Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 43 total)
  • Needle bearings in shock eyelets instead of bushings?
  • ruscle
    Free Member

    Just going to order some and was wondering what peoples experiences were of them, do they last well and any noticeable difference?

    retro83
    Free Member

    Yep I had some enduro ones from Real World Cycles in the states. Really good, massive stiction reduction to the extent that I needed more damping on the shock.

    I never had any noticeable wear in a year of usage, where i had been getting through DU bushings about 1 every 2 months.

    I’m back on bushings on my new frame though, mainly because the shock eyelet on my shock (RP23) seems to be too small and the bearings feel notchy in use. I think RWC now ship their kits with an extra bearing to fit undersized eyelets better.

    nealy
    Free Member

    They’re only meant to be fitted to the eyelet that moves the most which you’ll be able to work out when you compress the rear. A needle bearing will tend to “notch” the race if it doesn’t rotate much.

    See here > http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/enduro-shock-eye-needle-bearing-kit-580885.html

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    stanley
    Full Member

    From an engineering point of view…….. they wouldn’t seem to be a great idea.
    Small amounts of rotation aren’t great for them, and needle rollers will fail very quickly if any muck gets in there; there is no room for the grit to hide!

    Bushes are the fitting for the job. Maybe try a higher spec bush. Also, replace the rubbish standard aluminium top-hat with a stainless one-piece job.

    TFT or BETD perhaps

    ruscle
    Free Member

    Cheers for the info lads, retro83 you can get them for fox shocks from BETD but they only have the shaft in 22mm length which fits one of my ends but I’m going to get another made locally to fit the extra 2mm I need. Also needed to purchase extra punch to fit but was only £6 from BETD.

    BETD needle bearing Linky

    Had the TFT ones fitted but don’t like them, I used to have the BETD ones which are good but thought I would try the needle bearings as can get replacements locally for the same cost as a bush.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    I’ve always been slightly surprised they don’t use Rose joints.

    ir_bandito
    Free Member

    I’ve always been slightly surprised they don’t use Rose joints

    Presumably enough flex in the frame to take out any bending across the pivot, combine with shock’s ability to take out torsion.
    Still, would make for stiffer frame/less shock wear.

    rootes1
    Full Member

    I’ve always been slightly surprised they don’t use Rose joints.

    Agree

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    IIRC the older spesh epics used to use something a bit like a rose joint for the seatstay-locationed shock.

    neninja
    Free Member

    DT Swiss use something like a Rose joint.

    rootes1
    Full Member

    yer this type of spherical joint

    Sealed

    Unsealed

    they are very robust

    dickie
    Free Member

    Fitted one to my Turner DW Flux – noticed no difference – save your money.

    monkeychild
    Free Member

    Get the poly ones from Kaesae’s ebay store. 2 for about £4 job done 🙂

    reedspeed
    Free Member

    Just going to order some and was wondering what peoples experiences were of them, do they last well and any noticeable difference?

    I would have thought a needle rooler would attract too much debris,especially if its lubed,& it will need to be,or can you get a sealed one ?,the DT SWISS idea looks good tho,like the rose joint, ceramics the way forward for less stiction,but would it be robust ehough,im not so sure, theres a reason why manufacturers use bushes,as clearly even on the top end bikes theyre still used! ..

    rootes1
    Full Member

    theres a reason why manufacturers use bushes,as clearly even on the top end bikes theyre still used! ..

    yep they are cheap.

    Speshpaul
    Full Member

    BETD hulu hoops DU bush replacements. Cheap Yes, good yes

    retro83
    Free Member

    ruscle – Member

    Cheers for the info lads, retro83 you can get them for fox shocks from BETD but they only have the shaft in 22mm length which fits one of my ends but I’m going to get another made locally to fit the extra 2mm I need.

    Thanks but i think you misunderstood/I didn’t explain well.
    I had an RP23 which it worked perfectly on. I then bought a new frame with an RP23 included and tried to fit the bearing.
    In the second RP23 it does not turn freely as the eyelet seems to be too small.

