How do all

Currently have this

(The weeds have now gone..)

But I'm finding that on two hour enduro's, its killing my lower back. I've been doing core excercises for a while but it doesn't seem to be making much difference. I also realise that I could run bigger tyres but I can't stand that draggy feeling when you're on a fireroad climb and such.

Anyone got any idea's for a full sus XC frame? I've tried a Scott Genius and didn't like it at all – felt like I was perched on top of it. I'm quite a big chap – 14 1/2 stone – so no mega lightweight stuff and I have a motorbike fetish so it can't be stupidly expensive either.

Any ideas?

Trek Top Fuel? I've got an Alu frame one, and it's very smooth and relatively light.

My initial reaction from that pic (A pic of you on the bike might be good as well for us internerd experts) is that the seatpost looks fairly high for that size of bike. Below are a couple of suggestions – it sounds like you've probably already tried them, but it might be worth a try.

Have you tried a frame the next size up? it looks like you're running that post very high, and those bars look very low. Swapping to something with a slightly higher position and longer top tube may help. You can try flipping the stem back up the other way, or maybe trying a longer, higher rise stem. It doesn't have to be a mid-nineties barge pole.

Another thing is that seatpost is going to be muy stiff; try a carbon post or a ti-railed saddle as well. Also check with a chiroporacter or osteopath that your back / hips etc are in reasonable shape – it may be that you are carrying a long term injury that is making itself felt in rides.

Double check that your bike fits well, too. You should be able to rest the heel of one foot on a pedal at the bottom of its stroke without having to tilt your hips.

Finally, if none of that works, the Giant Anthem seems to have an excellent rep on here, and it might be worth trying to pick up a frame only deal from t'internet or a second hand frame in the classifieds. If you can, ride one first, mind. The frames seem pretty cheap, especially if you've no objection to buying an '07 or '08 frame.

I can't see your pic but regardless was going to answer along the lines of b_u. It could well be your position rather than the hardtail aspect of it.

If your position is relatively low (bars lower than saddle) and your flexibility (not core strength per se) isn't great (which is the norm for cyclists) then that would very likely be a cause too.

Are you a spinner or a grinder? If you grind a lot, it puts a lot of strain on your back which could well be a/the cause.

Flip the stem, and put some of those spacers back underneath it. What's the point in running a silly low front end if it kills you!? You'll be losing power anyway and thus going slower.

Fewer and fewer of the main manufacturers are selling frames only, neither Trek nor Spesh do anymore. I'm not sure about Giant, think they do the Anthem Advanced, and Scott sell the Spark Ltd, but they're crazy money. I'd look for a complete bike and flog what you don't want, or flog that entirely and replace everything with a new bike, Epic would get my nod.

Otherwise you've got the Titus X, Yeti ASR-SL etc etc.

Buy one of these.Good price too.Scott Spark

I suffered the same as you with my hardtail and on my roadie. A good carbon seatpost and shorter stem help on my roadie and I replaced my hardtail with this. Loads of kit for the money and can spend twice as long in the saddle without any hint of lower back pain.

Gian Anthem frame only.

Good points all, and Clubber, you reminded me of something Flange can try to test his core strength. Flange – can you ride your bike down the street, with only your fingertips resting on the handlebars? basically, if you can ride with no support from your hands and arms on the bars, then you have at least a little bit of core stability. Lots of people who just ride don't have it; I certainly lost lots when I stopped sailing. I've been using a balance ball thing while working (sitting on it now, as it happens) and it seems to help.

As various have said above, buying a new bike / frame / etc won't necessarily cure the problem. I had about six months of 'orrible back pain at one point until a chiropracter friend diagnosed and treated the problem. Might be worth getting that sort of thing checked out while you're at it.

Funny, I am in the same position as the original poster and I was going to suggest the Cube AMS too … it looks to fit the bill for me perfectly.

Don't buy a Spark 35, they're heavy and they don't have the Tracloc on the shock. The only good thing about the Spark is that it's light, to get it to ride nicely you have to use the lockout a lot, make it heavy and take away the decent lockout and you're left with a mediocre bike at best!

Just take 5 minutes to put your stem in a normal position and see if that helps!

I looked at the pic of your bike on my phone and I'm now pretty convinced that the cause is more likely to be your position than the hardtail frame.

As Njee suggested – try raising the bars a load – to the point where they feel really quite silly high. Ride and see if you still get back problems – if not, there's your answer. Then work on your flexibility (hamstrings) and gradually drop the bars to a reasonable position as it improves.

Actually, looking at it, you could flip the stem back to high rise, chuck on a nice wide-ish riser and that would probably do a world of good. Easton EA bars work well for me – you don't need to break the bank either.

Why get a riser bar!?

You've got at least 10mm of spacers, plus the inverted stem, that'll give you about an inch of rise over your current position, and as I've said it'll cost you nothing, and take you 5 minutes to try, if that doesn't solve it then think about other things.

My old hardtail was a tad harsh to say the least but once i bought a Thudbuster seatpost it made a world of difference. Not the prettiest piece of kit but certainly eases out the bumps and allows you to stay in the saddle much more and eases the strain on your back. Was like riding a softail after i put it on.

Also far cheaper thing to try rather than buying a whole new bike. There was a link in the classifieds to one being put on ebay at the moment which was the longest version so would fit your bike no problem.

Maybe you could borrow one off someone to try it out?

Njee – excellent point, and a far cheaper solution than mine. 😀

I was thinking that the extra rise and sweep might be of use, especially if Flange took one off that bike in the first place and has it lying around.

True, although the Stumpy hardtails have always come with flat bars. Then again that one came with a Fox fork and hydraulic discs, both of which seem to have been downgraded, which is a bit odd!

