Hi,

I’m in a bit of a bind with a new bike purchase and would appreciate some guidance.

I’ve been riding about 2 years, using a Rockhopper Pro 2011 (100mm 26er). Typical rides are Ashton Court in Bristol, Cymcarn trails, FOD Verderers, Afan trails, occasional Bikepark Wales trip etc. It’s been a trusty steed but I’ve definitely felt underbiked at some of the above, especially disliking the being rattled around (feeling a lack of confidence too) on the final descents of Afan. I wanted more grip, more confidence and a bike to ‘grow into’. So, I recently decided to get a decent, all-round full-suss bike, capable of handling most train situations (red and blue), 27.5 to hopefully future proof with trends… decided on a Canyon Spectral Al in the end after days of research.

With waiting times being pushed back and back and geometry issues too (very short toptube), I began looking for another full suss option. With rave reviews for the Whyte 905 catching my eye and a local stockist having the bike, I got caught up in the idea of getting it. Despite being a hardtail, the reviews were so praising that I sort of blindly convinced myself it was the bike for me. I test rode it at Ashton Court (not the best testing ground admittedly), really enjoyed it. Compared to the rockhopper – Much more grip and confidence in turns, lovely fork, really responsive out of turns, i.e. charging on the pedals. Definitely smoother and more forgiving too, lovely riding position.

As I’d never ridden a full suss, I had an hour test on a Whyte 129s at Ashton Court, just to make sure I wasnt making a mistake getting the 905 hardtail. I didn’t particularly enjoy it. The reverb was broken, so I was on tip toes and unable to lower the post for descents. As a result it felt unstable and unweildy. Furthermore, I just didnt feel the suspension added much. Yes, it was lovely floating down from the small drop offs, but that was it really. However, as above, Ashton Court is relatively flat and smooth and an awful place to decide. Regardless, the 905 felt more fun from the time I had on it. review Comments stating it is as confidence inspiring as a full suss at the same price of 16kg (i,e, an enduro/downhill rig) only cemented that further!

So I go back to the shop and buy the 905.

A couple of rides later and I have a sinking, nagging feeling that I have made a massive mistake and should have just bought a full suss, or rather waited until 2015 to get a sorted 27.5 full suss. All over forums etc, posters and reviewers comment on a full suss’ superior grip in corners, the forgivingness of mistakes on descents (these are two really important factors for me). Yes the reviews for the 905 hardtail are rave…but it made me think ”are they rave only in relative terms, i.e. FOR A HARDTAIL, rather than COMPARED TO A FULL SUSS”. Reading comments like ”the front end is outrageously confident, leaving the back end to fend for itself” just doesn’t sit easy with me. I#m wary of getting injuries from messed up descents, from messed up landings from drop offs etc.

So this leaves me in the afformentioned mess. Bike UK will exchange the bike within 7 days of purchase (tomorrow is deadline), but 1. They don’t do store credit, so I can’t wait until Whyte’s 2015 bikes where hopefully they’ll release a trail full suss 27.5. 2. The only realistic alternative to the 905 is the Whyte 129s. My concerns with the latter are that it seems 29er ”trail” bikes are a dying platform, soon to be left for cross country mile eaters only. And secondly, I like a responsive and relatively lively ride. The T129 is supposed to be agile FOR A 29er, but is it going to be clunky compared to a 905 hardtail? Essentially I want a great all rounder, confidence inspiring but responsive and fun.

The alternative is too hang on to the 905, accept that while it may bounce around a bit on the descents, appreciate that it will still be waaay more confident than my rockhopper and if anything will be a better platform to hone skills on.

So…if you were in my position, which route would you take? All things being equal (price included), is there actually any real advantage of the 905 for trail riding descents over a decent full suss, or have I made a massive mistake?

Sorry for the rant.

Hardtails are only ridden by UK weirdos with beards and XC racers.

have you ridden it? if so how can you take it back?

They bizarrely allow an exchange within 7 days, presuming there isnt significant damage.

As for T129 being only viable alternative as I see it – the shop only stock Whyte and Orange. Orange 5’s are massively overpriced and the Whyte G150 seems way overbiked for general trail use, or is that a realistic option? Budget is £2.5k…

Me thinks you may be overthinking this, and if I may be so bold, in a way that i tend to if ive committed more cash to something than im comfortable with. You bought after a test ride, you bought the one you liked best. You need not consider anything further, if its right for you its right. If it helps, (IMO) I think 29er HTs are so good at what they do that I’d question the need for FS. Not something I’d be so quick to say about 26ers.

If you want a FS bike then take the HT back and get one, or you are always going to be thinking “what if”. Don’t they have any other makes you could go for in a FS?

Cube and Ghost are both very well specced for the money, and Kona make some nice lower end FS bikes in 27.5″.

There are no really bad bikes in the £2-3,000 category.

As for my own experience, l started back mountain biking last year with a Cube HT. I replaced it after a few months with a Kona FS and have never looked back tbh.

