Looking at getting a hardtail again after some 8yrs of just having a full suss and fully rigid bikes. The hardtail is not a replacement for either but an addition. I've been thinking steel, 5"ish forks, preferably coil sprung and able to take 2.3" tyres with ease. Mainly ride xc, all day stuff, though I'll probably use the 575 for longer day rides.
Had a quick look around and I'm thinking of a 456, mainly due to price, so if I don't like it I don't loose much. I already have the majority if the bits to build it.
Is it worth spending a bit more than the 456? I have looked at various frames upto £350ish. Also feel free to recommend appropriate forks for said frame.
Cheers

The 456 is a good price and good geometry, its only possible downside is its a little on the porky side, but really not very much more than any other steel frame of the same type, particularly post CEN, which seems to have made most rather heavier.

They build into a perfectly acceptable weight trail bike, or a more heavy duty rad bike. They're too heavy for the weight weenies though and its doesn't really have any 'steel zing' either.

Mine was 28lbs in trail guise and 26lbs in SS guise. I think you're on the right lines as an additional bike thats not too costly if you don't get on with it, although, IMO its pretty representative of its ilk.

456's are awesome, also considder second hand, steel lasts so not much to worry about.

If your short and can deal with 7lb frames considder the trailstarLT
If your taller than a midget and want to save 2lb try a DMR switchback. Both are steeper than the 456 so (IMO) better on tight singletrack, especialy when climbing.

p.s. I'm selling an 18" DMR switchback, £85 posted if your interested.

ohh and what he said, 456's are STIFF! No wonder Brant rubbishes the idea that steel can have any 'zing', the DMR feels like a sort travel full suss in comparison.

Any thoughts on Ragley or Pipedream?

Yep, nice but will you really be able to tell the difference?

Have you looked around for other frmae only manufacturers?

Foxyrider AKA Kinesis Boy recommends you look as the kinesis Maxlight range – I have had 2 and they are brill 🙂 Can't comment on the On-One – graphics too naff for me 🙂

Thats a few more Kinesis Adword points for me there 🙂

Stiff isn't really a problem, used to ride M2 stumpies over a decade ago and didn't have any problems. I do have a Dialled Love/Hate and I don't really care for it, couldn't say why, it just doesn't feel like one of my bikes….

I was after a Ti Pipedream to replace my 456, but, 5 months of broken promises and occasional lies put me off.

I'm sure they're nice enough bikes, but given my experience, I'm not sure that after care would be too great if something went wrong.

The blue pig and the 456 and the P7 and the Decade Versa and the pipedream are pretty much all similar weights.

Recently sold on an XS Inbred and got one of the new 725 Reynolds tubed Dialled Bikes Prince Alberts. I'm liking it a lot. Currently set up with QR 130 Vanillas but think it would be well worth going for some bolt throughs like Pikes. I fell between on-one frame sizes as 16" versions just seem too long.

Having tried a small Orange P7 and a 16" Cotic Soul extensively I'm glad I bought the Dialled. I was surprised at how well it climbs. Just really planted sat square in the saddle (inline post) up steep techy stuff. Yes, not the lightest frame perhaps, but not noticeably heavier to ride than the Cotic which is a lot more money for something pretty similar when all is said and done. Cotic and P7 both feel a bit lower so you are in the bike and the PA seems a bit taller (higher BB I think) but I like that.

The Cotic works best for general XC (imo) with shorter 120'ish forks and the Dialled copes better (geometry wise) with something a bit longer 130/140. More like the 456 in that regard. I've several friends with the 456 and they all seem to be happy with them on quite long forks over 130mm. It's a bit more of a blunt instrument though, perhaps like the older 520 framed PA's.

So I would buy the frame biased towards the travel/type of fork you intend to fit. The Cotic will probably feel a bit faster all round but would suit less travel than a PA or 456 which lean more and more towards the heavy duty use that a BFe would be aimed at.

An Orange P7 is heavy (the tubing and dropouts can't help) but probably more versatile than any of the others.

They all feel different. Blag a go on different ones if you can because I've been through the "just buy it because it's cheap" and reckon you are better off just getting what you really want from the outset and sticking with it.

Chameleon and Stiffee both worth a look too though as they are lighter. Had a Cove a while back and that felt very hooligan like and put big smiles on your face. Not so good at techy steep climbing though. However on smooth gradual climbs the lower weight was a boon (fire road climbs in the Alps with mates on Enduro's/Patriots etc). Had a Mountaicycle Rumble too which is of a similar vein though heavier.

Hope that gives you some reasonable insight from a perpetual frame swapper.

Cheers Tasso. Cotic is a bit pricey, but sounds good, might keep an eye out for a 2nd hand one

Ok then foxyrider convince me why the maxlight is the one to go for, given I'm looking at steel ideally…. Though if the frame is right then alloy is an option, the lightness does appeal.

I'm loving my 456 at the moment it climbs really well for what it is and descends fantastically. Im faster up hill than on my old Pitch which isnt really surprising but I also seem to be a bit faster downhill. Maybe its because the bike is more suited to the local conditions or that a pitch is just too slack for anything but DH. 456 with (currently broken) Pikes BTW

What about a decade virsa if you wanna go steel P20? I love my Pro3 so far (only had it a month – had an XC2 before that) v hard ride on rear on teh XC2 but very 'responsive' 🙂 V plush on teh XCPro3 but great a climbing – just drives me to cycle faster 🙂

Decade Versa gets very good reviews FWIW: