Wont name names yet.
Purchased a new item on line it arrives I remove it from its packaging.
Im sure I want to keep it so throw away the packaging. I then decide/realize that in fact I need a slightly different version.

Contact the retailer explain that I would like to exchange the item, it is un used and I have the receipt but not the packaging. Only had it a few days.

I am told I cant return it for exchange as I dont have the packaging. There own web site return policy states that if original packaging has gone they reserve to right to levy a charge for replacement packaging. Thats fine happy to soak up a charge. They inform me that they are unable to source a new box (Shimano component) and I am stuck with the item.

I even offer that the replacement they send me, they keep the box from it for the one im returning. Quite happy to receive the exchange in a plain box/jiffy bag.

No they cant do this as the sticker/code on it would differ.

So thats it im stuck so looked on line and found the following within the DSR;

Packaging
The purpose of the DSRs is to allow customers to examine goods
they have ordered as they would in a shop. If that requires opening
the packaging and trying out the goods, then they have not breached
their duty to take reasonable care of the goods.
In these circumstances, you cannot insist that customers return the
goods as new or in their original packaging. You may ask customers
to take care when they open the package or return goods with the
original packaging, but you cannot insist on this.
The DSRs do not provide for goods to be returned in a fit state
for resale.
You should think carefully about your packaging and how easy it is
to open and put back together so that the integrity of the product
can be maintained to enable resale.

So where do I stand ?

Thanks for any input

You should think carefully about your packaging and how easy it is
to open and put back together so that the integrity of the product
can be maintained to enable resale.

What exactly is the product?

Most Shimano Components come packaged in very easy to open and easy to reassemble boxes I think they’re being quite fair. You’ve thrown away the packaging then later you’ve changed your mind and decided you don’t actually want the product anymore…(rather than open the box and realise they’ve sent a 34.9mm clamp instead of 36.4mm for instance)

I guess if that’s what the DSRs say then email that to them and ask for a returns number at the same time, otherwise it’s suck it up or small claims court.

Would agree billy the component is a mech and if I had just decided I didn’t want it well then fair enough.
But was only looking for a exchange on the item for a slightly different version.

You can always email citizens advice and see what they say.

Its all well and good for everyone to be wise after the event, but if I no longer had the packaging for something I’d bought online, I would accept that the seller had no obligation to take it back. Even if the goods themselves were still untouched and new.

If the box is all taped up and needs cutting I’ll open it as best that I can so that I can package it back up in the state of packaging they sent it to me (e.g. if its a fork and they’ve turned the box inside out so they can use it as the outer packaging).

I think you’re out of luck unfortunately.

Howsabout order the new one, wait for it to arrive, swap the box yourself and send back?

i think if memory serves youve got more rights as a web customer…i thought you have 14 days to get a no-quibble refund whatever the problem…i dont think the packaging is an issue

your interpretation of the DSR is a bit foggy…

no where there does it say destroy and throw away the packaging.

no shimano mech i know of comes in a plastic blister pack that requires detonation to remove it. there for its a perfectly reasonable expectation that you could stick said mech back into the box to return.

I think there is some small print somewhere about it being fit for resale. Which it isn’t without the packaging. Which differs from above.

Put it in the classifieds and buy another. IMHO not worth small claims/citizens advice for a small amount.

edit: nah got mixed up with t&c’s on a site.

Can’t you just fish the packaging out of the bin?

Did you have to open the packaging of mech to realise it was the wrong one?

My understanding of the DSR is that they only have to accept it back without the original packaging if opening the item was required to realise it wasn’t what you wanted.

If you ordered something, got what you ordered, opened it, chucked the packaging then just changed your mind later because you wanted something different then I think that’s your problem and not the shops.

If you ordered something, got what you ordered, opened it, chucked the packaging then just changed your mind later because you wanted something different then I think that’s your problem and not the shops.

This would seem to be at odds with what was posted above?

The purpose of the DSRs is to allow customers to examine goods
they have ordered as they would in a shop. If that requires opening
the packaging and trying out the goods, then they have not breached
their duty to take reasonable care of the goods.

Just thinking, what its considered ‘packaging’ in the DSR’s?

I wonder if that only covers the postage packaging? But then how would you try on a t-shirt or similar? (since they are often in bags-inside-bags when posted)

Packaging went in the bin on Friday.
The reason for changing my mind was installing a 2 x 10 set up on my bike. Gearing/cassette wise I went for the long cage, other parts of the set up had not arrived. Then had a change of mind and corrected the other items. Thus the mech was now the wrong one and I required a M cage.
Never intended to be arsy the returns procedure states that they will levy a surcharge for missing/damaged packaging. Fine no problems happy with that and I wanted to just return exchange for the different mech.

Lifes too short will just order else where and never shop wih them again.

People seem to be missing the key phrase?

Packaging
“you cannot insist that customers return the goods as new or in their original packaging.”

it’s counter-intuitive, tbh it’s no wonder people assume the rules are different. Every time i’ve had a DSR issue it’s not been through spite or anything, just that it doesn’t work quite how you assume.

