Nicolai UK, Nicolai warranty experience, read on..

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Nicolai UK, Nicolai warranty experience, read on..

152 posts & 63 voices | Started 6 months ago by soulwood | Latest reply from Scienceofficer

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soulwood - Member

Inspired by the previous post regarding BETD and Yeti, heres mine;

Bought a Helius CC direct from Nicolai UK in June 2010, built up and ridden half a dozen times in the peaks before a long illness in the winter restricted my use. Come Spring 2011 and it starts to develop an annoying brake drag that eventually manifests itself on off camber turns and really sounds unhealthy. Simon at Nicolai UK recommended that I take it to 18 Bikes, which I did in July 2011 and they establish the back end is not moving through its travel arc correctly, something is out of alignment but they cannot see what it is.

I am told to return it to Nicolai in Germany, should only be £50 I'm told by Nicolai UK, but thats without insurance...so £130 later its back in Germany in August 2011. A one line report and a photo of the right upper strut reveals it is slightly bent inwards. £350 to replace, £130 to repair.

Several weeks of e-mail exchanges follow with Nicolai UK as I have absolutely no idea how the back end of my Nicolai could be bent inwards without any obvious or visible sign of impact, the guys at 18 bikes are no dummies, they couldn't see it. I get fobbed off by Nicolai UK to speak to Nicolai in Germany direct.

Fast forward to now, November 2011, and the guys in Germany offer a compromise to me, £130 to replace the rear end. I accept as I have too many other things going on in my life right now to face a further battle over this.

Since I have been without my first ever FS, I have returned to my faithful Cotic Soul HT, and I will not be keeping the CC when it returns,(yes I'm still waiting for it) a nasty taste in my mouth over the way I have been treated, especially by Nicolai UK.

Sure there will be folk on here that will say "stuff breaks get over it" but how do you respond to damage on your bike that you have no idea how it happened and cannot even come to fathom how damage can be caused with no sign of impact? To top it all your questions concerning this are treated with contempt?

Its a shame as I really liked the Nicolai and the range.

Posted 6 months ago #
Sancho - Member

I dont know much about Nicolai, but it seems they are not being unreasonable based on their assumption you bent it.
Just remember you dont necessarily have to have crashed to bend something.
You are in a difficult situation as it would seem that after nearly a year of use the damage developed, so it would not appear to be a manufacturing fault, or a crack which would suggest a defect on manufacture, so in UK law you wuold have to prove that it is a fault that was there from new. Which I dont know how you would do.

You may not have any idea how you damaged it, but it appears you damaged it.
so you may have to accept the repair of the damaged part.

Posted 6 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

does sound like crush rather than impact caused it?

You say it's not been ridden much could it have been damaged in storage?

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Crush damage seems the obvious answer, except when it is in storage it is hung by the front wheel. I tried to ascertain what level of load would be required to deform the strut without leaving a visble impact mark (in my mind the only thing that could do this is being run over by a car in a RTC) but this was not answered and I was told to ask Germany. They didn't answer it either.

I haven't been trying to pull a fast one, if I stack a bike and its mangled, fair enough I'll pay to have it repaired. But in this case I bought two bikes from Nicolai UK (one for Mrs Soulwood) and as such I would have expected a "benefit of the doubt" to be applied rather than the "Its been hit pay up" response. I can't help but think that if I had bought a Trek or some other brand then they would have weighed up the customer service/satisfaction side first.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Oh and not take nearly 3 months to resolve it and not expect you to pay to send it to the manufacturers for them to inspect as well.

Posted 6 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

I agree, you should have had to pay to ship to UK distributer, not Germany.

Posted 6 months ago #
takisawa2 - Member

What a bunch of rsoles.

Posted 6 months ago #
z1ppy - Member

Not exactly a glowing review of the warrenty support from the UK distributer or the german manufacturer for a supposedly prestige frame.
That ignoring the actual fault and just going by your description of the responses from both when try to make a claim. If you buy from a UK distributer why are "you" expected to send it back to Germany?

I thought these Nicolia were supposed to be bombproof.
Going by this and the "ex-demo" nicolia thread (what happened with that in the end?), it would seem very much not.

Be interested to see what Nicolia UK have to say on the matter...

Posted 6 months ago #
honourablegeorge - Member

Yeah - "take it to 18 bikes" and "send it back to Germany" aren't really acceptable responses from the UK Distributor.

Posted 6 months ago #
chakaping - Member

What reason did the UK importer give for making you deal directly with Germany and paying to post it there yourself?

Sounds a bit out of order I agree, but did you point out that you shouldn't have to?

Posted 6 months ago #
Sancho - Member

You are forgetting you are dealing with a German company.

they dont do benefit of the doubt etc.