I had a similar issue a while back but didn't have any scope to move spacers. Changed a 0 degree stem for a 10 degree & problem solved.

Cool all round. Now, where's Flange gone? I want to find out how he gets on, dammit. This thread has an enticing plot… 😀

his thread has an enticing plot…

You need to get out more 🙂

why do you have your saddle sloping downwards rather than level? 😕

You need to get out more

Been stuck indoors all week from 8 – 11 ahead of a holiday, so correct once again. 😉

See, I start a post then get distracted, then forget about it.

Lots of really good advice on here chaps – very much appreciated. I'm a bit of a closet roadie at heart so wanted to mimic the position (of sorts) of my road bike (which I get no pain on at all strangley). So I flipped the stem and took off the (EA70) risers replacing them with flats, obviously not thinking that this might cause my back pain and that it was purely down to it being too stiff.

i've also got some way to go with my core strength – i've got one of those balance ball things as well. I'll try the finger tips test and see how I get on

I'll nip out at lunch at swap the stem back over and give it a try. I'm doing the Thetford summer series on Sunday so that should be a good test to see if its worked. I'll keep you posted

Re: the odd spec – I bought the frame from Ebay and stuck some stuff on that I had in the garage. Hence the lack of Fox's and niceness. Although I must say I do prefer cable discs – so much less maintenance!

Great stuff Flange – best of luck! Try NJee's fix first. If you still have the EA 70s, hang on to them – might be worth trying in the future.

I seem to remember Lance Armstrong getting into a similar pickle when he started mountain biking – he said he set his MTB up the same as his road bike, and got into all kinds of trouble with it. Sounds like you're in good company.

I'm going the opposite way to you – struggling to get the right fit on a road bike, so have been tinkering endlessly with bar and stem and STI positions. I feel your (back, or in my case wrist) pain.

Although I must say I do prefer cable discs – so much less maintenance!

Now you've really confused me. What maintenance would you do on hydraulic discs? The only time I've ever done any maintenance on hydraulics is if I've had to shorten the hose/detach it to route it through a frame.

I must say I do prefer cable discs – so much less maintenance!

Not used hydraulic discs then?! 😉

Spot on, I'll report back after the race.

Interestingly enough I also used to get wrist pain from STI's. Tried everything, including changing the position, gel pads, gloves, the lot. In the end I changed to Campy Ergo's and I've not had a problem since. Of course, this only applies if you ride on the hoods a lot, but it might be worth trying a campag equipped bike to see if it improves it?

Nope – I've just bought a set of them for my trials bike and I used to ride with them all the time. However, my special move involves taking the front wheel out to go in the car and either forgetting to put the cardboard in to hold the pads apart or it falling out due to my enthusiastic driving. The lever then gets somehow pulled, nips the pads together and I end up having to bleed them every five minutes. You'd be amazed at the frequency I have to do this.

I'm not saying hydraulics aren't as good, they just don't suit me

Shimano 10 speed hoods are quite long, the Dura Ace 7800 ones were about 8mm longer than the 7700 ones, and the 7900 ones are 10mm longer again, so if you ride at the front of the hoods you'll probably want to change stem.

Personally I'd rather suffer crippling back pain than ride Campag! Particularly the new Ergo Levers, they look horrendous!

How odd, I've transported disc brake bikes in the back of a car for 5 years without ever putting anything between the pads. In the very rare occurence that a lever gets squeezed you just open the pads up with a screwdriver or sommat! Never ever had to bleed, and that's often having 3 bikes in the back plus race kit on top of them!

Nowt wrong with cable discs, but saying they're lower maintenance than hydraulics is a slightly strange one!

I haven't had long on Campag so I'm sure I'll not be shouting so loudly about it after a winters use

I like the new DA lever shape so I'd be interested in trying that, although the cost it a bit salty. I think the new Ultegra uses the same lever shape so that might be goer.

had a bad back before I started biking and can assure you fs v xc makes no difference and unless you get the correct fs(with no chain feed back)you will still have problems. Took me 3yrs of trying fs bikes before finding one that I did not get a reaction to.(dodgy knees as well!!)

+ once you readjust your position as above you may find descending much easier

Update (for those who are interested.

Did the thetford race today and I still had a significant amount of pain, although flipping the stem and changing the spacers had helped a little as I didn't have to stop to stretch.

So I'm wondering if its the frame size thats causing the problem? I'm going to see if I can get measured properly as I think at 6ft riding a 19 inch may be a little on the small side?

Do some back strengthening exercises?

double post – sorry

In answer to original questions – A Giant Anthem or Scott Spark.

It does sound like you may have back problems rather than bike problems though (a lot of the advice above about setup is very good though). Various programmes available for free on t'net. Back stretching, increasing core strength and hamstring stretching should all help

Rather than the bars being too low, is your saddle too high? That would cause back pain, and explain the sloping down saddle…

So I'm wondering if its the frame size thats causing the problem? I'm going to see if I can get measured properly as I think at 6ft riding a 19 inch may be a little on the small side?

Seems quite right sizing, post a picture of the current setup. The best would be if you also post a picture with you on the bike.

Anthem +1

Hi Guys,
very interesting posts as I am starting to suffer with back pain but only on the Thetford rides which are very undulating, bmx style riding. I was wondering if the lower back pain is caused by poor technique (on my behalf) or very springy forks?
I had to stop twice yesterday to stretch out

Looks to me like you frame is too small. I'm not surprised your back hurts judging by the saddle height in relation to the handlebars. Do you "enjoy" riding in a roadie pose?

Do you wear a camelbak type pack? I used to get back pain on longish descents until I dropped the pack down much lower on my back, – worked for me!