Looking to buy a new steed very soon. Coming from a Meta SX (which will be going) and also have a charge cooker. Live on IOW so majority of riding I am overbiked. Regular trail centre visits and occasional Alps trips.
Narrowed it down to above 2 and got a demo of Banshee through Ison/LBS. However, living on IOW does have its drawbacks and not easy to ‘pop’ up to Sheffield for a ‘carpark’ ride.
So……………….anyone ridden both and willing to give me some valuable feedback?

Yup, buy the Banshee.

I’d actually suggest a Banshee Phantom if you’re already considering 29”. On-One is nice for the cash but the Cnae Creek has no lock-out, that’s a no for me on a bike that’s single pivot (linkage driven blah blah blah).

Would the codeine not be more comparable with either the phantom or prime?

As a codeine owner who’s ridden a spitty a bit I’d say if you have the budget to build the banshee of your preference to the spec of the codeine I’d get the banshee, if you’d have to compromise the build (particularly the suspension) I’d get the codeine. The banshee are nicer bikes with better suspension feel but the codeine is still very good and getting on half the price for the frame if you get the db air.

The db air has enough adjustability that you really don’t need lock out.

Thx frazchops. Am sort of swaying towards the Banshee as am loving the demo. Would still be interested to hear from any Codeine owners though.

Cheers mrhoppy. I would be taking majority of bits from my Commie which i’m happy with. Obviously new forks and wheels along with frame. I could get the whole bike from On-one for price that frame, wheels and fork will cost if I go Banshee route. Lucky enough that I can afford it. Whther I can stomach it is a different thing!

The codeine is a really good bike, mines been out to the alps for a week and coped far better than I did, then yesterday did a 60km ride out to scope the mini enduro circuit at Eastridge.

It’s not light but then that’s not its main function, it is tough and it rides really well. it has a playful and engaging ride, it benefits from being actively ridden. I’m consistently faster everywhere than I was on my Bandit, by lots not just a bit. It jumps surprisingly well too. The db air is extremely good and with a bit of work becomes unnoticeable.

I was in a similar position, demoed a 650b Spitfire and ended up with a Phantom. So, so happy with my choice.

You can see my comments on the Phantom vs Spitfire under the same username over at MTBR if it would be of help:

Banshee Phantom Thread

All I can really say is that the Phantom is everything I wanted the Spitfire to be but wasn’t. If your normal riding is UK trail, no huge drops, pedal up style stuff then I think the Phantom is head and shoulders above the Spitfire.

for the cash but the Cnae Creek has no lock-out, that’s a no for me on a bike that’s single pivot (linkage driven blah blah blah).

Decent anti squat design means no need for levers and fluff.
I’m sure Keith Banshee would agree.

Totally agreed Brant. And thanks to both you and Keith Scott for making this decision so hard!!

A prime is nearer the codeine than the phantom. I have just got a prime it’s very good so far.

Thanks but its how the On-One compares to the Spitfire Im interested in. Although we dont have a lot of altitude over here I still tend to hit drops and ride as agressive as I can (even though I wont get any VOD’s). Love the Commie I’ve got but its gotta go – wrong size and is not for climbing and flats. Also ride Gravity Enduro’s but this has to be a bike im also happy riding all day on. Think I’ll just bite the bullet and buy the Spitty.

Still not sure what you are trying to compare. Having ridden both, the Codeine vs Spitfire comparison is apples and oranges (more like bananas and potatoes). Is it because they have similar travel?

If you want that amount of travel and big wheels, but like the pedaling style of the Spitfire, then the Prime would be the bike to go for.

If you want big wheels but (better) Spitfire manners then the Phantom is the one (2 of the protos were raced by Banshee riders in the EWS if you are worried about aggressive riding).

If you don’t want big wheels then the Spitfire is your only option!

The Codeine was harder to pedal up hill than the Spitfire but left the it for dust going down (as did the Phantom and Prime – the Spitfire was the slowest of the lot around Innerleithen XC and DH courses). The Codeine and Phantom handled better than the 650b Spitfire too, particularly in tight stuff. The Codeine didn’t feel like an all day bike as much as the Spitfire.

