I work as “2nd in command” in small branch of a retail business (7 branches, all bigger than mine). Other branches have 2 positions senior to mine between mine and manager. Mine doesn’t due to its lower turnover (this is defined! less staff also).

I am being sent on a training course for those in the position 2 above mine*, I have had loads of manager absences to deal with, and earn ~66% of the manager but only 14% more than junior staff.

Any tips on how to argue for more money? They will say there’s no budget, but IMO the role is underpaid as it involves work done by senior staff (in other branches, testimony*)

Just think of it as a charity and do it for the love, you rapacious capitalist bastard.

😉

Ask them what their best wage is?

I think todays motto is “ask but don’t expect”.

Wait until you have done the training course then ask for a suitable pay rise as you are now trained to as well as performing at a higher level. If they agree then great, mission accomplished.

They might say no however, or they might offer you less than you would like. If this is case then ask them what you need to do to get that promotion and timescales for doing so.

If no joy after this then you need to consider your options.

The best way to get more money is buy showing them how much more money you making them.

1. Have a number in mind before you go in, be realistic compared to the market and not what other people in the company are earning, they may well be over paid.
2. Have supporting evidence – in addition to my job description I do a, b, c, d e and these bring X £ to your company, present your worth.
3. Give them ideas, I think we could save money by, increase margin because etc

Sadly the days of pay rises due to time served, loyalty etc are gone in general so sell yourself and give them the reasons they need to retain you

Published job descriptions?
Compare with the others, work out what you do that is on theirs and what isn’t. Put a reasoned case together, sit down and go through it all or find another job.

How replaceable are you? Be honest. Very few people are indispensable.

The only way I have manage to negotiate (not argue) a rise outside of promotion or the usual annual % was for retention when I had an offer from another employer.

If you take that approach though you have to be prepared to walk and take the other job.

The facts hey are investing in you by sending you on a course means they must value you though, so you might be in with a chance.

Don’t worry Al, I’ll put a good word in for you next time Head Office ring me with a purchase order for a new pawl spring or a toggle chain! That pay rise is virtually nailed on now!!

Very few people are indispensable.

There is a test for being indispensable, put your finger in a glass of water then remove it, if the water didn’t move back to fill the space you are indispensable.

The last place I worked in the UK replaced all bar one of the directors at once. Everything kept going.

The attitude these days seems to be, if you haven’t resigned then you must be happy with the package you’ve got. If you want more money then move on..

The attitude these days seems to be, if you haven’t resigned then you must be happy with the package you’ve got. If you want more money then move on..

Think you’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

I’ve got a meeting tomorrow to discuss my pay after a recent company pay review resulted in me & a few others getting a letter which basically said I’m overpaid for my position which didn’t go down too well 😆

To be honest unless my resignation is sat on somebody’s desk I cant see any real chance of an increase. Currently looking at moving from motorsport to aerospace as the wages are a lot higher & before i become part of the furniture in my current job.

the female half of a couple i know recently got a promotion and as a result an increased salary.

her fella went to his chauvinistic boss and told him that despite enjoying his job, his bigget problem was that his GF was now earning more than him and it hurt.

he now earns 500€pa more than his GF.

My son got a 20% pay rise recently just by kicking off & stamping his feet, everyone else only got about a 5% rise.
Mind you, he’d spent ages teaching his managers how to use a new warehouse system.

Whilst it’s always nice to hear about someone who gets a raise without having to force the issue,but my personal experience is that it won’t happen unless you have another job to go to, and even then it’s not a given.

This post is timely as I have 2 job offers on the table both on much better money. One of which expires today, Wednesday. A third interview is inbound, and I am waiting for a response from my employer, whom I asked for a raise 7 weeks ago. I’m supposed to getting a decision today. Resignation letter is in my pocket ready to go..

The rack?

Aye, brinksmanship is the way forward.

I’m at that position at my work. Being asked to do more and more higher level things, so want to start a new team and divest myself of some of the responsibilities of my current position. It’s impossible to do it all – many meetings with managers with that as the subject.

Have a meeting with the bosses about reshaping how our team works. If it doesn’t come out the way I want I hand in my notice as my position is currently untenable. Quite lucky that I have two part time jobs, each of which will support me so I can walk away without having anything else to go to.

We had a recent reshuffle and I was taken aside and told not to worry as they have realised how indispensable due to my technical knowledge (not a lot of that in a charity). So, if I don’t get my way it will be interesting to see what a resignation letter gets me.

