personally I’m waiting for the fake ‘some numpty nearly hit me on a round about’ thread !

On my commute I saw a rider without lights, outdoors gear on a mtb with rucksack and I cheerily suggested he should get some… the torrent of abuse as I passed and rode away was quite something. Some people. Sigh. My only reply was, your funeral my friend.

In honesty it can be tricky to see ‘us’ cyclists, theres a lot of light sources on most roads, other cars, street lamps, shop signs, house lights and god forbid, dazzling Xmas lights, its quite easy to miss us. The best you can do is have a good set of lights/reflectors and get on with it.

I might look like a prat to some with hi viz vest and ankle straps and two sets of lights but if I do get knocked over a hedge they can hopefully find my body before the foxes get it.

Have been caught out by dark without lights in the past, and while it smarts to get yelled at by a motorist I somehow knew to not let it happen again. In fact without lights I’d walk around islands and stop, and on dark roads would get off and wait on the verge/pavement when vehicles approached from behind. Don’t understand ninja cycling in the UK.

Malvern Rider – Member
I might look like a prat to some with hi viz vest and ankle straps and two sets of lights

Not at all. TBH, having had a near identical experience to the OP, I would think anyone objectively considering their own safety on a dark commute ought to do likewise.

Side-on, it is unbelievably difficult to spot cyclists on certain junctions and I’ve got perfect driving vision, a clean windscreen and decent reactions.

I am amazed how long some of the commuters I see, regularly without anything but a front and rear light are surviving. Without any other hi-viz or secondary illumination, on dark, twisty, narrow roads, it’s not inconceivable that the first indication their rear light has failed will be a vehicle punting them through the hedge.

I was cycling home the other night about 7,on a country lane with no streetlights,also a bit twisty and turny,with a long uphill section to finish it off.
I’m on my last legs,puffing away at about 5mph going round a left hand bend,when I see about 10 yards in front of me,some clown pushing a bike,all in black,no lights,no reflectors, nothing at all to help him be seen.
As I pass,I say”you want some lights on that mate”,his reply”nah mate,I never use them”.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s still in the roadside ditch now, I’ll have a check next time I ride up there.

Many, many moons ago, myself and some early 20s chums went to get a McDs post Friday pub (yes, we had a designated driver).

We were amazed to pass a severely weaving, drunk ninja cyclist on a rural Essex A road on the way back; so amazed in fact that we passed him and stopped several times just to see how far he was going.

One said chum was a proper local with family going back locally to the middle-ages, and he subsequently found out that said ninja did this ride regularly – several miles of unlit, rural unclassified and then A road – from a village boozer back to his home.

Unfortunately we also found out a few months later that he’d been knocked off and killed.

If you look you’ll see a cyclist, lights or not

I’d dispute that

Or add that you might spot them, but much later

The last time this happened to me was driving through a local village and I was really concentrating and looking down the road ahead. Suddenly a pair of feet appeared in front of me. They were the only non dark part of a pedestrian crossing. Not great drama as they had space to cross but had it been an A road with me doing say 50mph not 20mph and had he been a cyclist I really might not have had enough time to react

I find being in a car makes it much harder to spot these low contrast targets, again even when looking for them. Things like light from the car behind reflecting of the windscreen and and dash etc. don’t help

Just now, coming to the airport I was driving along 25mph or so on a right hand bend, looking at signs, lanes, surrounding traffic when a bloke standing in the road suddenly appeared dressed in full hi viz suit to my right. He was waiting to cross the road and was out of my way so no harm done. However the way in which he suddenly appeared just goes to show (me) how our eyes are a long way from infallible.

Saw a sparkler last week when I was riding home, I stopped behind a chuffing great lorry at some lights, this fella rode up the pavement and then onto the road, over the line and sat just in front of this lorry (no ASL).

He had No front light, black jacket and I could just about make out one blinky red LED on the seatstay, mostly obscured by his bloody pannier. Sets off when the lights change, creaks across the junction at a snails pace, and then… Goes back to riding on the sodding pavement having put himself at quite some risk of being squashed by a lorry for bugger all time saving…

It is amazing how different the view is from on a bike and inside a car. I use both. When on the bike I can see other road users perfectly clearly and there really is no need of lights in most situations on lit roads. As soon as there is a sheet of glass in the way people that can easily be seen disappear or at least need a good look to be seen. If you only use one form of transport it is easy to see how your opinion forms.

