isn't slammed because when it is, it gives me wrist pain
The Orange isn't my bag but clearly there's a market for it. I like my 5, yes its overpriced but then so are Santa Cruz and Intense.
Hope are great - I very easily got to speak to a proper tech guy who gave me very useful advice on some old brakes I bought off here that needed fixing up.
they are clearly using caller-id and blocking me as I can't get through.
their rear hubs cost £120!
Blimey they've gone up- I've just googled hope hoops rear and its now £188 😮
I'd rather have it any day over a Ribble
Is it significantly 'better' than a Ribble, though?
Blimey they've gone up- I've just googled hope hoops rear and its now £188
That's an entire wheel though Hora...
their rear hubs cost £120!
Blimey they've gone up- I've just googled hope hoops rear and its now £188 😮
It's sold out.http://road.cc/content/news/43525-orange-carbo-road-bike-sold-out
Infact you could say it was price too low, at that burn rate.
They'd be daft not to come up with a new colourway (or the same again) very soon...
brant on my climb up to Mam Tor yesterday I was passed by no less than 6 Planet-x bikes (none were together). 😆
Any idea on which catalogue frame they're using?
Be interesting to know which other brands use the same (or very nearly identical..) frame.
Is it significantly 'better' than a Ribble, though?
I've had a Ribble and a Planet X and to me, yes it is. Far more comfortable but stiffer for racing and it just fits me better. On both the Ribble and PX I fell between a large and extra large so both were a bit of a compromise. If it had been the same with the Storck then no, I wouldn't have bothered.
I'm not saying that the two shop brands aren't decent bikes because they are, I've still got a Ribble winter bike and race an On-one MTB. But for something to spend hours on at a time the Storck is ace.
The Orange is an interesting one. I've got a bit of a thing about buying Road bikes from an MTB company - I'd rather have something thats been developed by people who know about road geometry than a box ticked in a catalogue and stickered up as necessary. That said I think Colnago are massively overpriced for what they are too, so what do i know...
[img] [/img]
OMG look at the headset spacers! Cheap Halfords tat! LOL.....
flange - MemberI like my 5, yes its overpriced but then so are Santa Cruz and Intense
Santa Cruz sell the Heckler for £999 (or £899). The Five is £4-500 more.
dirk_pumpa - Member
Druidh "Reminds me a bit of those "BMW" bicycles - bought by the gullible brand fanboys"
Ive ridden four different brooklyn frames now and i love them all.. A mechanic who used to fix my bike came second overall in the national 4x series on a supertherm big ben.
when i can.. I'll buy one.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/bike-porn-pics-please
Simple solution to this one - if you don't like it don't buy it. Obviously lots of people do like it and have bought them all. Therefore you are wrong. Simples! 😆
Rusty - i think Druidh was meaning actual BMW like the car people. Not Brooklyn Machine Works.
Santa Cruz sell the Heckler for £999 (or £899). The Five is £4-500 more.
Why does some bell end always write that?
The only similar thing is they are both single pivot.
The Five has a tapered head tube, this century geometry, ISCG mounts, dropper post cable guides, and normal sizing.
They don't ride anything like each other.
If Santa Cruz updated it, I very much doubt it would be the same price.
Oh wait they did, the Butcher, and its £1400 with a Float RL, making it more expensive than a Five (£1395 with RP23)
I like the paintjob, but sorry -the name's terrible! Doesn't seem like much bike for the money.
their rear hubs cost £120!
i know it's brilliant isn't it. they make such a great product and sell it at a great price.
I think Hope hubs are ace, and I'm trying to call Alan about a project at the moment.
Can you get them to add some decent form of sealing to their next hubs please?
dunno I think id rather have the orange with 105 for the price than a £4000 bike with 105 !!
Hang on - since when do people price a bike purely on the kit hanging off it? Can't frames be better or worse then others?
Flow, except the butcher/nickel has a linkage that SC effectively value at 400 quid (heckler +1 linkage = butcher +1 linkage = Nomad).
Why does changing a bit of spec like seat tube diameter increase the price, there is enough profit margin to cover tooling costs. SC dropped the price of the heckler in order to fit the single link bikes in the range and used lack of development as an excuse to lower the price and to market it as an introductory model. Price has little to do with production cost.
Orange sell all the bikes they can build so regardless of manufacturing cost they are pricing stuff well, or even under given how quick the carbo sold out.
I'm not a fanboi or hater for either, I used to have a Nomad and now have an Alpine.
Why does changing a bit of spec like seat tube diameter increase the price
Errrr, because it makes it current.
"their rear hubs cost £120!"
RRP is around £145
"A Superstar one is about £120"
More like £60 for the the like-for-like (ish*) hub. Its the 120point one thats £120, though from what I've read it can start to become a very free hub ..
*Alirght, not UK made, nor priced for the middleman/LBS route to market
"[i]I think Hope hubs are ace, and I'm trying to call Alan about a project at the moment[/i]"
"Can you get them to add some decent form of sealing to their next hubs please?"
Could you ask him if they could double the pickup speed to that of the SS/trials hub? I think I could probably live with the noise then to the point I think I would bring myself to buy one. 48point pickup with an easily serviced freehub would be awesome
"Santa Cruz sell the Heckler for £999 (or £899). The Five is £4-500 more"
"a Five (£1395 with RP23)"
I was going to say comparing the £899 Float R heckler with the £1400 RP23 Five isn't exactly fair, but it seems you no longer get an RP23 for £1400, its now £1500 for an RP23. £1400 gets you an 'evolution'? RL
The 2012 Heckler would seem to have an RL for £1100 now
Having said that Santa Cruz I'm guessing are a much bigger company and I'm guessing manufacture in Asia?