Cant you just bully your way to more money?

“Oi Rupert, giz some more cash”

So now you want more biscuits?! You need to attract more STW’ers in to the shop if that’s the case

How much time at this level? Need to spend time proving yourself – maybe you have. Thing is you’ll be in a great position to move into a more senior role soon, play the long game.

Depending on the HR and size of the company you may have a formal system of pay grades and job evaluation in place. If you could find this out then you would have something to go with.

If you simply go in asking for more money then what reason do they have to give you more? Simply having done a training course is not reason for a pay rise unless you can demostrate you are worth more to the company.

I think that the moajority of companies pay you the minimum they can get away with and still have you do the job satisfactorily and not walk. the idea of value or worth rarely comes into it, market rates are more important.

There is a test for being indispensable, put your finger in a glass of water then remove it, if the water didn’t move back to fill the space you are indispensable.
The last place I worked in the UK replaced all bar one of the directors at once. Everything kept going.

My old man used to say that the cemetery is full of indispensable people and I think that’s pretty much bang on. I don’t think there’s a problem in asking for an increase (depending on market conditions, what your role is and how you’re performing) but if they say no, you need to decide how important that is.

To those advising brinkmanship, or the threat of resignation, why stay somewhere that won’t pay what you’re worth?

Who else is willing to pay what he’s worth?

and if the answer is nobody, is he really worth it

it’s almost like philosophy

I went into work today and asked for a pay rise,and my boss said yeah – I was astounded that he would be so understanding. Until he took out a gun, shot me in the knee, and gave me a benefits claim form. 😆

The most ruthless way of getting a pay rise (but very effective IME) is to get another job offer at the salary level you aspire to. Then put your cards on the table and say you’ve been offered £x which is too good to pass up, but you would really prefer to stay if they can match the offer. The acid test of course is whether or not someone else will offer you more.

You also have to be prepared to walk if necessary because your position might just become untenable if they call your bluff. This happened recently to one of my wife’s employees. He came in one day and demanded a pay rise (no specific reason given other than he felt “undervalued”). As it happens my wife was hoping he would leave anyway as he wasn’t very good at his job. So she turned down his demand for a pay rise on the grounds that he wasn’t putting the effort in to deserve it and he said okay in that case I’m going to leave. She said fine, close the door on your way out. Anyway he’s still there months later as the dumb shit didn’t even have another job to go to. His job is now untenable and his future at my wife’s firm is completely dead in the water. So that’s how not to do it anyway.

yeah just get a new job lined up. use it as leverage. win win.

could even just fabricate the new job.

Current situation at my work for new starts and apprentices is causing some concern amongst the shop floor.
This group are being employed on different contracts which can be up to £5k less than established old hands doing the same job, T&Cs are also less favourable. All in the name of cutting fixed costs in an attempt to become more competitive in a world marketplace.
Engineering apprentices were presented with their contracts recently and after all the usual payments were taken off are now worse off than on their previous contract!! (Apprentices are employed through a contractor till time served) chief engineer basically said accept or look for another job. They accepted but are away for medicals and interviews for other jobs this week @ Nissan & Grangemouth.
The rest of us are awaiting the outcome of working time negotiations taking place and expecting the worst for next year of possibly 2016 if orders don’t pick up and fixed costs can’t be reduced.
“Stand-in” payments have been reduced or removed over the past couple of years due to the degrading of some jobs and shop floor to next level pay structures not having the large differential they used to have. Manager jobs have been replaced by team leaders(doing all the paper work but also some manual work)
Everyone is expected to work harder and do a bit more to help the company survive. Currently 300+ employees and a good number of contractors.

Thanks most.

I don’t see myself there forever at all, and they probably know that, but I’d prefer to feel happy about being there while I am there. I doubt I’ll get a rise, but I want to do what I can for one. The role appears to be understated, I’ve had loads of manager absences in my 18 months there, and my experience has helped make it the most profitable branch (pro rata) in the business.

My manager is amenable to a conversation about it, I’ll let you know how it goes.

You also have to be prepared to walk if necessary because your position might just become untenable if they call your bluff.

Had a guy trying this recently – got a shock when I advised him to take the other job. Cue some fanatic back peddling.

Al – other branches have a role above yours ? Start pressing for a promotion to that role in another branch ? Which would be very good reason for a pay rise.