This is a big part of the problem in my opinion. Being on a bike and being inside a motor vehicle are two very different things. They offer completely different perspectives, from being hyper-aware of everything, to struggling just to see what’s in front of you. I dare say there are a lot of people out there who don’t drive, who just have no idea. And even for those that do, it’s easy to forget.

I’ve always said it’s not my experiences on the bike that make me fearful of riding on the roads, but my experiences in the car.

I would have killed the cyclist if it wasnt for mrshora shouting at me and my immediate wheel/car input. I pulled in further up the road got out and waited for the chap and apologised thoroughly. He said ‘why didnt you see me/Im lit up/hi viz etc’. **** commuting by bike.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/so-i-had-a-close-miss-last-night-with-a-cyclist

Looking at you tube videos on your pc, phone etc is not a substitute / fair measure of what people really would have seen with the external stimuli of being in a real world road situation. You also know there’s something hiding in there.

I tend to agree from experience that it is possible to spot an unlit cyclist in many if not all road circumstances BUT what is possible is not always what happens or what we can even expect to happen. As noted above you see someone with lights a lot sooner which means you can deal with them in a safer manner.

Bring variable driving standards, a mild headache, a big sneeze, a smudge on someone’s spectacles into the equation and it could all go so badly wrong for the absence of £10 worth of lights.

How many of those saying you can spot an unlit cyclist regardless of conditions would use that as an argument to defend driving a car with the lights off. And lit or unlit a car is a lot easier to see.

My kids have £10 of Oxford lights from Decathlon on their bikes for use at dusk and they are still young enough to be on the pavement. No excuses.

When I am driving I have to double my concentration when I see cyclists.

Don’t know why but I keep imagining cyclist skulls being crashed by my wheel when a gust of wind blow them off their bike with their heads right in front of my wheel.

… and I have seen skull(alive) being crashed by car wheel in front of my eyes before … live!

😯

Just been out on my bike in the dark and rain. I know it’s the sort or weather where I’d have to really concentrate to even see well lit bikes and judge a cars speed and width. I’d could easily make out all the unlit pedestrians, unlit parked cars, road features etc from my bike. Didn’t come across any unlit bikes but I can very confidently say I would have easily been able to see them. Basically being in a car massively restricts your ability to see those around you. Its a shame the onus falls onto the cyclists to make themselves visible when the problem is with the drivers but obviously common sense says we as cyclist should light ourselves up.

I know this has been done a thousand times but:
Intelligence/commonsense isn’t evenly distributed across the population, and neither is observational ability/willingness or even skill at driving/cycling. That’s why we lose around 1700 people a year and 20k+ are seriously injured on the roads. Some people can’t even manage to walk safely!

In the meantime – drive and cycle with your eyes open… do you want to end someone’s life?

There is. (I assume the winkie means you know this?)

Yep, I am aware there is a law about it 😀
I like those spoke reflectors you get from aldi now and again, I saw a guy with those on last week and they made him very visible, from the side granted but you can`t really see lights and reflectors from the side.

Yep spoke reflectors are a good idea, especially as the rotating reflection is very obviously a bike.

I also run Fibre Flares lights on the seat stays of my bike – they provide good visibility to the rear and sides.

(not my bike)

Oop no I’m not going to argue

It is amazing how different the view is from on a bike and inside a car. I use both. When on the bike I can see other road users perfectly clearly and there really is no need of lights in most situations on lit roads. As soon as there is a sheet of glass in the way people that can easily be seen disappear or at least need a good look to be seen. If you only use one form of transport it is easy to see how your opinion forms.

Agreed.

I nearly ran over another cyclist on Essex Road in Angel about 12 years ago. Damp Feb evening, I was on my bike but still nearly shunted him; he had long dark hair, was wearing a dark coat and riding a dark sit-up and beg. I thought back then “if I didn’t see you, what chance does a driver in a car with a rain-spattered windscreen have?”