Essentially I want a great all rounder, confidence inspiring but responsive and fun.

Forget the value for money bit, that’s gone now.

Does that description match the whyte you have?
Does it match the orange, regardless of the spec?
Does it actually match any bike they sell?

If so go ride a few.

I’d probably go for the orange tbh. You are going to upgrade bits anyway over time.

Sounds that despite buying a good bike its not what you want, in that you believe a FS is the ‘right thing’. Given that you can return it I’d second the Orange as a very forgiving and confidence inspiring ride. Sure its not the best VFM, but its there and now !

Rather than look for a bike to solve the issues you are having (you mention confidence), I think a skills course would be a wise thing for you to do.

You don’t need an amazing bike to feel confidence on red and blue trails. You need to learn to ride.

Seems a bit of buyers remorse to me.

Out of interest, if you were spending quite a chunk of cash, why only demo one brand?

Sounds to me you really don’t know what you want.
I can’t offer an opinion, I know I wouldn’t want a whyte though.

A couple of points.

1 Ashton isn’t really full Sus terrain. I’m not surprised a hartal felt better there especially if you only had a short ride.

2 I wouldn’t worry about wheel size. Judge each bike on b it’s own merits. Spares for all the wheel sides will be around for longer than the bike will last.

I think if you are asking the question on a forum you really know what you want and you are just looking for others to justify your decision. Do what feels right for you, I think you already know.

27.5, not 29, must read more carefully. I’m not so sure anymore – take it back and try more/again.

Keep the 905 and look around for a nice sale 27.5 full suss too if your budget allows at 2-2.5k. Always good to have a “spare” bike as a chuckabout and the Whyte 905 is the same geo as the Whyte 19 which should make it a very nice ride.

You say you’re worried about feeling under-biked in places like Afan; I think the important question is for how much of your normal riding, will you feel under-biked? If Ashton Court is your usual trails and you enjoyed the bike there, how much does it matter that it’s not the perfect bike for an occasional trip elsewhere? It will still be more capable than your existing bike.

Is there a reason why you couldn’t hang on to it for a bit, and if you feel you really want a FS transplant the parts onto an FS frame? I don’t think 29er trail bikes are going anywhere yet.

Hardtails are only ridden by UK weirdos with beards and XC racers.

Thanks for that.

Underbiked at Afan.
Lolcanos.

the Whyte G150 seems way overbiked for general trail use, or is that a realistic option? Budget is £2.5k…

150mm is the suspension choice of most of my riding chums. Sure the climbs can be a bit more challenging (for me at least as I’m a bit chubbby) but they are seriously confidence inspiring whilst attacking the downhills, especially when the going gets rocky.

Could you keep the rockhopper for the gentler trails and run two bikes?

Ignore the reviews online and in mags. When you ride the bike do you feel more confident? If the answer is yes then you’ve got yourself a great bike. If the answer is no, then you have two choices. Take it back and get something else or stick with it and ride it until you gain confidence. There are no magic bikes that will transform you into a confident rider. That only comes with practice and tbh, almost any* bike will do.

* I realise than the majority on here will disagree with this statement. Doesn’t mean it’s incorrect 😀

29er HTs are so good at what they do that I’d question the need for FS.

Oh my. Just when I thought the big wheel hyperbole had gone as far as it could, daveh lifts it to a whole new level. Chapeau sir!

Don’t over-think the bike or your riding. If you liked the 905 on testing just ride that and number 1 – enjoy it! Full suss isn’t everything, a mate of mine rides everything we do in the Peaks on his hardtail and loves it.

I#m wary of getting injuries from messed up descents, from messed up landings from drop offs etc.

Relying on the bike to keep you from falling off is going to result in a more severe injury.

My view is if you’re doing it on your hardtail, you’re doing it right. You’ll be kept at slower speeds, so when does go wrong whilst you’re learning, it’ll hopefully less severe.

Learning stuff is easiser on a hardtail too for upteen reasons, most important IMO is feedback. Take grip, grip is about weight distribution to correctly load your tyres, on a hardtail you can feel it, manipulate it more easily. On a full sus, the communication does get lost, things become vague, and you’re not quite sure if you’ve weighted correctly or the suspension maintaining wheel contact with the ground has compensated for poor weight distribution. Then you have jumps and drops, you can sense a lot more easily what is going on and understand what is happening. A full sus will compensate your landings for a while, give you a false sense of security and lead you onto something that could be out of your depth.

Starting to smell a troll….. 🙂

Stop reading about bikes and just go and ride the Whyte.

Whilst I agree with many here that in terms of skills, staying with a hardtail is best, mtbing is not some puritanical religion where deviance from the ways of the high priest hood will earn you a painful death and an eternity in purgatory.

Go and get the full suss and go and have some fun, but don’t come whining when Aston Court is all of a sudden boring.

