I know plenty of threads have been posted on trail sanitisation, but hadn’t seen mention of this one before. I was riding around Great Longstone the other day and the bridleway that comes down from the quarry onto the road into Rowland has been filled with black gravel. This used to be a lovely loose and rocky descent, with a few small drop-offs and sketchy bits and required a bit of thought to ride well. Now – other than a few water bars – it’s just a gravel track.

The steepish climb up Black Harry Lane and over to Stoney Middleton has also been filled with gravel at some stage since I last rode it, but that is already reverting to its old self.

I’ve heard it said this “sanitisation” is to discourage the MXers and 4 x 4s, but it’s such a temporary measure that it seems largely pointless.

Can any shed on light for the real reasons behind doing this?

End of financial year panic spending with the justification of making it easier for the less able to access the trail?

I’m guessing the folks in charge don’t sit there wondering how they can make bridleways more rad for mountainbikers, but more accessible and safe for majority users?
Shame, but there you go…

Councils have to make Access available to as many folk as possible, so when they find tracks like this they’ll repair them

I’d guess something like above (end of year) plus access targets, plus the rather unpleasant fact that for the different user types (horse, bike, rambler) the ‘ideal surface’ differs a LOT (even within types) and I’d suggest that ‘shouting ability'(to those in ‘power’) went ramblers – then a huge gap to horseriders then another huge gap to bike

IME ( Buckinghamshire, so loads if horses) they are the group that get listened to most, then walkers. I doubt mountain bikers ( as a sub group of cyclists) get much if a look in, besides which we’re officially “taking as we find” anyway

I guess though pesky horses and other bridleway users are also moaning about the lack of drop offs and gnarly surfaces.

It’s a bridleway – not a trail centre ….

It’s a bridleway – not a trail centre ….

Reluctant as I am to go down memory lane, bear in mind a lot of us were riding these trails long before anyone even thought about building dedicated trail centres, so I don’t really think the comparison is relevant.

As I suggested above, the exercise is of limited value since it’s such a temporary measure. There are plenty of trails that have had this “one-minute makeover” that, come a bit of bad weather, start reverting to their original state. It’s a lazy bit of trail maintenance dressed up as “access for all”

Aye – that whole area has ceased to become worth riding now. See also the BOAT from Stoney to Eyam. Baslow Edge was done a while back as was the BW from the Riley Graves down to Stoney – although that’s starting to cut up again from rainwater.

I don’t think the horse riders are particuarly enamoured of the surfacing either – too hard for comfort, but too loose for the horse to get secure footing.

I suspect Derbyshire council get a bunch of quotes in from contractors, then go with the cheapest, with no thought for the long term picture or suitability of use. The easiest way to resurface a trail is to bulldoze it to truck width, dump hardcore by the truckload then roll it flat. Job jobbed…

As soon as you get across the border into S.Yorks, they seem to take an awful lot more care about the work. I think that’s largely to to do with better contacts between the council and various user groups, including Ride Sheffield.

Can any shed on light for the real reasons behind doing this?

Yes, its not all about you or mountain bikers in general for that matter.

If its all about disabled access I can’t imagine pushing a wheel chair on that bloody gravel is easy.
I phoned up the magazine asking them to look into all this and do a feature. This is the biggest threat to our sport.
They didn’t seem interested and to be fair neither did MBR.
Obviously head angles are more important.

Yes, its not all about you or mountain bikers in general for that matter.

This doesn’t answer my question. I’m not selfish enough to think the trails are for me me me, but was asking if anyone knew the rationale behind doing this. Having spoken to other trail users such as walkers they share my concerns that it’s a pointless and temporary measure that seems more about ticking boxes than making any practical and positive difference. I can ask the Peak Park but thought I’d get a quicker – although not necessarily correct – answer on here.

I don’t buy this “access for all” argument either. As a parent to a disabled child I don’t want nor expect all the trails to be smoothed over to make it easier for him, but instead accept that we can’t take him everywhere. Where does it stop? In 20 years will we see a ladder bolted onto the Great Slab at the Roaches? An escalator going up Jacob’s Ladder?

It won’t last long, don’t worry. Get out there in the rain and do some skids 😉

My road is more gnaar than some of the trails around here.

I was amused to see that there are already rain gullies forming on Stanage Long Causeway – with a bit of help from a few of the less competent MXers, that should be back to something interesting pretty quickly…

already rain gullies forming

Exactly. This is what Black Harry Lane is like near Stoney Middleton. Most of the gravel is now collecting at the bottom of the hill with the top reverting to its previous state AND with big rain gullies. It’s a silly temporary measure

It won’t last long, don’t worry. Get out there in the rain and do some skids

Therein lies the problem – when these narrow tracks like the chute get sanitised you tend to end up with a layer of loose gravel on the top. As they are natural watercourses anyway it quickly gets washed away in the centre leaving a unrideable rut. The situation is often made worse because the tracks are overgrown. Derbyshire CC could do with putting in more effort on the vegetation, and less on the surface.

DCC and the PDNPA seem very keen on cycling at the moment – which is great – but it seems entirely focused on “family/leisure cycling”. And whilst I’m all for the attempts to link up the Monsal, High Peak and Tissington trails, I wish they would remember that there’s more to cycling than just that.