    What I was saying is that believe RWC/Enduro now include a smaller bearing in their kits to cover this eventuality.

    They also have rubber seals at the edges which i’m not sure the BETD ones do.

    See here for more info from Chris

    As an aside, has anybody tried IGUS or Rulon J polymer bushings? They’re meant to be very very good when used with thru-axle setup (i.e. not the Fox top hat setup). All the benefits of bushings, with low friction comparable to the bearings.

    LoCo
    Free Member

    IGUS bushings are pretty good, they’re what the team riders use and last better than the standard DU bushes, I’d be slightly suspicious of bushes just refered to as Polymer as not all brands are the same, cheap ones being false economy and no better or worse than standard DU’s. Only £1.50 each too, but are Igus ones 😉

    kaesae
    Free Member

    Not many shock companies actually run DU buhes these days loco, most run DP4’s, do you mind me asking how you tell the difference between the two?

    Retro what exactly is the difference between the shocks eyelet’s?

    Also the old epics 03/04 run spherical or rose joint bearings GE10c and GE15c
    The 05 onwards epics run GE15cK1 which is a custom size and a pain in the ass to get hold of cheaply!

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    Had a needle roller in the lower mount of my enduro, left it in the old shock as it wasn’t very well sealed and required more maintenance to keep clean and corrosion free. Went back to BETD Hula Hoops.

    LoCo
    Free Member

    Kaesae, Du bush is a generic term, is ‘eyelet bush’ more suitable for you? have I done something to upset you? 😕

    kaesae
    Free Member

    I normally refer riders over to J Tech suspension for bushes

    http://j-techsuspension.co.uk/pages/products/mount-kits.php

    That said you might be able to find them cheaper else where
    £13.99 per side supplied with 1x Igus JSI-0809-08 bush, are these the same inner bushes you sell LoCo?

    LoCo
    Free Member

    😆 Yes the Igus eyelet bushing are the same spec. Have a nice day kael 😉

    kaesae
    Free Member

    Kaesae, Du bush is a generic term, is ‘eyelet bush’ more suitable for you? have I done something to upset you?

    Hi Loco I thought that DU was a material that coats the inside of a steel bush and that DP4 was another material, DP4 last about twice as long as DU, so a DP4 bush will last half as long as a polimer one, or there about’s.

    It’s my understanding that DU material is grey in colour and that DP4 is red in terms of it’s lining, I might be wrong though 😀

    Always good to learn new stuff, if you could help me understand the situation more that would be great.

    Are your steel bushes red or grey?

    LoCo
    Free Member

    ‘Standard’ ‘eyelet bushings ( 😉 )’ are 08DP08 spec orange inner coating as per Fox/Mojo aftermarket spec. (they appear to be manufactured by a company called GGB, but haven’t looked into this.)
    ID on these is tighter than the grey internal material and the Polymer ones although all are 08–08 spec so 1/2 X 1/2″.
    I don’t fit anything but the Igus Polymer eyelet bushes now unless the shock has a specific ‘issue’
    I’m also looking at the HD/steel pin spacer kits atm, but so busy don’t have the time atm (just having a sit and coffee now, before anyone says anything!)

    sv
    Full Member

    Always good to learn new stuff, if you could help me understand the situation more that would be great

    😀

    So you are asking another supplier questions that you perhaps should already know?

    2x Polymer performance bushes.
    These bushes are made up of a vastly superior and longer lasting material to DU and even more durable than the DP4 bushes I sell.

    So can you confirm that your polymer bushings last longer than the metal bushings(with actual test results not just that you think they do)? Does your polymer have a trade name? Dark Star?