They would analyse the damage, review the timeline and make a decision.
Seems like they arent being totally unfair, however, Id be more unhappy with whoever you bought it from, surely its their responsibility to follow this up as your warranty claim is with them not the manufacturer.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

I felt bad for 18 bikes, it was those guys that pointed me towards the Nicolai brand in the first place as they had just become dealers. I was limited to a frame that could match a 100mm fork as I couldn't afford a new fork as well. I went on the Nicolai UK website and saw the CC's for £1250 (usually at 2K with shock). I contacted them expecting that they would send it to 18 bikes for me to buy. But it was sold to me directly, and then I was told to take it to them to inspect for a possible warranty issue!

I usually start off any query with companies in a co-operative manner, and then if I have to get stroppy I can use such facts in the final case. However in this instance I just cannot be a***d to waste my time on this shower anymore.

Anyone interested in a large black & white Helius CC, due to arrive in the UK soon? Complete with a 4 yr warranty?!?

Posted 6 months ago #
STATO - Member

You dont need to cause damage to bend something, a mate crashed and bent his DMR frame (you could see the mis alignment between the headtube and the seattube). Looking over it there were no marks anywhere that we could attribute to the crash.

Posted 6 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

I'm not a lawyer but.....

If you mark the payment as being made under protest (i.e. you don't think it's right but you have to pay it to get things sorted) you could then go back through the small claims court to reclaim it if it genuinly was a warrnety issue?

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Sancho, I agree that the quoted repair costs are reasonable, something I said to Nicolai UK from the beginning. However the bike while in my possession never received an impact to the right strut and has never been crushed while in storage or transport with a load that I would consider would have to be substantial to deform it. My question was could the tubing be at fault? Just because it didn't fail catastrophically on day one of riding it doesn't rule it out. Simon at Nicolai even admitted that he had never seen such an issue with any of the frames he had sold, but still refused to accept that it may be faulty!

Posted 6 months ago #
Sancho - Member

Problem for you Soulwood is that for you to get a warranty replacement you would have to prove the fault.

Which is going to be difficult and may be very time consuming and expensive in itself.
In the eyes of Nicolai, you had the frame for a reasonable period of time before the problem arose, so to them it would not have been a manufacturing defect, so again it might be possible to prove but at what cost.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Sancho, fully aware of these facts, and also aware of the fact that Nicolai UK have used this knowledge to their (short term) benefit. I for one would not recommend the customer service from Nicolai UK.

Posted 6 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

you had the frame for a reasonable period of time before the problem arose, so to them it would not have been a manufacturing defect

This!

If it was wrong from new, then it should not have taken over a year for you to notice it. Metal tubes don't just bend, either it was defective from new, or something has happened to it since.

Whats happened to it in that year, only you know, and its more than reasonable for Nicolai to put "we've never seen that before" "well, in the experience of our workshop guys, its been damaged" and "he's had it for over a year" together as 2 plus 2 plus 2 equalling six.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

The difficulty is in assessing bike usage in pure terms of how long you have owned it. How many people use their FS every day? every weekend? especially when you have family and work commitments? I estimated that I had ridden the Helius less than 10 times in the 12 months I owned it, due to factors mentioned above and an illness over the winter. I have a rigid 29er for commuting duties and for rides where the FS was "over biked" so the Helius didn't get used that much. But its just my word against theirs isn't it? It's for a business owner to weigh up whether they think its worth giving the benefit of the doubt to a (valued?)customer or to treat him like a child.

Posted 6 months ago #
honourablegeorge - Member

Zulu-Eleven - Member
If it was wrong from new, then it should not have taken over a year for you to notice it. Metal tubes don't just bend, either it was defective from new, or something has happened to it since.

Whats happened to it in that year, only you know, and its more than reasonable for Nicolai to put "we've never seen that before" "well, in the experience of our workshop guys, its been damaged" and "he's had it

I don't think Nicolai Germany's response is an unfair one. But the OP having to drag the frame around to a bike shop he didn't buy from, and send the frame to Germany isn't OK. Distributor should have taken care of all that.

Posted 6 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

No, I don't think how many times you've used it is an issue really, either it was damaged from new or it wasn't. I cannot see how an alloy tube is supposed to have warped of its own accord.

If it was, then it shouldnt have taken you a year to notice, the fact that it did, is your problem, not theirs, and they shouldnt have to give the benefit of the doubt if the delay was down to you rather than them.

But the OP having to drag the frame around to a bike shop he didn't buy from, and send the frame to Germany isn't OK. Distributor should have taken care of all that.

I got the impression they were reasonable in asking a dealer to take a look first, and clearly the dealer was very good and deserves kudos for being willing to take on the extra work despite having not made the sale - but in the end he did buy direct from Nicolai, and got a significantly reduced price in return... what the lord giveth, the lord taketh away.