Both the Codeine and the Prime need to be shoved through some pretty gnarly terrain before they feel exciting, anything less and they feel dull to ride as they monster truck everything. The Phantom and Spitfire are much more poppy and allow you to play with any trail feature you find.

All of them will take a solid beating. There is no such thing as a delicate Banshee!

brant – Member

Decent anti squat design means no need for levers and fluff.

FWIW, Codeine owners I’ve spoken to say they wish it had a lockout- one’s replaced the shock with a CS model which is pretty drastic.

Carpark testing is pretty pointless. Except maybe for size.
Is there anyone nearby with a Codeine you could ride?

I rode 4 Banshees around the same loop at Dalby Forest, unfortunately the Spitfire had a shock on it that needed a service so it’s hard to judge it too much versus the Phantom/Rune/Prime, but all of them pedalled well without flicking levers. The Phanton felt strangely capable for it’s travel length and the rear end is fantastically short. So short and fun, that it had me questioning the Spitfire’s chainstay length and considering running the 650b wheels in the 26″ dropouts.

But I’m guessing you’ve got your eye on a particular Spitfire frame that’s in-stock and discounted, which is why you’re not considering the Phantom. If I was buying a 29er, the Phantom would be right at the top of the list.

looking at this thread with interest, not come accross the Banshee phantom before, but looks very nice (especially in stealth black)

size looks a bit on the cusp for my diminunitive stature (5′ 8″) – anyone know of any similar size folk on one? (obviously test ride is key, but if i could get an idea before arranging)

(especially in stealth black)

The graphics are done really nicely.
They mask off the logo/lettering, then shotblast, then peel off the masking before anodising.
So it’s really just a texture change under the anodising.

Sizing – I’m surprised they say 6′ for the Medium. It felt just ‘normal’ to me at 5’10” 32″ inside leg – slightly short arms.

I think their sizing is a bit off. I’m 6ft with 34″ legs on a Large. The medium felt unrideable for anything other than dicking about on.

FWIW, Codeine owners I’ve spoken to say they wish it had a lockout- one’s replaced the shock with a CS model which is pretty drastic.

I’ve got a Codeine and never once wanted a lockout on it. Pedals fantastically for me. My previous bike was a Canyon Strive: 160mm travel with a shock lockout which didn’t seem to do much. I wanted a better lockout on the Strive.

I like my Codeine a lot. Very happy with how the rear shock works, stiff, playful, big wheels roll over stuff very well, all pivots tight after a dfair bit of hammer inthe short time I’ve had it. Was surprised how much the frame weighed (heavy) when I got it out of box but definitley rides light.

Anyone ridden a Phantom in the Alps? Didn’t really have this one on my radar. Would it still handle, say, 8ft+ drops?

With a transition? I don’t see why not.
It has the same tubeset as the Spitfire, which you can see in action in half of this video:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-Jack-Fogelquist-Back-Home-at-Banshee-2014.html

The rear stays on all the bikes are similar and have a wall down the middle of them (which, along with the dropouts, perhaps accounts for some of the weight).

If you can deal with that kind of drop with only 105mm of rear travel and 120-130mm front then I dare say the bike would be fine going to a transition.

I rode mine for 2 weeks in Colorado and it was fantastic, never felt out of its depth, on trails very similar to the ones I rode when I was with the White Room. Haven’t done any drops above 4ft on mine yet but they were to flat and I barely noticed them. I would say it was a trail bike rather than an Alps bikepark bike though.

The Phantoms are amazing! I have one of the pre release frames and have been riding it since the start of June I think. It is a really fast really versatile bike, super low standover and really well balanced geo.

Interested to hear what position people are running their frames in now they have been out a while? I started off neutral then went steepest when I had a long ride to do and haven’t switched back. Found it a little more poppy and nimble without losing much in confidence and stability.

If it was these Spitfire frames you were looking at:

Spitfires

We also have Phantom frames in stock and rolling chassis offers, get in touch if you want to find out more. We also have a Phantom demo bike available so if you can make it to Edinburgh test away.

