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old konas?

38 posts & 22 voices | Started 3 years ago by aw | Latest reply from aw

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aw - Member

I have an old kona cindercone and it is shonky with rust etc on the frame. As a singlespeed it is great fun to ride and feels light. I think it is only cromoly steel but I don't really know. Feels like it should be 853 but I doubt it?

So I was wondering if it is that special and it is only bog standard steel then how special would a Cotic soul in full 853 Reynolds be?

What other steel hardtails in 853 are special?

I am a SSer so please give me a list of possible 853 steel hardtails that are singlespeedable (i hate chain tensioners) to spend my pennies on?

wanna repalce the 'cone' as it will not last forever...or will it!

Posted 3 years ago #
alpin - Member

sanderson something-or-ruver. i got the breath and although it isn't 853, it's more expensive brother, the life, is.

very nice frame.

ah, found it.....

edit: sorry, turns out it is only cro-mo. but it still gives a brilliant ride although i have not compared the cro-mo to the 853.

Posted 3 years ago #
aw - Member

Thanks alpin, the sanderson has had good reviews on here. I notice it employs the EBB method to tension the chain - I am not a great fan of EBBs but it does say it is trouble free

Posted 3 years ago #
Harryburgundy - Member

Not always the frame material...who build it helps quite a bit too. Cinder cone wasn't 853 BTW....what year is it?

Posted 3 years ago #
samuri - Member

well clearly the original 853 inbred was the benchmark for singlespeeds. I doubt there's a huge amount left in existence though.

Posted 3 years ago #
Harryburgundy - Member

well clearly the original 853 inbred was the benchmark for singlespeeds. I doubt there's a huge amount left in existence though.

Benchmark for cheap and cheerful singlespeeds granted. Not that light, poorly finished and OK to ride....but cheap, yes.

Posted 3 years ago #
Surfr - Member

How about the Cotic Simple?

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/simple

853 and looks to follow the old Kona geometry at a glance (albeit for a 100-130mm fork now).

Posted 3 years ago #
Hairychested - Member

Love Hate?

Posted 3 years ago #
takisawa2 - Member

wanna repalce the 'cone' as it will not last forever...or will it!

Why wouldnt it ?
Nowt better than steel for fatigue life.

Posted 3 years ago #
rogerthecat - Member

Am just about to start building a single speed on my early 90s Kona Cindercone, the frame has seen a huge amount of action but, being steel, I am expecting at least 10 years more life out of it which is about 5 more than my legs.

In the dim recesses of my age befuddled brain I seem to remember Reynolds 501 being in vogue when it was built - frame has long since lost it's stickers and been repainted but if anyone knows if they stamped ID numbers for the steel used anywhere I can check at lunchtime and report back.

Cheers, Paul.

Posted 3 years ago #
Harryburgundy - Member

Get a picture up Paul...if it still has the original paint and decals shouldn't be too hard to age

Posted 3 years ago #
skinnysteel - Member

Not 853, have to go a couple of points up the steel frames range to get one. For the benefit of Kona fetishists:
http://www.konaretro.com/showarticle.php?path=articles/catalogues/

Re the Soul comparison, as an ex '96 cone owner, provided you accept that its a short travel, no discs xc biased frame, I'd suggest you need to drop a bit more cash to beat the old steel Kona feel (TM). If that sounds like your bag, and if Sideways are still dealing with him I'd consider a Dekerf. Otherwise do up the Kona.

Posted 3 years ago #
rogerthecat - Member

Harryburgundy - thanks for the offer but it has long since lost any ID except some frame stamps on the bottom of the BB.

However, looking through the catalogues (Cheers Skinnysteel) it is a 1992 Cindercone - jeezus I am getting old!!

Just been in the garage rubbing the frame down - getting all sentimental rebuilding the old girl as a SS.

Posted 3 years ago #
aw - Member

Harry...the kona is a 97 and on retro kona site looking through the PDFs of the old brochure it says vaguely cromly steel?

incidentally mine is a little rusty in places where the cables have rubbed. I was thinking of sticking some patches or stickers to protect the frame from further damage?

Mine is SS but having grief with the chain tensioner (I hate tensioners). I cannot position it well enough to gt enough tension on the chain!

The picture below is of the cone but before I fitted the new tensioner (the old one broke).