    LoCo
    Free Member

    Kaesae’s quote of 4 times longer than a DU is about right, from our experience from the team riders use racing 24 hr races, getting Guiness World records (I love being able to say that, I’ll put my willy away now 😯 ) and general stuff.
    The Du v DP4 I’m not sure the DP4s are that much better a bit but not sure how much.
    Right I have work to do so I’m going to turn the forum off !

    kaesae
    Free Member

    I’m having a curry 😀 very tasty

    I think the 08__08 is the size and the inner is the material part 08DU08 08DP08

    GGB is a manufacturer the first DU bushes I used about 3 years ago were from them. 08DU08

    The Betd bushes will outlast most others as they are tighter in terms of fitting than tha IGUS bushes, they are also a nice design.

    However you can get the Igus bushes cheaper, I would go with stainless steel reinfoced outer bushes and Igus inner bushes, then change them when they ware out.

    Also be aware that the cream coloured polymer bushes suffer from transfer if you try and use them with aluminium outer bushes, this will cause excelerated ware, the grey coloured igus bushes mentioned above don’t, but as loco pointed out they are a looser fitting bush.

    Better get back to work my grub is almost finished

    retro83
    Free Member

    Retro what exactly is the difference between the shocks eyelet’s?

    No idea, but it must be a tiny difference.
    I’ve only got cheapo ebay digital calipers and it’s a difficult place to measure anyway.

    kaesae
    Free Member

    LoCo – Member

    Kaesae’s quote of 4 times longer than a DU is about right, from our experience from the team riders use racing 24 hr races, getting Guiness World records (I love being able to say that, I’ll put my willy away now ) and general stuff.
    The Du v DP4 I’m not sure the DP4s are that much better a bit but not sure how much.
    Right I have work to do so I’m going to turn the forum off !

    LoCo you mentioned coffee not playing with yourself, I take it that’s an STW code 😯

    kaesae
    Free Member

    sv – Member

    Always good to learn new stuff, if you could help me understand the situation more that would be great

    So you are asking another supplier questions that you perhaps should already know?

    2x Polymer performance bushes.
    These bushes are made up of a vastly superior and longer lasting material to DU and even more durable than the DP4 bushes I sell.

    So can you confirm that your polymer bushings last longer than the metal bushings(with actual test results not just that you think they do)? Does your polymer have a trade name? Dark Star?

    Hello! SV

    Goodbye! SV

    LoCo
    Free Member

    😆 😯

    sv
    Full Member

    Hello! SV

    Goodbye! SV

    Thought it might be a chance for you to confirm the quality of your polymer bushing material. As per Loco’s post above:

    I’d be slightly suspicious of bushes just refered to as Polymer as not all brands are the same, cheap ones being false economy and no better or worse than standard DU’s.

    😉

    we use something called norglide at work

    kaesae
    Free Member

    WATCH OUT!!! thedevelopmentengineer those could be the cheap false economy ones.

    It’s not like we have ISO standards and other standards on stuff to ensure they are safe to use and of a certain quality.

    LoCo just so I can make sure I don’t by any of the cheapo ones, can you tell them apart from say the good quality ones you sell and also any names of shady companies selling them 😐 the Dastardly scoundrells!

    I feel safe in saying my bushes are at least as good quality as LoCo’s ones, then again maybe they’re the false economy ones 😆 the mind boggles!

    LoCo
    Free Member

    🙄

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    the mind boggles!

    indeed.

    sv
    Full Member

    then again maybe they’re the false economy ones

    Indeed.

    kaesae
    Free Member

    WOT? I’m trying to help out LoCo warn riders about the cheapo false economy bushes and also gain an insight into these bushes that I’ve never come across or even heard about.

    Let’s face it polymer bushes that last as long as DU ones 😯 , has anyone else any experience of those?

    Better go shit to do, stainless steel outer bushes with igus inner bushes, best bet for durability in relation too cost and performance 💡

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    you may be trying to help kaesae but I haven’ got a clue what you’re saying. It all starts out makign sense and then 😯 the smileys and random WARNING! 💡 WARNING! messages 😆 dilute it all. 😐

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 43 total)

The topic ‘Needle bearings in shock eyelets instead of bushings?’ is closed to new replies.