Loads of Phantom pictures over on our facebook as well:

Pedals Bike Care Facebook

DeeW – Member

I’ve got a Codeine and never once wanted a lockout on it. Pedals fantastically for me.

I’m not totally sure I’ve got the right dude… I’ve had a similiar conversation with a couple of folks. But if I do, his complaint was basically that there’s so much anti-squat, he found the pedal feedback troublesome when pedalling rough stuff. So he’s ended up with a softer compression tune to compensate for that, and the CS to give it a platform

To be fair he’s properly quick so probably does pedal in places most of us don’t… But it makes sense to me, anti-squat doesn’t know whether you’re pedalling on a fireroad or in a rock garden.

Hey Shackleton,

Notice you said the Phantom was quicker through Inners DH and have also read through thread on mtbr. V interesting. Looks like I might try and get my LBS to get the Ison demo in (if they have one!). Can you tell me if there were any shortfalls in comparison to Spitty? Do you think that you could take everything on that you could on a Prime? Like I said, majority of my riding is trail orientated but try and get away once a quarter to Afan, FOD and BPW and relish taking on DH with maybe an Alps trip thrown in for good measure and maybe a gravity enduro or two. Also a bit of air here and there which usually becomes a ‘man-test’ between mates who all ride 160mm FS (sb66, alpine160, covert). I must say, best bike I’ve owned so far was 2012 Zesty. Could ride most things on that with relative ease and that was a 140mm 26er, so shorter travel wouldn’t bother me too much (don’t quote me on that !). Just don’t like the new ones. Rear brake housing is crap if you’ve got big feet!

The longer i’m involved with mountain biking, the more and more i can safely say “it ain’t about the bike”…….. Sure, some bikes make some things easier than others, but really, it’s about 98% due to the sack on spuds siting on the bike that’s important when it comes to “capability”!

Totally agreed maxtorque, but as you can see from my OP I’m on IOW so getting test rides proves somewhat difficult logistically. I like to do my research first so that I can try and book as many tests in a single visit to the big island as possible!

niksnr –

The only downside I have found to the Phantom is that you do only have 105/120mm travel to soak up hits. While the rear suspension curve is fantastic at not bottoming out harshly and controlling the impact it is never going to give you as much cush as the Spitfire or Prime on bigger drops or huge impacts. So the only downside would be for big drops, but in all honesty unless you regularly ride WC DH courses how many of those do you see on a ride? So long as you have a decent transition I would think the Phantom would be fine. People ride them on hardtails!

The only places I have come unstuck is on repeated, big, square edge hits but that is hardly unusual for a trail bike. My local chewed up DH track also gives me more issues than I would like because there isn’t enough travel in the suspension to fill in all of the dips and braking bumps so you feel like you are skipping over the tops rather than sticking to the floor.

I went with the Phantom because it suited 90% of my riding and it is a proper tough trail bike. I’ll certainly be taking mine to the alps without any hesitation.

As a similar type of bike have a look at the Kona Process 111 reviews on Pinkbike and NSMB. I would say that almost everything they say applies to the Phantom. Also keep eyes peeled on Wideopen mag as they have a Phantom in for review.

As Mr Hoppy remarked earlier, we had both a Codeine and a Spitfire on our alps week this summer, and quite frankly, i’d have been happy riding either of them:

😉

Thanks for all your input guys. I’ll definitely be testing a Phantom soon! One last thing. How did the rear shock situation turn out Shackleton?

I have a monarch on mine and was prepared to shell out for the CCDB inline once they came out but I’m so pleased with how it rides now that I’m not sure I’ll bother (at least until they sort out the minor issues for certain weight/leverage combinations, although I don’t know if these affect the Phantom). I guess it would probably be a good upgrade but is in the desirable rather than essential category at the moment. Maybe I’ll treat myself before I next go to the Alps.

I don’t use the lock out mode and frequently forget to use the trail mode so it gets pedalled in open most of the time and, apart from a few wallowing dips, I don’t notice. Traction is brilliant.

