both private and public sector I feel confident to say that it can be as honest or as bent as the people involved want to make it.
Correct. Given the current drive towards transparency and the FC knowing this would get a lot of publicity, do you think those involved wanted to get this one right? Or do you think they gaffed it off and rode the ragged edge?
Given the current drive towards transparency and the FC knowing this would get a lot of publicity, do you think those involved wanted to get this one right?
Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it has been gaffed. I think your faith in "transparency" as a driver for their performance is optimistic / misplaced.
IMO, it's the people operating the process and their insight into what's required that is the key thing. Good people do a good job whether they've got a spotlight on them or not. Average / bad / not experienced in what they're trying to procure people will do an average job irrespective of the potential level of scrutiny. From my involvement with FC over the years I would say that, often not maliciously, that they fall into the latter group, especially when they have a go at something commercial / real world / not their core business.
Heck, as others have said, I don't think they make that much cash at their core business of growing trees.
Never seen so many people attend meetings, in all their corporate gear and with umpteen branded vehicles.
Saying all that I'm not all that anti-FC, just troubled by some aspects.
And in case anybody doesn't get it; FC manage the nations forests (i.e. our land), they do so with money out of the public purse which they then try and offset through revenue (but usually end up being subsidised by central Govt (one reason why their sale is likely by the Con-Dems). All the money to build trails has almost exclusively been from European or public grant schemes. Effectively it's ours and we've already paid for it all, including some £9m (£9-chuffing-m???) glorified tea-shop / cafe.
Hey ho 
Well said Cheeky Monkey!
I currently work in a government department that is fastidious in all transactions and goes to the far end of a fart to jump through all legislative hoops. If the FC is applying 50% of what I see, then the naysayers are just throwing stones.
A tender was bid for, to run a new 200 cover restaurant with a forecast increasing footfall. 2 girls who run a caf in a bus didn't win it. Some people complain. Some people aren't surprised.
I couldn't be less arsed about who runs the cafe, as long as the food and drink served is edible. If it's not, then I won't bother using it.
Then again, I go to GT for the riding, not the eating...
The food is excellent but very over priced and the lack of smiles and unwillingness to help means I won't miss it. For example; asked for a bit of fruit flapjack and got a piece that was at least 1/3 smaller than the rest (not being picky here if you have been you'll know what I mean by size difference)asked if I could have another piece pointing to another batch on a plate but was told I couldn't as they are not allowed to take the clingfilm off one plate til other plate is clear! Totally unwilling to oblige a very simple and easy request.
As for the bike shop - I have personal an second hand experiences that mean I won't be crying when they leave.
Also it may be childish or just my imagination but I just don't like the way the workers look at me when talking to me, not a hint of humility.
+1 for Kenny Wallace roaster of the thread award 
So some Alpine Bike employees should really learn to keep their mouths shut- the tender is not awarded until mid January (supposedly) but somehow they've been told by FCS that they'll have the keys in February. Is that the frosted kind of transparency then? Time will tell...
I couldn't be less arsed about who runs the cafe, as long as the food and drink served is edible. If it's not, then I won't bother using it.
Then again, I go to GT for the riding, not the eating...
What a selfish thing to say. This is about the fact Emma and Tracey (and other folk too) have spent 10 years of their lives, and put a lot of hard work, into building up Glentress. Not only do they deserve the chance to run the new place, they also have the most experience. If it wasn’t for the hard work of a lot of folk you wouldn’t be able to come and “just ride the trails”.
Not sure where you work, but I presume with an attitude along those lines you wouldn’t object if your boss were to tell you in January “Sorry, you’re sacked and we’ve brought someone else in to do your job. Now sling your hook”?
kennyp - MemberNot sure where you work, but I presume with an attitude along those lines you wouldn’t object if your boss were to tell you in January “Sorry, you’re sacked and we’ve brought someone else in to do your job.
That's not at all the same though is it? It's more like being a contractor and your fixed-term contract coming to an end.
Is it right that Alpine Bikes have won the tender for the new Hub? If so, that cant be such a bad thing. The cafes that they run within the Tiso shops serve some very good food.
their shops are also pretty good too
If it is them - and i always thought it 'made sense' then i am not suprised.
They are not allowed loyalty - they must tender on a level playing field - that is a legal requirement and they can't get around that - tell me you are just being provocative on that point. They don't have to understand your costs or your hassle - they contract for a requirement. What do you think they have to do - subsidise your overheads? I do feel for smaller businesses tendering with government departments, but don't complain because the rules force them to deal with an even hand.
Which is usually why big firms win public sector contracts, as they have the staff/expertise to win (the contract...).
So some Alpine Bike employees should really learn to keep their mouths shut- the tender is not awarded until mid January (supposedly) but somehow they've been told by FCS that they'll have the keys in February. Is that the frosted kind of transparency then? Time will tell...
is that not a bit dodgy then have the fcs breached their own rules or somethin?
Or someone with "interest" stoking up a bit of controversy?
not uncommon for successful Tenderer to vet a verbal nod in Public Procurement
Last local rumor I heard was that 3 companies are still in it, might be a different company that runs the bike shop and the cafe ?
From http://www.forestry.gov.uk/glentress
In line with our tender timetable we intend to inform the preferred bidders by 12 January 2011
That's "by", not "until".
