Sorry for yet another tubeless thread but........following on from my "do having lighter wheels make any difference" thread.
Ive ordered a stans noTubes kit to convert my normal rims to tubeless and was going to just try and run my minion and swampthing neither of which are UST/LUST but both are dual ply.
Is it going to end in disaster trying to run non UST tyres tubeless?
Cheers
I'm watching this with interest... though if m research is anything to go by the answer will be "maybe"
There will be faff.. and mess..
Normal rims, leccy tape and a plastic rim strip, old inner tube valve, art shop latex + water 70/30, and UST tyres works well though.
Edit to add - it's the compatibility between the stan's kit and the rim, plus the fact that non-UST or TR tyres just don't seal well (unless you use the split inner tube method) that may give you problems. UST tyres cope with teh lower pressures better anyway and it's the pressure i find the real benefit, rather than any weight saving. Good luck tho - any faff and experimentation means you'll find a method that works in the end.
you'll be fine.
just make sure the tyres are well seated before you start adding sealant or it'll be messy.
I've always found taking a valve core out helps with initial inflation to get the beads into the rim properly - you can get more airflow more quickly.
There shouldn't be an issue. Maxxis tyres are probably the best for non UST tubeless conversions. I've done none UST conversions with Advantage, Crossmarks, High Rollers,Schwalbe Racing Ralph, Conti Edge, Panaracer Fire XC Pros without any problems. Valve core removal and seating before adding gunk is key however. Once you've done it a couple of times it's easy with little faff.
Interested .. anyone who's used non-UST been able to seat them with a normal pump or trackpump?
I say I've had no luck with non-UST as the Conti's I tried needed gas to seat so couldn't be re-seated on the trail and burped at low pressure on UST rims. My leccy tape and latex job can have a bit of sealant added and be re-seated, sealed and inflated with a minipump so it's more fixable away from the workshop. Tried popping tubes in as a fix but by the time you've checked for thorns etc.. trail-fixable UST rules.
Should be fine with non-UST tyres.. although some brands don't seem to work particularly well (Panaracers for example).
Some tips I've found useful when I went tubeless:
* Put the tyre on and inflate with a tube to get it seated on the beads correctly. Then just pop off one bead (leaving the other intact) and remove the tube. For new tyres it sometimes helps to leave it inflated with the tube in overnight so that the tyre shapes to the wheel (where the tyre may have been folded).
* Lubricate the rim with soapy water - helps the bead pop onto the rim more quickly when you inflate it.
* Remove the valve core the first time you inflate it, to help it inflate more quickly. Also using a compressor, gas cartridge or 'ghetto inflator' will make it easier to inflate it. It is possible to do it with a track pump, but can be hard work!
* Tie a strap around the rim and tyre where the valve is and tighten it so it compresses the tyre about half way at that point. This is often where it fails to seal best, so this helps...
I've run normal maxxis tyres and specialized 2bliss on normal rims.
Mavic EN521 needed a few layers of electrical tape and the correct sized stans strip but went up with no faff then for both the maxxis and the 2bliss.
DT X470 just needed some electical tape to seal the rim and a valve cut from an old inner tube.
Soapy water, compressors, removing valve cores, tying the tyre on with string, and 90% of other trick people tell me to try don't work or just add effort and IME if it takes tricks like that to get it on it 's likely to fall off again. Add to that that if you do get a puncture you wont have all that kit in your camelpack whereas preparing properly and making sure the tyre seats on the rim with just a hand pump means less chance of a faff mid ride. The mavic rim required 30g of insulation rape and a stans strip (~80g in total IIRC) which wipes out most of the weight saving when you add 80ml of sealenet, but it's never burped. The DT one was about 10g of electrical tape and 80ml of sealent so saved a fair chunk of weight.
Surely there's more chance of 'burping' with a non-UST? Or will the stiffness of the Dual Ply tyres stop this?
I suppose if they're dual ply and wire beaded it'll work.
I'd dearly love to know as this is way the cheapest in a world of ever inflating tyre prices. (pun intended)
Also depends on how old/baggy/holey your current tyres are...
IME best to start with new tyres
A quick guide here - one tip - inflate your new tyres (I wouldn't use old ones are they will be like Edam cheese) with tubes overnight and get them warm first (put them in a sink of hot water and they will pump up better:
http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/features/maintenance/stans-no-tubes-guide.htm
Surely there's more chance of 'burping' with a non-UST? Or will the stiffness of the Dual Ply tyres stop this?I suppose if they're dual ply and wire beaded it'll work.
I'd dearly love to know as this is way the cheapest in a world of ever inflating tyre prices. (pun intended)
1) possibly, but 2bliss, TLR etc are tubeless beads on a non tubeless tyre so no mor likely to burp than a UST tyre, the sidewall doesn't help this, if it's flimsy enough to fold over you need to run more pressure, or your probably about to crash anyway.
2) no difference IME between kevlar and wire beads, other than occasionaly steel ones snap.
3) When I started MTB'ing 15 years ago a cheep tyre was a steal beaded conti gravity/vapour/vertical for £11.99, My latest set of tubeless ready, kevlar beaded, dual compound, lighter, better rolling and infinately better gripping specialized purgatorys were £22.50 each. That's a 4% increace each year, and the tyres are considerably better in every measurable way.
specialized purgatorys were £22.50 each
Where from?
I've been a fan of Maxxis for years but their prices are so silly there days. Must have gone up 20-25% in less that 2 years.
http://www.hargrovescycles.co.uk/products.asp?partno=42608
£21.24 infact! Mine were the 29er version bought from the EBC so slightly more expensive.
I have never run a tubeless ust type tyre with any stans set up nor have i had any problems.
If you have ordered a kit your halfway there as the genuine rim strip is so far and away better than the split inner tube method.
Biggest problem most people have is they don't build the centre rim bed up high enough which means the tyre is a sloppy fit and without a compressor you will have little chance of getting enough air into the tyre to seat it onto the bead you want the bead near the centre of the rim to be almost so tight that you cant turn the tyre.
Dont worry as once youve inflated it the tape etc wil be pushed into place by the air and the next install will be far easier
The genuine rim strip also has an extra bead which when the tyre is seated gives a really tight rim seal.
Most of the things i read about tubeless not working are mainly down to the cheap and not so cheerful method !
The right kit for the right job springs to mind 
Cheers for all the responses guys, some really usefull information (on STW what the hell is going on 
)
All I can do is try and if it works out I'll let everyone know, by the sounds of it though I should be fine. I think the only stumbling block may be my pump but we'll see.
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