So I recently bought a new Lapierre Zesty 150mm travel bike, 27.5″ wheel compared to my old Trek Fuel with 26″.

Now I’ve been biking in Scotland for 15 years, trips to the Alps etc, so fairly experienced I’d say. However, with this new bike, I keep getting the sensation the bike is stopping dead, sometimes resulting in an over the bars trip. I’ve gone over 4 times in the last 3 months, before that probably once a year if that.

Both bikes had dropper seats, so quite accustomed to getting my weight right back. I thought it was an issue with my Pike and have since fitted tokens, but that’s not resolved the issue, although at least I’m not bottoming out the fork now.

So any suggestions? My riding technique hasn’t changed. With a slacker head angle, 27.5″ wheels, wider bars and shorter stem, this shouldn’t be happening….

Not sure what to do, but it’s taken the shine off the new bike! 🙁 🙁 🙁

Graeme

Leave the front brake alone.

Shorter TT than the old bike or longer?

Get some training.

Leave the front brake alone.

Or maybe just don’t tug so hard.

Front fork set up? Diving when braking?

How are your brake levers set up? Too far pointing down and that can help send you over the bars.

Or maybe just don’t tug so hard.

No need to accuse him of being a w4nker.

Fit smaller rotors?

Adjust your shock/is it working right?

Leave the front brake alone? Eh.

If the head angle is slacker then presumably you need to get more weight over the front to weight the front wheel properly. Maybe it is just taking a while to get the balance right.

Ride faster

Stop putting your “weight right back”

Face it, there’s about 23,419 different possible reasons for this. As no one here can see what you’re it’s all purely guess-work

Are you actually going OTB or just washing out in corners?

It sounds like the new bike is too small for you?

Not enough air in forks, more low speed compression?

As above, under what circumstances?

Need more information as to what is actually happening. Is it just riding along?
Is it going off drops and the front stalling?
Under Heavy braking?
Is the front just grabbing and stopping?
What are you doing when this happens?

Face it, there’s about 23,419 different possible reasons for this. As no one here can see what you’re it’s all purely guess-work

About sums it up, get someone to watch you. See what you are actually doing.

“and shorter stem” I lack your level of gnar but I set up one bike with a shorter stem (because it was in spares box and matched the bars) and hated it – felt all wrong – swopped stem and loved it

Firmer forks….it’s interesting reading pro DH-ers bike setups, most of them run virtually no sag up front!….on STW it seems to be in vogue to run 30% sag and use all the travel on a trail centre bimble.

Easy on that front brake….on a motorbike on tarmac then yes, hard on the front, dig the tyre into the track/road and get that weight transfer forward….on a MTB?….no.
Use both front and rear coming into a corner but be prepared to ease off either one as you feel traction slipping….if the front is sliding or locking come off the front brake, a rolling wheel always has more grip than one with braking forces on it….ditto the rear, if you’re skidding in with the rear locked back it off a bit.
You should still be able to use your front brake on a DH course but it takes care, don’t just grab a handful….as although interestingly last year when Minnaar won another WC race he admitted to being on the back brake most of the way down which is how most of us rode when we were kids!….was funny to here a pro doing it too though.

Get down/low on the bike…. I’m not a fan of this current trend of sizing up massively, I still ride a 16-inch HT in DH races, by all accounts it’s too small for me….nonsense, never been OTB on it….i run a short stem and wide bars and drop the seat post virtually all the way down into the seat tube, it allows me to hunker down in the bike so I’m almost laying on the top tube!….no chance of going OTB in that position….bike size is a red herring, it’s what position you can get into that counts, for some that will be large but for others (like me) it can be a small frame.

Does your new bike have Shimano brakes?….almost cringed typing that as it’s another STW cliche that these brakes are ‘grabby’…..but if we’re problem solving here that could be an issue I suppose.