I wouls mention, I've dealt with the guys at Nicolai UK myself, and found them to be professional and very keen to build and protect the brand, I'd be suprised if they had not considered things very carefully before refusing a warranty.

I'm trying to be impartial and sympathetic, but I'm in the trade workign for another company, and see a fair number of warranty claims where people are just being unreasonable in their expectations of what a company should do, where ultimatley, its down to the customers own incompetence. I see my own companies warranty cases, and we certianly very rarely refuse, and generally give the benefit of the doubt, but you have to draw a line somewhere, and frequently those people on the wrong side of that line shout very loudly about how hard done by they are.

somehow we see bikes as special, but if you had a TV for a year before taking it back saying the case was cracked from new, then you would be laughed at.

Posted 6 months ago #
honourablegeorge - Member

If I had a claim, whether a valid one or not, I'd expect to be able to send the frame to the distributor, and get a response one way or the other from them. If the claim is invalid, fair enough, I'll pay for a repair.

I would't be happy with being sent around to a shop, nor being hit with the cost of sending the frame to the manufacturer. It should be the distributor's call to make.

That said, if the distributor made the call and said it wasn't a valid claim, and the OP didn't accept that and demanded that it be investigated further, then that's possibly a different story.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Z11, thats a black and white answer to a matter of varying shades of grey. Mrs Soulwood received her Helius CC one week before she came down with mycoplasma pneumonia. One year on and she can manage a 30 min walk. So by your reasoning, if on her first ride it developed a fault then she's had it has she? Customer service is about dealing with people, not robots.

Posted 6 months ago #
honourablegeorge - Member

Sounds like it was a fun winter round your house, SW...

Posted 6 months ago #
flow - Member

Sounds like you should have bought an Orange to me.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

"but in the end he did buy direct from Nicolai, and got a significantly reduced price in return... what the lord giveth, the lord taketh away."

Ultimately is this the answer? Don't buy direct from Nicolai UK? What about any warranty issues stemming from purchases from dealers?

Posted 6 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

Yes, absolutley its about dealing with people.

but like anything, you have to draw a line between what is "reasonable" and "not reasonable" somewhere - I happen to think that in this case, it sounds like they have, and whilst I have every sympathy for Mrs Soulwoods situation healthwise, I cannot see that as being Nicolai's responsibility.

What about any warranty issues stemming from purchases from dealers?

Again, I don't see it as unreasonable asking you to pay for the return to the factory for inspection in a case where it was so far out of the ordinary by being a year old - I would consider it differently if it were a couple of weeks old, in which case a return to UK distributor would be a fair request.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Ultimately though this whole matter has been a learning experience. Recently watched Batman Begins "Why do we fall Master Wayne? To learn how to get up" I bought a frame that even without the shock was easily three times the cost a a Cotic Soul. I owned a Soul for 6 yrs without incident, and was for the most part my only bike. Did it develop an unusual deformation with no obvious sign of impact? No.

Did I really enjoy my biking to the power of 3 when I rode this bike? Occasionally yes. Was it worth it for the grief of this after less than a year? No.

Will I be returning to purchase 2K frames to pedal around the Peak district when a £500 HT is sufficient? I don't know.

Posted 6 months ago #
soulwood - Member

Z11, you are not STW version of Jeremy Paxman. You are a troll. Get back under your bridge.

Posted 6 months ago #
Gotama - Member

The problem here surely lies with Nicolai UK. I agree with Z11 re the damage and given that the evidence points to you bending it (whether you say so or not) then the deal for a new rear end sounds very reasonable. However since you bought the frame from Nicolai UK it should have been a case of return it to us and we'll sort it from here, not the option they offered which was very poor. If that is the case then you may as well just buy from Nicolai in Germany direct and the UK guys can all go find new jobs.

Posted 6 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

What - because someone who works in the industry (for another company) disagrees with you, and thinks you're being a bit unreasonable in what you expect from them, they're a troll?

Posted 6 months ago #
honourablegeorge - Member

Again, I don't see it as unreasonable asking you to pay for the return to the factory for inspection in a case where it was so far out of the ordinary by being a year old - I would consider it differently if it were a couple of weeks old, in which case a return to UK distributor would probably be a fair request.

Warranty on those bikes is five years. So whether it's returned after a few woeks or a year should make little difference.

Posted 6 months ago #
hora - Member

Gotama regardless why did the OP have to pay carriage costs?

Posted 6 months ago #
5lab - Member

could it be it was always bent, but only showed up once the bushings etc wore? I don't know whether that'd cause the symptoms as described?

Posted 6 months ago #
wrecker - Member

Just buy a Turner. Ask Hora about his experience with their CS.

Posted 6 months ago #