Right, off to ride mine some more now. I’ll be back later to eulogise about it again…. 😉

Yep. Still awesome! 😛

The Codeine does have a ton of anti-squat regardless of how deep into the travel you are:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-k4UN7QT7_74/U2p0urrd19I/AAAAAAAASzo/3_954lBNhrE/s1600/On-One+Codeine+29”+2014_Anti-squat.gif

On the other hand the Phantom has similarly high anti-squat when you’re around the sag point or lower in the travel, but as you start hitting things and compressing the suspension then the anti-squat diminishes:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AA5TgxLnEug/U2WFsuQ-IFI/AAAAAAAAStA/qOMqZqflW70/s1600/Banshee+Phantom+29”+2014_Anti-squat.gif

All the KS-link Banshees are like that.

Shackleton, I recall you said you rode the Spitfire with an inferior fork – something like that would really hold it back. With a 160mm Pike and CCDBA on mine, plus a pretty burly 27.5 build, it’s an unstoppable descender – behaves like a much longer travel bike as it gets gnarlier. Right now I’m tweaking mine to make it less of a rock flattening monster truck and more springy and bouncy so I can fling it about more easily. The other 27.5 vs 29 consideration for me was rims and tyres for uplift days – I don’t like things breaking and spoiling my fun.

(Edit: Why the **** won’t it insert gifs for ****’s sake?)

I don’t know why no one else has said it but the bikes are totally different. The Spitty, which I own is either 26 or 650b and has 140mm rear travel with 150/160mm upfront. The top tube on the medium is 590mm with a head angle of 66.5 deg and a seat angle of 74 deg in the neutral setting for the 650b version. However the Codeine is a 29er with 140/150mm upfront and 130mm rear, 600mm top tube, head angle of 67.5 deg and seat angle of 74 deg in medium and it’s front end sits 10mm taller than the Spitty.

Both bikes will ride totally differently not just because of the different wheel sizes but because of the frame sizing itself. Unless you ride both to see the differences between both then your comparing an apple with an orange pretty much when you look at it from the specs.

I had a Meta 55 prior to my Spitty and they’re poles apart with the Spitty being the better bike in every way and I wouldn’t change it for anything else. It climbs so well despite it weighing around 30-32lbs, I very rarely need to use the climb switch on the CCDBA as the suspension design works at eliminating pedal bob and it descends brilliantly.

If it’s a 29er you’ve really after then like has already been said the Phantom is probably your best choice if you like the way the Spitty rode but you should still try and demo it to be sure.

Also Keith at Banshee is usually on the mtbr forums so ask him questions as he’s a top bloke and answers pretty much everyone’s. His user name is builttoride if I remember correctly.

Chiefgrooveguru
I rode a 650b Spitfire with a X-fusion “thing” on the front. I could tell it was terrible but was convinced by the rest of the bike and wanted a 29er.

Once I had my Phantom I then managed to blag a go on a 150mm Pike equipped Spitfire by chance when at innerleithen which turned into the spitfire/prime/codeine/phantom swapfest (also an SB95 and a Mega AM). Way better with the Pike, and an awesome bike, but I still maintain that for my riding the Phantom is the better bike.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the Phantom works well on pretty much all of the terrain I commonly encounter in Scotland and forays to the Lakes and Peaks. I guess the short travel nature is what makes the Phantom feel like a more taut and responsive ride than the Spitfire. The Spitfire lacked the roll over of the big wheels on small stuff so actually felt less controlled and really only came out on top when you did something that absolutely required more travel to absorb the impact rather than just smooth the ground out. However, both bikes ride in a way that feels like you have more travel than you do, but the Spitfire lets you get away with more as you have the extra travel to catch you. You need to stay on top of the Phantom all the time as you don’t have that leeway.

The main thing I didn’t like about the Spitfire, and this goes for most 26/650b slack HA bikes, is the “floppy front wheel miles out in front of you” feeling on the flat or uphill making the handling feel vague. The Phantom, Prime and Codeine rode with all of the benefits of that slack HA but without the floppy vagueness and I guess it is solely down to wheel size and their respective geometries. A 650b spitfire is also longer than the equivalent size Phantom and feels more ponderous in slow speed twisty stuff.

Writing all of this I have renewed respect for people who review bikes………..