Yes I know that Apple make stuff that works well but I find using iTunes a pita so was thinking of something different.

The Sony NWZE585 16GB Walkman seems to tick the boxes for what I want, any other recommendations ?

Thanks

The Sony players are great, stick with that

I dont need anything more than a sansa clip zip with rockbox, i use the mobile if i need to do something fancy.

Why not use your phone? Whack in a big memory card, fill it up and away you go. One less gadget.

there are alternatives to itunes arent there?

I have an old 4gb Nano that is full so need more capacity, Phone idea would solve that but is a bit bulky.

I’ve had a Creative Zen before which was good but had to get it replaced under warranty a couple of times because of ongoing software issues.

Are there alternatives to iTunes for Apple products ?

To go off on a bit of a tangent. Time was, I would have a moan at the OP about ruling out Apple devices, but the truth is that Apple have/are abandoning their iPod range. Reason being exactly what CFH suggests, in that people are using their phones now. So for those looking for just an mp3 option, there are probably better options out there.

Thing is, I can understand the overlap with devices like the Touch, and maybe the Nano, but it boils my piss the Shuffle is STILL only 2GB, and yet is the same price it has been for 6 years.

So in summary, get a Sony or s Sansa Clip with a memory card.