Run more sag out back?….if you’re being pitched over the front WTF is going on with your rear suspension?…if it’s too firm for the front that could be a problem, I know some systems like DW-link setups favour a softer rear than front otherwise the bike handles funny.

And I’m done, no expert here….average weekend warrior that rides both FS and HT and does a fair few uplift days, some of the above may be worth a try though.

Front brake could be snatching however I strongly suspect its 100% you. I’ve no doubt if you switched bikes with a mate he wouldn”t be going otb. You’ve freaked yourself out and a mental problem now means your technique has gone to pot. When I first started (on a £300 bike with v-brakes and 80mm forks) I kept going otb on steeper more difficult terrain on Nirvana (LBS) shop rides. One bloke jist watched me, then rode my bike effortlessly down a steep chute and said FFS leave the front brake alone, you are yanking it on full when you panic. Now 10 years later I can feather the front brake no problem and thats not just because fhey are decent Hope”s

Good luck and most importantly don’t give up

Another possibility is that the rear end is coming up faster than the front from compression.
If that’s a possibility, the solution would be to reduce rebound damping on forks. Increase rebound damping on rear.

As others have said though, we need more info. The situation above would happen on landings and some take-offs where compression is happening on the ‘ramp’.

Other suggestions above cover different scenarios.

As already pointed out. It sounds like the bikes reach is too short for you. I used to get this on my SC Butcher. Going 20mm longer on the stem made a big difference.

Newer, slacker, longer bikes have quite different handling characteristics to their elderly stable mates. IME they’re smoother and more stable at speed, but less forgiving at slower speeds. Think about it, wide bars, short stems and slack angles brought the cockpit back toward the rider, longer TTs have now offset this to some extent, but dependent upon the combination, more of your weight could be forward. Also slack angles means there’s a more noticeable shrink in wheelbase under heavy compression thereby moving more of your weight toward the pivot point of you front axle under a dead stop situation. Is it possible that your running too high a pressure in the front tyre, causing the tyre to stop, rather than squidgy and roll over? This would exacerbate the above load transfer. I found when moving from 2.2 26″ 19mm rims to 2.35″ 650b 30mm rings That I had to drop almost 8psi from what I was used to to get the right feel.

Interestingly I’ve just got a new bike and experienced the same thing. OTB on an obstacle I normally don’t think about. I will be tweaking the settings on the forks and shock first. I think it’s a combination of a different frame putting me in a different position as well as different suspension. Try experimenting with all the adjustables – suspension, bar/lever position and even moving your cleats forward/backwards.

Too many variables to be at all sure but my best guesses are either the front washing out due to too rearward a body position or the front packing down and the rear bouncing up due to rebound too slow on the fork and too fast on the shock.

My first thoughts going on the limited information would be bike too small/front end too low/forks too soft but not necessarily in that order.

Thanks to those posting constructive comments above, I’ll continue to play with the settings and improve the setup.

I’m going to remove my tokens and up the fork pressure, probably running too low giving more initial travel causing the front end to dive too quickly resulting in my weight being transferred too quickly. Will also reduce my rear shox pressure as I never get through this.

With regards to the long stems suggestions, would this not make it worse, meaning more weight over the front wheels?

As said it could be anything and without seeing you ride it’s impossible to tell. I wouldn’t go changing the bike too much as that’s not why it’s happening. You probably rode your old bike quite a bit and just need to get used to the new one (they look like different styles of bikes from a quick google). Some people take a while to get comfortable on a different bike (hence so many selling a bike so soon after buying it and having a list of bikes they ‘didn’t get on with’). Also, riding for 15 years doesn’t make you competent, again there’s loads of folk who’ve ridden that long or longer and still don’t have the basics* dialled.

* I appreciate everyone has a different take on what the basics are, but as an example… i’m amazed how many folk on here can’t jump a bike (even some on this thread giving advice). For me things like being comfortable in the air on a mtb is a basic skill.

