Yup, we are in a wheel of inevitability.

Sadly rising house prices make people feel well off so they spend money which politicians like as it makes them more likely to get voted back in.

None of the parties would actually clamp down on credit and spend money building houses.

Whoever proposed those two things would be unpopular so its not going to happen.

I know lots of serfs who surf. Serfs might also go in for imaginary social mobility through conspicuous consumption. Driving round in a big old jallopy doesn’t change your class position, it can, in many ways, confirm it.

I’m self employed in a job I could easily continue 1-2 days a week after 65 which would pay me enough for a comfy living whilst giving me something to do. At present I have done a uturn and stopped growing the business; in fact, I’ve shrunk it by 40% this year. This is due to having a new baby and wanting to spend the nedt few years being with him as much as possible. A life choice, family over money. Why would I want to dig in at work in my prime years only to wake up at 65 with money, but a looser bond and fainter set of memories of those around me?

I’ve decided I can always grow the business in future once kid/s grown up and left if I want. We don’t have a mortgage but as I said before may upscale to a bigger home if we can afford to. I reckon spare money put intoa property could be worth more than pension funds. And downsize at retirement, or rent out property.

There will be some form of state pension in 40 years; ok, I may not manage three trips around the world per year and a large jag in retirement, but we should be able to eat

I think I’ll be OK. I don’t trust that there will be any state pension at all when I am older and the world can suck my cock if they think I’m working past 65.

So you’re paying a pile into you’re pension, your mortgage is paid off but you’re going to work until you’re 65?

Edit: although from a thread a few weeks ago you were thinking of retiring now, or you were when you were 32.

My plan is to retire at 56, I’ll have a reasonable pension fund by then plus my wife is a teacher and has a fantastic pension.

Just over 8 years to go 🙂

Or is this shrinking a very recent trend due to the last recession? If so it’s nothing compared to the overall growth in the last 40 years.

A vast number of middle class jobs have either been replaced by technology (secretaries, admin staff etc) or out sourced by Globalisation. The remaining white colour workers are seeing a steady fall in living standards relative to the generation before (pensions, home ownership, purchasing power). Most middle class children today will not be as well off as their parents.

Most middle class children today will not be as well off as their parents.

Aye, bloody baby boomers, coming here, taking our future.

In all seriousness, there will surely be a point in 20-30 years or so where working age adults get fed up for forking out for all the 100year olds’ 40 years of retirement, medical care and final salary pensions (either in tax for healthcare or strain on businesses through pension bills).

Complex this, I think. Define living standards?

We can buy a lot of stuff now that our parents could not, but that’s because those things are cheaper. Our first ‘computer’ in 1983 cost £179!

The contents of the supermarkets has improved too I think, so perhaps we are buying better food. What else has changed?

@molgrips

A complex you say?

Well my grandparents grew up in a Northern cotton mill town. They had no money, no holidays, no car, no savings, basically nothing at all other than a roof over their head and basic food on the table. They didn’t even have an indoor toilet. That’s how most ordinary people lived in those days. The middle class mill owners had a nice big town house and lived a fairly grand life in comparison, but there were hardly millions of them. It was slightly better for my parents. They managed to scrimp and save for a modest little semi by the time they were in their 50s. Even bought a new car (VW Lupo) as a retirement present. They had a far more comfortable lifestyle than their parents ever did. No debt involved for them either, just honest hard work.

As for my family, we have a generous income, several properties home and abroad, 3 cars and the sort of lifestyle that my grandparents would simply not believe could exist. No debt or loans either, other than a reasonable mortgage that will be paid off in the next 8 years. Contrary to popular belief not everyone is in massive debt to fund their modern lifestyle. Numpties getting themselves into serious debt makes a better headline story than the millions who just live comfortably within their means. Credit can be used sensibly too and most people do control it pretty well IME.

That’s how most ordinary people lived in those days.

That’s what I’m saying. Aren’t living standards measured relatively?

I when TVs came out they were high value luxury goods. Now, having a flat screen telly is nothing, it’s just what everyday pepole own. So are living standards higher or not?

A vast number of middle class jobs have either been replaced by technology (secretaries, admin staff etc) or out sourced by Globalisation. The remaining white colour workers are seeing a steady fall in living standards relative to the generation before (pensions, home ownership, purchasing power). Most middle class children today will not be as well off as their parents.

What about the vast service based industry that has largely replaced manufacturing in the last 50 years? You are obviously living in a different country to me. I just haven’t seen this vast number of middle class jobs disappearing. It might not be growing right this very second, but if you look back over the last few decades it certainly has. If any jobs are disappearing it’s the traditional blue collar ones.

I when TVs came out they were high value luxury goods. Now, having a flat screen telly is nothing, it’s just what everyday pepole own. So are living standards higher or not?

They are absolutely higher for the average Joe, no doubt about it. I presume you have an indoor toilet right?