I am amazed you say skinnysteel that you need to 'drop more cash' than buying a cotic soul! Do others agree because if so i will persist with it although as you point out it is not disc compatible (I always thought Vs were adequate) and has a rigid fork (the famous P2 no less).

Posted 3 years ago #
clubber - Member

Old konas live forever

My 95 Kilauea is still going strong having done everything from racing to touring to riding in the US to now being used for commuting and baby carrying. Admittedly the dropout had to be rewelded and it's been repainted twice but the ride is still spot on.

I've also ridden several 853 frames (and own one) and I wouldn't get hung up on the tubes too much. The design is much more important.

Posted 3 years ago #
aw - Member

clubber do you prefer your kona to the more modern 853 frames?

Posted 3 years ago #
Bez - Member

853 will not make one iota of difference to the ride.

Your Cindy is double butted cro-mo, same as my '96 Lava Dome, which is one of the best frames I've had. It rides exactly, absolutely exactly, the same as the Hot I had from the same era - and the tubing on that was posher than 853.

And it will last a lifetime. My '93 Kilauea is still going strong; the Lava Dome did split at the chainstay (it had deep chainsuck gouges from its previous marriage) but it was crudely and cheaply (but effectively) welded up by the local smithy five years ago and is as good now as the day it was made.

Keep the Cindy. I'm never parting with my Lava Dome. The grass really is not greener.

(And FWIW my Lava Dome is the same as yours* - P2s, Vs, SS - although I dropped the tensioner and filed the dropouts a bit to get a magic ratio... anyway, it's a setup that suits it beautifully)

* except it hasn't got a stem like a totem pole - try whacking a lower one on and pulling the seat forward half an inch on the rails, it'll transform the bike; more of your weight up front makes it turn a bit sharper and hold corners better...

Posted 3 years ago #
clubber - Member

aw - Member
clubber do you prefer your kona to the more modern 853 frames?

It's hard to call really.

My Kilauea rides brilliantly, particularly on singletrack but despite the top end tubing of the time (Tange Prestige), it's not particularly springy though that's never really bothered me. It's also limited in that it doesn't have disc mounts (I use a Hope C2 with a universal mount) and while it will work with a 100mm fork, it's best with 80mm or shorter.

My other current steel bike - an 853 inbred - actually rides very similarly to the Kona which isn't really suprising since the geometry and my setup is actually pretty similar but it has the option of running up to a 5" fork and takes discs, etc. There's no appreciable difference in the spring of the frames though.

As above, the tubing really isn't the key factor, though people clearly want to believe that it is to justify the extra price. Design of tubing/geometry/etc is what counts. A steel frame designed to run a 5" fork will necessarily be overbuilt at the front end compared to something designed to run shorter forks (to deal with the extra leverage), likely resulting in a relatively stiff ride. My experience swapping parts directly from a Pace RC303 (fat alumninium tubes) to an on-one 456 backs this up (the 456 was certainly no more comfortable/springy/other marketing term or forum BS) as have several other bikes I've ridden. In fact, there are actually very few steel bikes that genuinely have enough spring in them to really make any significant difference compared to what tyres/seat tube length/diameter/etc will make though don't tell that to all the people who desperately want to believe otherwise

Posted 3 years ago #
Surfr - Member

Old konas do make fantastic SS bikes.

I adore my '94 Cindercone

Posted 3 years ago #
skinnysteel - Member

Sorry AW, forgot to say that I have a Soul also, so accepting that the old cone was fitted with XT v's and original 70mm travel RC36's, and the Soul has 130 forks and discs, and they are separated by 10 years, which makes a direct comparison irrelevant, I will ignore that and say that the cone gave more grins per buck than the Soul does. Totally subjective and based on rose-tinted recollection, but there you go.

Posted 3 years ago #
aw - Member

mine is still giving me grins

I agree about 853 although I never had one it is my impression it is held up as some mystic material. Many steel hardtails have bog standard cromly steel and perform very well indeed...old konas, inbreds, etc.