Thanks for all the replies. I agree I’m probably overthinking it. The 905 was much, much more fun and confidence inspiring than the rockhopper. The real testing ground will be Wales of course.

As a relative newbie who’s ridden afan a few times on a hard tail, it will be fine, there’s nothing there that a decent hard tail won’t be more than capable on. When I demod a full sus there it wasn’t easier I just had to be going faster to scare myself!

Get it exchanged and LOOK at what they can get you/have in 26 (oh no shock!) or 650b full sus options.

Underbiked at Afan.
Lolcanos.

Not been to Afan, but is anyone ever underbiked at a trail centre (barring DH/bike parks)?

I think my comments about afan were a bit misleading. Don’t get me wrong, both the rockhopper and I coped with the wall descents fine and enjoyed it. It was more that at times I was yearning for more support, especially up front from the fork, and a smoother ride.

I think the sensible thing is to go for a blast round there today (got day off work) and see how fun the 905 makes it. If I’m left thinking it was too rough to be fun etc, then I’ll go exchange (pending no damage to bike!!).

I#m wary of getting injuries from messed up descents, from messed up landings from drop offs etc.

Just bear in mind that you will undoubtedly get yourself into more trouble with a full-sus, not less 😉

Stick don’t twist.
I’ve got a 4+K carbon full sus and steel hard tail and ride the HT more often.
Get some big volume tyres for when you go to the areas you think you need a full sus. Plenty of folk crash and injure themselves on full sus bikes.
Better to want what you’ve got than get what you want, as my nan used to say.
A lower spec Orange will feel just that.
You certainly won’t miss the servicing.

Jesus wept OP, you really don’t know WHAT you want. Buy secondhand until you do know.

Ha.

So I took the 905 hardtail to Afan the other day and did the Wall trail again. I was fully expecting to love it (after a very positive Ashton Court experience) – as it was fun on my Rockhopper previously, so could only be much more so on the 905. To be honest, it didn’t wow me at all. Yes a lot will come down to very average ability on the bike, but the pedal strikes were infuriating. The bottom bracket is so ridiculously low, that even the smallest rock causes clipping. I actually rode the trail better, with far better technique using my rockhopper previously, purely because I could weight the outside pedal/lean bike better on turns, without constant fear of the outside pedal clipping a rock or undulation. The same was true on climbs, having to avoid pedalling on all but the flattest surface underneath, or at least being ultra-careful.

Most telling however, it was the descents that left me wishing I just bought a full suss – firstly because the 905, although different, wasn’t THAT different to my rockhopper in terms of trail feedback/handling/fun and secondly because I would have loved a bit more grip, support and comfort while descending. In other words, I decided the best course of action is going to be to keep the Rockhopper for quick blasts around Ashton Court and larking around and get a separate full suss for bigger trips. Rockhopper has a flexy 100mm fork, narrow bars and a steep head angle, so isn’t ideal, but it will do for milder trails, it’s also nippy as heck.

So…while Bike UK told me previously I could only do a straight swap to another bike, when I went in yesterday, they agreed to give me a full credit note, with no deduction for the numerous scratches, advising I could wait until 2015 bikes released if I so wish. In addition they can also get more brands in than previously thought: –

Marin
Saracen
Orange
Whyte

Very relieved and chuffed, and lesson learnt to demo more in future!

Any of the above brands worth exploring for 2014? Marin Mount vision maybe? Or better to wait until 2015 models from all of the above?

if you’re getting pedal strikes on a hard tail you need to adjust your technique as it’ll be worse with a full sus bike once you start compressing the suspension a bit.

Looks like you got a result on the exchange thing though!

“purely because I could weight the outside pedal/lean bike better on turns, without constant fear of the outside pedal clipping a rock or undulation”

How on earth are you grounding the outside peddle while leaning the bike in a turn – that doesn’t make sense.

You will get more pedal strikes more with a full suss

Are you making any attempt at all to avoid these obstacles?

if you’re getting pedal strikes on a hard tail you need to adjust your technique as it’ll be worse with a full sus

^ wwaswas speaks the truth.

Also, what’s wrong with a 29er trail bike? new bikes being 27.5 doesn’t make a perfectly fine bike suddenly crap?

I would try to have a proper ride on the T129 and the G150.

this thread is basically just a FS vs HT debate in disguise so there is no correct answer, just personal opinion. For me personally I prefer FS in just about every situation (I also have a rigid 29er and until last year a 26″ HT). Yes a HT is all you need most places, so is a unicycle if by need you mean be able to make it around. For me though I have more fun on a FS and given that’s why I’m riding in the first place I couldn’t care less if someone thinks I’m overbiked some places.

Modern full suss bikes are getting pretty low these days to improved cornering etc, so you’ll get a fair few pedal strikes if you’re not careful.

As others have said, I think you’ll get yourself in more trouble with a bouncy bike as a confidence booster because you’re likely to take more risks / ride a bit faster.

Good result on the exchange though.