On the plus side, the more you go OTB the better you get at it, and can anticipate when it’s about to happen. Again i see being able to crash properly as a basic mtb skill.

As already pointed out. It sounds like the bikes reach is too short for you.

<sigh> Is this what it’s come too now? People need bikes with 30″ top tubes so they can plonk themselves down in the middle and just move their arms a little like playing X-box slouched in an armchair?

Stevet1 – Member

As already pointed out. It sounds like the bikes reach is too short for you.

<sigh> Is this what it’s come too now? People need bikes with 30″ top tubes so they can plonk themselves down in the middle and just move their arms a little like playing X-box slouched in an armchair? Yes, that’s right. Watch videos of all the downhillers on long bikes and you’ll see that they hardly do anything – no body English at all.
Oh

I had an issue with a pair of old coil forks once. The spring just wasn’t right for my weight, it used to dive under braking and bumps and pitch me over the front occasionally. Couldn’t get the right spring so bought an air fork, ran the right pressures, and stopped going OTB.

A longer stem wouldn’t compensate for too short a top tube, the front wheel would still be in the same position.

A friend of mine who competed in DH World cups at his peak had problems with OTBs which he remedied by going up a frame size.

I’m hugely out of touch with mtb geometry but are Lappieres not shorter and taller than average?

.it’s interesting reading pro DH-ers bike setups, most of them run virtually no sag up front!….on STW it seems to be in vogue to run 30% sag and use all the travel on a trail centre bimble

I think they may be getting a little bit more air and therefore impact than the average STW er

I’ll repeat something I said earlier

get someone to watch you. See what you are actually doing.

with so many possible solutions it’s hard to pick if the bike it too short/long suspension too hard/soft or if it’s just you or the bike…

Ive had a similar problem. Going from a five with offset bushes and a soft 140mm fork ive found that my liteville with 150mm pike was having me over the front. Not nice. (however it did take a year of tuning to get he five suspension where I liked it)

Ive played about over the last month and so far the thing that’s working is Ive dropped the pressure in the front to 25% sag from 20% and then upped the low speed compression. (I was running non initially)

on the rear ive upped the compression 1 click and the rebound about 3 clicks from slow.

The thing here is only play with one end first. If you think its diving then start at the fork. However mine was like it was pitching me over the front so the rear was the first port of call. Its not perfect but you can then work from there. Bikes ride differently as well so it will take time to get the best from it. In my example the five I just pointed it downhill and it sorted its self out. this one I need to pick a line more carefully.

is your fork suffering from brake dive? you’ll need to adjust the compression to counter this
is your top tube shorter than your old frame? trek frames had a longer top tube IIRC
is your stem length correct…it may be placing your body weight over the front of the bike in the wrong location
maybe it the fact that your brakes on the new bike actually work…i.e. did your old bike have some useless avids
check you brake lever position and able on the bars…sitting on the bike with your hands on the bars, you should be able to place your index finger on top of the brake lever…your finder should then be in perfect line with your forearm.
if your new bike has hope brakes or shimano xt and above then you need to adjust the bite point of the brake and try to increase the modulation

double post

Still think it’s a fork issue, front is diving too much.

So going to watch a few setup videos tonight to help me get my fork set just right. Will keep a log of my settings for each ride and try to work out a good setup.

I’ve played with the rebound, but not the compression, I thought this dial was purely to lockout the Fork, so this is always fully open, so my own ignorance isn’t helping. It’s a RC Pike, not a RCT3, but that shouldn’t matter??

I’ve played with the rebound, but not the compression, I thought this dial was purely to lockout the Fork, so this is always fully open

I’m no suspension guru but I think you may have gotten to the bottom of the problem

Possibly your front end might be lower than you are used to . Have you tried , or are you able to raise the stem , has the bike come out of the shop with the stem inverted to give a negative rise , does it have flat bars , if so try some risers . Small changes can make a massive difference to how the bike rides .