Look at the Fairholmes/LadyBower area for example – loads of potential for new and exciting trails, well away from the busy honeypots and the main walking and climbing areas. But all DCC want people to do is pootle around the lake and queue up at the little kiosk for a cup of tea.

Ladybower belongs to severn Trent water does it not? DCC have no say on the building of new trails in the woods or on the shoreline there iirc

that it’s a pointless and temporary measure that seems more about ticking boxes than making any practical and positive difference.

This

It probably meets ( just about) some risk assessed waffle buried in a folder no one has ever looked at. It will get again in a few years

Ladybower belongs to severn Trent water does it not?

and much of the adjacent land to the National Trust as well

majority of the open country in the Peak District belongs to a handful of large owners – used to be a map on the Peak District Park site

anyway seems to me that councils are hell bent on fulfilling their obligations to make the countryside accessible by “improving” bridleways – making a route that family and junior will drive to and ride if they otherwise wouldn’t is a plus on that system as is meeting legal obligations to maintain bridleways – still convinced the best way forward for “mountain biking” is to treat these routes as access routes and put pressure on these large landowners to give open access for “adventure riding”™

put pressure on these large landowners to give open access for “adventure riding”™

I think that’s a bonus but most countryside – at least where I live – would be hike-a-bike if you venture far off the footpaths/bridleways/BOATs/RUPPs etc. I do enjoy “adventure riding” from time to time, but I prefer most of my riding on some sort of trail rather than schlapping through mud/bog/heather

Over the last 5 odd years loads of amazing trails have been ruined either filling them crushed buildings because it,s cheap or turned into straight lines by people who seem to hate corners. There is a simple solution, pick up a shovel use some imagination and build your self a trail for everyone. See it like putting something back into the sport. I,m not saying rip up trees, dig up the flowers and piss the badgers off but with a little thought and respect to landscape you could build something that last to end of time.
Some of the best trails in and around the Peak have been built by unknown hero’s some of which everyone uses including walkers/ramblers and long may it continue.

OP – well that gets added to Chapel Gate and Brough Lane, both have had the same treatment.

Walked up Stanage on Sunday and there is a little bit of break up in the gravel surface but not much.

DCC & PDNPA could do well to look at linking more of the random stretches of bridleway with upgraded and little used footpaths (there are plenty) to draw riders away from the honeypots.

I’ve got a friend who lives in the Peak District who’s a keen horse rider (the weirdo!), and I know she’s part of a group that regularly reports ‘damaged’ bridleways to the local authorities, and they also volunteer and help repair/maintain fix them. Could be their work, or a similar group?

EDIT: I think it is their work, just looked at their website and at the ‘bridleway repairs’ PDF – it mentions quite a few trails in that area, including the ‘Black Harry Lane Project’.

We wouldn’t want Dobbin getting dirty feet would we?

Peak Horsepower – go check out the website Mrs Toast has linked to, and download the pdfs, it makes very interesting reading.

Ongoing trail sanitisation or maintainance of the public highway network?

I saw this thread and just knew it would be the Peaks. Seems that the county council still have some excess budget despite moaning about not having a pot to piss in etc.

Time for the locals to hold some ‘longest skid’ competitions?

Ongoing trail sanitisation or maintainance of the public highway network?

Call it what you like, but it’s being done very badly with no thought of longevity. There are a lot of user groups with different vested interests and compromise may be hard to come by, but throwing gravel on a trail isn’t a solution to any problem.

Creeping suburban attitudes – make everything safe and easy 😉

The more boring they make BWs the more we ride FPs. British weather will return it to a fun-to-ride state in time.

Bristol Trails Group suggested that it makes sense to report BWs that you think aren’t in a good state to the Highways. So if you find one axle deep in mud, report it.

That has the effect of taking some of the pressure off tracks that are being reported for being “covered in rocky steps” or whatever.

🙂

Perhaps we should report BWs that “appear to have had cheap tarmac fly tipped on them.”?

Paul, that’s a fair point. The stuff they put on the steep bit of chapel gate was old Tarmac. We rode up on a hot day and you could smell it as you can when they are laying new roads. Of course, along then came the torrential rain to wash it all into the river noe.

At the very least, trail resurfacing should use local materials.

It’s a bit depressing that somewhere like CyB is being sanitised, this in addition to more and more family trails, sure that in itself means they can leave the gnarlier bits of the proper trails alone, it’s all going a bit llandeglaey. My idea of mountain biking isn’t loads of jumps, followed by more jumps etc. lets hear it for proper rocky and tetchy bits that make you think about how you ride them, not how fast you can hit another tedious jump type thing…

Ridden stainburn loddrik?

Chris – same on Brough Lane – reeks of tar with nice curbs to bunnyhop just as you start to gain a bit of speed and then the odd gate just for a laugh.

And on that subject, why limestone chippings/dust on the track up Stanage to the pole, it’s a gritstone area.

Derbyshire CC RoW dept have a long history of trying to keep people out of the countryside but now they have more Govt blather about access I suspect sanitisation is the easiest way to go.
Still we have nature on our side. The BW through the woods from Holmesfield down towards Totley is now harder than before they gravelled it. There is a lovely deep water groove and some nice lumps and bumps. Mind you it is a couple of weeks since I was there so its probably been done again!
Incidentally I was talking to some ramblers on Houndkirk just after it was done and they were moaning bitterly about ‘vandalism’ so who is it for? Presumably horses.