I was looking through the Evans catalogue today (due to inmnet C@W schedme) and the charge duster and charge eight stood out like a sore thumb against the numerous Treks, Spesh, Scott alu HTs. They look so generic and boring. I am sure they are good bikes in their own right but there's something about those skinny tubes that does it for me

Posted 3 years ago #
ir_bandito - Member

Do both. I have a '95v Cindercone that I toured around Australia and NZ on, racking up 8500km with 40kg of lugagge on it. Its now "retired" to singlespeed duties playing in the locla woods and riding to the pub.
I've also got a Cotic Simple, with a Rohloff Speedhub. Differences are phenomonal, but there is some thing very similar about both bikes.

Posted 3 years ago #
konabunny - Member

never, ever get rid of an old kona

Posted 3 years ago #
NZCol - Member

I've got a 90 Explosif thats a S/S nowadays. I might 1x9 it though as i prefer gears on the Wellington hills ! Fits like a pair of comfy old shoes tho....

Posted 3 years ago #
woffle - Member

My father has got a 1992(I think) Cinder Cone hanging in the garage - it's literally been ridden 4 or 5 times since new. He bought it when I was a nipper to do the London>Brighton together and was out on a couple of local trail rides but since then it's just been hung on the wall. Still completely standard with Suntour throughout - it's just got slicks on at the moment with the original tyres somewhere in the shed.

I keep meaning to 'borrow' it...

Posted 3 years ago #
Alex - Member

I think mine is a 1992. Bez knows, I can never remember. I wouldn't want it as my only bike, but it's brilliant fun in the woods, and I use it to ride with the kids. This came resprayed with new decals, so it looks quite nice too.

Can't see me ever parting with it.

Posted 3 years ago #
thepodge - Member

94 Cinder cone here, stripped of hears & rear brake and looking tatty cos its my pub bike. if I had the money it would get a full strip and rebuild only problem is I'd not know if to update it or try and keep it as retro as poss.

Posted 3 years ago #
GaryLake - Member

Bought a '91 Cinder Cone frame at the Bristol Bike jumble the other day - £35!

I had '94 Cindy and Fire Mountains when I was a youngun chasing my Dad around the trails, and I've after one for old times sake for a while.

Posted 3 years ago #
cp - Member

Surfr - that is gorgeous!

I really regret selling my '94 Lava Dome... though i was a skint high school student when it went in '97ish...!

frame design WAY more important than tubing spec IMO...

aw - how about taking your current frame to a frame builder, getting some back entry dropouts welded on, and having a respray? source some kona decals and job's a good 'un

Posted 3 years ago #
Mike-E - Member

I have a 1994 Kona Kilauea frame languishing in the garage (triple butted tange prestige steel was cutting edge back in the day).

Must resist the temptation to restore it to its former glory...

Posted 3 years ago #
clubber - Member

You really should give in to temptation...

Posted 3 years ago #
Mike-E - Member

Not now. Maybe after the summer? Winter project? What do you mean, I've already got three other bikes...

Posted 3 years ago #
clubber - Member

Only three? Well you definitely need to then!

Posted 3 years ago #
anotherdeadhero - Member

Well my old Kona is 853 - and even I'm not going to try and tell you that it makes some kid of magical difference. I love the frame becuase of the handling, which just seems perfect to me.

If I were you, I'd get that cindercone a respray and a few bits to get her running tip top again.

I spent a lot of money getting track ends welded into mine. There are plenty of frames about now that would probably avoid having to do that, I'm not sure I'd recommend it. I'm happy I did it with mine, but it was rather extravagant.

I've had other more modern double butted cromo frames, which can take 5" forks and discs etc, always I try to get something with a kona-esque geometry and feel. I had a Pipedream Sirius, that was ace, no SS flavour avail though AFAIK.

So if you really want to, buy something modern with an EBB, track ends or slidy dropouts and kona-esque geometry. I'd avoid things like the love/hate which are a bit sturdy compared to your Kona, and try to get something a bit lighter and whippy. An 853 badge isn't a guarentee. On-ones always feel a bit long to me.

But really you just need to get that cindercone sprayed and given a bit of TLC.

Posted 3 years ago #
clubber - Member

On-ones always feel a bit long to me

You fall between sizes though don't you (ie you ride a 17" Kona while One one would be 16 or 18"). For me the On-ones are almost identical to my Kilauea in terms of top tube length and just the general feel out on the trail. Not really suprising since if you line them up side by side, the silhouettes are almost identical other than the longer fork on the inbred...

Posted 3 years ago #