My 9 year old was at a football camp with his 11 year old brother last week at their football club. Last week we couldn’t take them there on one day so they went by bike. After the camp finished they were coming out of the club which is in the middle of a forest in the middle of the city when one other cyclist coming along the track somehow didn’t see the nine year old coming out of the gate lost control of his bike while trying to avoid him and fell off. My two were quite shocked and the guy was shouting at them demanding they give him their home address which they did as they were quite scared. Today we got a letter demanding 150 Euros for a new pair of trousers and shirt which he says were ripped. I have tried to get an account of what happened from my two but it’s all a bit vague and from my side it seems to me knowing where it happened it’s quite and open patch of track with plenty of notice to see if someone is coming out of the football club grounds and I think this guy was simply traveling too fast to be able to react in time. He’s also claiming he’s hurt his hand too and is having medical treatment. So where do we stand legally?

Tell him to swivel to grow a pair and stop picking on kids.

Is the letter from a Legal Representative?

If NOT then tell him to ‘do-one’ 😀 would be my approach.

In simple terms he fell off, it doesn’t sound like your boys ran into him so he’s got no grounds.

Cheeky Bugger 🙄

10 years old is the age of criminal responsibility. Not sure about liability though.

Any independent witnesses?

150 Euros

A clue to where you are and what legal jurisdiction you are under might help.

10 years old is the age of criminal responsibility

In England and Wales maybe, but we don’t tend to use euros…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_infancy

My two were quite shocked and the guy was shouting at them demanding they give him their home address which they did as they were quite scared.

Nice guy.

Any independent witnesses?

None as far as I know.

Is the letter from a Legal Representative?
No, it’s from the chap himself and I haven’t seen it yet as still at work.

Sounds like he was going too fast and/or didn’t anticipate the potential hazard that is 2 children on bikes?

File under bin

I doubt anyone who does that is going to listen to reason so just react to whatever they do when you have to

I assume the absence of witnesses or what they say may be important

Yeah sorry I am in Germany but I can’t imagine the laws will be completely different to the UK what it being in the EU and all that.

I concur. Tell him tae” away an get yerself huntit! ”

Write back to him saying “I have no idea what you on about I don’t have any kids” Or “I’m sorry my kids weren’t there that day, do you have any witnesses to who this was?”

Probably best just to ignore him.

@crashtestmonkey.

Interesting link but my son hasn’t actually done anything criminal. I am not even sure if the laws of the road apply being this is a forest track supposedly blocked off for cars apart from deliveries to the club house.

Does the letter include the guy’s address? If it does I know where I’d be heading [/hunts for bombers]

alternatively…

he was minding his own business, having a nice ride – when two kids suddenly ran across his path, being a reasonable person he managed not to hit the kids but as a consequence crashed off his bike and ruined his riding clothes and was a bit upset, therefore lost his temper and demanded their addresses

if it was me – i’d still ignore the 150 euro demand but have a proper word with the lads any other witnesses about what actually happened

the link was in response to scotchegg’s post, and emphasising the differences in national laws which prompted my question.

Some discussion of vaguely similar incidents (child on cycle involved in accident) in the UK here

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/accident-car-driver-wants-to-take-my-bike-for-analysis

Roter Stern – Member
Yeah sorry I am in Germany but I can’t imagine the laws will be completely different to the UK what it being in the EU and all that.

the law varies widely across Europe. Indeed even within the UK the law differs significantly from Scotland to England.

This will give you some idea of the situation in England and Wales: http://www.inbrief.co.uk/child-law/child-accidents-compensation-liability.htm

go round to his house, make him watch you burn 150 euros, then tell him to go **** himself, and tell him if he ever shouts at your kids again you’ll cut his tongue out.

That should do it.

What a joke. I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. It was a simple accident, no-one is liable. It’s a risk of riding about on a bike. Sometimes you fall off and tear your clothes. Reply to him telling him you’ve had a word with your son but that’s as far as this will go.

If he wants to take it legal then you engage a lawyer who I’m sure will echo similar sentiments. Medical treatment could mean ‘a plaster’.

I am with warton on this. Go round and kick him up the shitzenholen.

What chunkpaul said. From what’s been said, I’d agree there’s not much chance of comeback for the bloke given no witnesses but we’ve only heard one side of the story from a secondhand source…still pitchforks seemed to have been unsheathed 🙄

The only thing that would concern me is the kids willingness to give out their address to strangers. The bloke in question is clearly a tool and as above needs to grow some bollox, stop picking/shouting on kids etc etc!

Guten Abend Red star

What warton said.

Ask him for proof that his brakes work. Also ask him to provide evidence that he has 20/20 vision.

I spent the best part of 13 years in Germany and remember hearing a story about a car crash where the person whose fault it should of been asked for the person hit to provide proof of 20/20. It turns out they should of been wearing glasses whilst driving. Positive outcome for the ‘ at fault ‘ driver.

Where abouts are you in Germany?

shouting at the kids is not on, but the guy might have been a bit shocked.