I would very politely and reasonably contact them quoting the relevant part (stripped of irrelevant parts as they just add confusion) and linking them to an online resource. Treat it as a “gently making you aware that you have to” rather than a “YOU WILL DO THIS ITS TEH LAW” in the first instance. It’s not failed me yet.

If that fails then a second note saying you’ve taken advice and are contacting trading standards might focus the mind. “Taking advice” is a great phrase, you don’t need to say who the advice is from 😉

My point about packaging and the DSR statement was for something like clothing you need to open and inspect it to see if it fits but for a a mech you don’t. The interpretation depends on what the product is and the shop doesn’t have the same obligation for all product types.

I think most shops would just swap it irrespective of what the DSR says in the interest of possible future business from you but in this case I don’t think the DSR says they have to if they want to be awkward.

mauja – Member

My point about packaging and the DSR statement was for something like clothing you need to open and inspect it to see if it fits but for a a mech you don’t.

You’re entitled to examine it regardless- there’s no restriction of things that need to be tried on or that might or might not fit, you could take your mech out of its box and decide it’s the wrong shade of silver and that’s an equally legit reason for return.

My point about packaging and the DSR statement was for something like clothing you need to open and inspect it to see if it fits but for a a mech you don’t. The interpretation depends on what the product is and the shop doesn’t have the same obligation for all product types.

While practically i agree with you, its really not the choice of the seller to say “i dont think you need to open it to check” when selling by mail order. If you choose to sell in that manner you have to meet the associated regs, same as you do if you open a physical shop.

For example i just bought an LX mech, i had to open the packaging to see it and found it was a dull matt silver not polished (like it looked in some pictures). Now under my interpretation of DSR i could send the mech back if i wanted, im sure it works but its not what i wanted and the only way to know was to have it in my hand, not in a box. (The purpose of the DSRs is to allow customers to examine goods
they have ordered as they would in a shop)

Not sure how many shops would allow customer to walk in pick up an item to then proceed with tearing up the packaging and throwing it away before deciding to put it back and buy something else, seems a bit off really.

Stato- Now that’s just uncanny

Not sure how many shops would allow customer to walk in pick up an item to then proceed with tearing up the packaging and throwing it away before deciding to put it back and buy something else, seems a bit off really.

But thats a shop, in a shop the owner is perfectly entitled to not let customers see items if they dont want to. But you cant sell an item over mail-order and not allow the user to return if its not what they wanted.

Stato- Now that’s just uncanny

LOLZ!

Before the DSR statement that says “you cannot insist that customers return the goods as new or in their original packaging” it says “in these circumstances”. i.e the shop can’t insist on as new or in original packaging when the circumstances require the packaging to be opened to inspect the item and even then the buyer has a duty of care for the item and the shimano box could be considered part of the item.

The whole aim of the DSR is to make sure mail order buyers aren’t disadvantaged when making a purchase compared to going into a shop.

Would you think it’s reasonable to go into a shop and open the packaging of a mech in a way that means it can’t be repackaged?

You can try quoting the DSR to the shop but in my opinion it’ll make them even less likely to help and to be honest I don’t even think you’d be in the right.

Just buy the right mech and put the wrong mech in that box and post it back with a returns form.

How likely is it that they then send it back to you because it “has the wrong sticker on it”.

However because you have been in contact with them they might be looking out for that!

Also there is the option of saying its faulty… However prob wont work with a mail order shop!

Maybe if this unnamed derailleur was named, some helpful individual or shop could send you a box with the right stickers on.

The shop in in breach of the law, politely point that out to them, and remember never to use them again.

Do you really want to be using any shop that doesn’t know the very laws it must operate within? I wonder what other laws they think don’t apply to them?

Oh, and name them here obviously.

The mech is a Shimano XT M786 shadow plus SGS in black currently advertised in classifieds.

Do you really want to be using any shop that doesn’t know the very laws it must operate within?

They probably know the laws very well, just a case of prolonging it until someone gives up.

I fully back DSR but you have to think at what point is it worth it. For me personally my time is worth more than the hassle of small claims, trading standards etc. Had it been an item of significant expense it would be a different matter.

I wonder what other laws they think don’t apply to them?

He who casts the first stone……

the returns procedure states that they will levy a surcharge

Umm… no it doesn’t, it states they “reserve the right to levy a charge”. A wee bit different.

Just suck it up and learn from it, I did. 😉

sell it as ‘new but no packaging’ on ebay for slightly less than you paid, and keep the box next time?
christ.
hell, sell it for more if you got a good deal and are feelin’ cheeky.

Gearing/cassette wise I went for the long cage, other parts of the set up had not arrived. Then had a change of mind and corrected the other items. Thus the mech was now the wrong one and I required a M cage.

i’m assuming that you made these changes to the other parts you’d ordered before the rear mech had arrived, therefore you knew the rear mech would be the wrong one….if this is the case you should have kept hold of the packaging…
not trying to kick you while you’re down but you’ll just have to put it down to experience….
whenever i’ve ordered anything online i keep the packaging until i know for sure its the correct component and is working as it should be…

Edit: worse case scenario…do what Smiff suggests and get the one you actually wanted..