Not only do they deserve the chance to run the new place, they also have the most experience.
They did get the chance to run the new place, they were not successful in the tender application.
If it wasn’t for the hard work of a lot of folk you wouldn’t be able to come and “just ride the trails”.Kennyp
Can you explain that bit. I dont doubt that the hub wouldnt be there in its current form if it wasnt for them but im sure something pretty similar would be.
I think that the hub and bike shop are ok, they used to be better run when Emma and Tracy used to have more to do with the day to day running of the place, but no doubt they had to spend time not being as hands on to enable them to grow their business.
Is it just me, or is anyone else getting a whiff of astroturfing?
All the pitches round here are grass, mate. 
proteus - Member
Is it just me, or is anyone else getting a whiff of astroturfing?
On which side of the debate?
All the pitches round here are grass, mate
You say that until you slip on it and get a burn.
What tyres for astroturf?
On which side of the debate?
sounds like you have your suspicions too. interesting.
the only person i'm willing to rule out is me. you?
Hmmm. Interesting. If indeed it is Alpine that have won the tender, I have mixed feelings about this. The staff in St Georges Cross are great and I have been a happy customer for many years. However, I'm also very much in favour of variety when it comes to shopping and in the same way that every high street has become a clone of every other high street, I don't want to see the same happening with the bike trade with one store becoming the Tesco of the industry. Alpine are clearly doing something right in their approach to the market but part of me doesn't want to find the same store everywhere I go. As such, I prefer to make a concerted effort to support the independents such as Escape Route, Biketreks, Wheelcraft and Bikelove to name but a few.
To see the The Hub go will be a very sad day. It could be argued that it's just a shop and cafe and they come and go but it irks me that after putting so much into making Glentress what it is whether though the Kids Club rides on a Saturday or the numerous events that have been organised over the years, all that has been achieved may be quickly forgotten.
Sanny
what Sanny said.
Although AFAIK the FC was obliged to put the contract out to tender...could they have made
"previous relevant experience" a material criterion?
Out of interest, for all those in this thread who have complaints about The Hub and how it is run, have you ever done anything about it other than whinge on a forum? If you feel you have suffered poor service, speak up at the time and make your point. No business wants to have unhappy customers. If you say nothing and quietly fume or just get shouty angry at the time, how do you think things will improve?
As for the everything is overpriced comments, are you being serious? When you go into the likes of Starbucks, do you then go on a forum and complain about the price of your coffee or cake? If you can afford a £3k bike but can't stomach a couple of quid for a bacon butty, I doubt that you will be happy unless the person who makes you your food runs their business at a loss and doths the cap. 
Oy veh!
cynic-al - Member
what Sanny said.Although AFAIK the FC was obliged to put the contract out to tender...could they have made
"previous relevant experience" a material criterion?
Maybe they did. Maybe that's what swung it.
When you go into the likes of Starbucks, do you then go on a forum and complain about the price of your coffee or cake?
When I go to Starbucks, I'm not in a portacabin sitting in mud 
Interesting thread.
I've only been to GT twice, some years ago, and my impression of the cafe and shop was that it could have been so much better. Whether that was because of constraints put on those running it (either their own or from others) I have no idea but it seemed ripe for improvement.
Those running it appear popular and apart from a few negative voices on here, have undoubtedly been an asset to the facility. Running kids clubs and other 'events' may well be done for purely altruistic reasons but makes good business sense as presumably both the kids their parents and other participants will eat in the cafe/buy from the shop/hire bikes. It is however, exactly the same as good bike shop owners do with weekly rides to bring in customers and keep them happy. It is simply good PR and may not have had any relevance to bidding criteria.
They have had quite a long time to get things right and should have been in a very strong position to win. To fail without getting past the second stage shows that something was severely lacking in either their relationship with the FC, the understanding of the requirements, the way that their bid was tendered, or a combination of all three. Not surprising really when you consider that they will have been up against some serious professionals who will unquestionably have put forward a tender which not only fulfilled the criteria but pressed all the right buttons within the FC.
I wish them well but am also hopeful that a better facility will come out of it.
I was sitting in the Hub Cafe about 4months ago having tea/cake and chatting with my mate about the cafe and how it'd pretty much been the same since we started going about 6years earlier. I've always enjoyed it, always thought the prices were comparible to cafes elsewhere in the sticks, always felt comfortable (even in soaking wet muddy clothes), and always always been greeted with a smile and a bit of banter at the desk.
As long as the food's good, tea's hot, you can sit smelly wet and muddy on a chair, and you're not paying through the nose in some dobbies cafe clone then maybe a bit of a change over to the Peel building isn't so bad is it?
It's truly rubbish if Emma and Tracey don't get to have some involvement in the new place; but as with most really good stuff the Hub will probably fade into legendary status and will still be talked about while you're sitting in the Peel cafe having a Lavazza coffee and Pan Au Chocolat after having to take your spuds off.
No surprise there then if it is Alpine Bikes. Sure, the current setup is pretty tatty but as someone above said another chain store clone takes the charm away IMHO. Sure, Alpine is a reasonable bike shop, but just like it's owner Tiso, it's a bit middle of road, corporate, full of average (yet expensive) kit etc although that maybe appeals to the majority of punters.
I would like to say I've had nothing but great service in the bike shop. YMMV.
This topic has been closed to new replies.
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