Check with some of your German colleagues to see what they think of the story and the legal position of any claim as they do things differently in foreign parts, but the bit where you wrote:

I have tried to get an account of what happened from my two but it’s all a bit vague and from my side

made me wonder if your kids are being somewhat vague – I know as a kid and adult, when you are being vague it is when you know you are bang to rights if you give a full and accurate description. It might be that I have the wrong end of the stick ( I’d rather that I did ), but it is something to keep in mind.

Total legal minefield and that without different countries

where they negligent?

assuming they have no assets does that make you liable?

can he prove that your kids are were at fault?

I think the last one is the key. I can’t see how he can prove anything. Your kids are too dazed to remember and he is the only witness

At 9 and 11 kids are prone to doing stupid things on bikes in the woods. It’s part of being a kid. This is why we don’t let them drive cars or fly planes.

If you’re out caning it around in the woods and you encounter a 9 year old on a bike doing something unpredictable then your actions list should involve having your own independent accident to avoid hurting the child, and making sure the kid knows that things are ok but he should not be doing backflips/mimicking danny macaskill/pissing whilst riding*.

At this point you should MTFU and get on with your life. If someone wrote to me demanding money because my kid caused them to fall off their bike, I would be on their doorstep ensuring that if they ever come within 500 meters of my children again, the Lord himself will need a telescope to help them find their testicles.

If you’re on terrain a kid can ride, then ride it as if there is a kid riding around the next corner on one wheel.

Write back to him saying “I have no idea what you on about I don’t have any kids” Or “I’m sorry my kids weren’t there that day, do you have any witnesses to who this was?”

This, without doubt.

“Tell him to swivel” lol

Maybe give your boys a talk about giving their address to people who aren’t able to handle a bike.

“Dear German thank you for identifying yourself my children made me aware that a strange man rode at them lost control of his bike and then scared them by shouting at them . They were absolutely terrified by your behavior and remain in shock . My wife and I have been caused considerable distress and inconvenience in dealing with this . I believe that we are entitled to 500 euros compensation from you . Please contact me with details of you insurers or your proposals for payment. “
No idea if this is truly valid in Germany it is not in England but may make him do one.

I would be inclined to speak to him and suggest that behaving in a way that scared the kids was not appropriate and since there is some doubt about how the accident occurred you will not be offering anything for his alleged losses.

I saw this behaviour in a cinema a while back. A young lad spilled some of a builders bucket coke belonging to a generously proportioned middle aged man who was so unpleasant he left the boy visibly shaken and tearful. Despite remonstrations from those surrounding the scene.

Having said that if I knew one of my boys had trashed something through carelessness I would be looking to make some recompense if they were not an ass about it.

My daughter went over the top of a car bonnet as it was pulling out of a pub in our village and they were getting very nasty, in the end we spoke to our household insurance and they sorted the whole lot out and told them where to go!

Not sure about Germany but it may be worth checking your insurance for some assistance.

Are you sure he was shouting? He might have just been speaking like a normal German.

Loads of macho here ! Dont underestimate the self rigorous. Depending on local laws he could cause you plenty of trouble. Write back in a polite and formal manner clearly stating that after talking to your children, you do not accept liability for his damages or injuries. Be firm but polite, you live in the real world not internet warrior land.

@tymbian. I live in Leipzig.

@crankboy. LOL. Might be worth a punt. 🙂

By saying that we don’t have any children with that name or they weren’t there; knowing Germans they will soon try and get the police involved.

I have just read the letter and in it he is insisting it was my older son who was at fault. He also wrote that he admitted himself to the local A&E for treatment for a cut knee and arm and torn tendons in his thumb which he is covered for by his health insurance. It seems that he has already been shopping for his shirt and trousers and has sent us a copy of the receipt!

I could send it all to my solicitor here but he’s a bit court happy sometimes which means he gets to line his pockets with our money. I’d like to use him as a last resort.

Lol that’s up there with the knob head who tried to sue me when I was 8 after he had knocked me off my bike!! It actually went to a court type thing! Some people are bloody idiots.

I wouldnt hand over any money. A polite letter back saying thanks but no thanks. I would certainly check with some local friends to see what they think too.

Get the police involved (edit: once you’ve checked with your insurance company).

There are laws to say that other road users have to take special care around children up to fourteen link. If the guy were in a motor vehicle it would be impossible for him to make a claim against a child up to ten, on a bike I don’t know but I bet it’s the same link.

Terrorising your kids and forcing an adresse out of them is illegal as far as I can make out from German legal forums.

You’ll have third party insurance somewhere. Contact you insurers and ask them to take the guy to the cleaners for you. They’ll no doubt advise better than me too.

Yeah sorry I am in Germany but I can’t imagine the laws will be completely different to the UK what it being in the EU and all that.

Why would you assume the laws in one country wouldn’t be different? Also check age of liability.

Anyway, when we lived in Germany we were advised to get 3rd party insurance covering all the family – the example used was what if your son kicked a ball through a neighbours window.

I’d (politely) call him up for a chat.