We’re doing some work on our flat and we want (need) to move the electricity and gas meters.
The gas has been done – pretty simple and straightforward, just a £2k bill.
Electricity is a total pita. UK Power Networks are currently working on their second quote as they didn’t realise the house had been converted into flats. They are saying they’ll need to replace the single phase with three phase, including changing the supply to the upstairs flat. And then on top of that I’ll have to get our own electrician to do some work which he’s wanting to charge £2k for. So we’ll probably be looking at a bill of £6k to move it about 60cm.
Has anyone got any experience of UKPN? Is there likely to be any way round this that costs less? The guy who came out on the second site visit said if we had paid the original £2k quote then UKPN would have to pay the extra themselves as it’s their responsibility to know if it’s a house or flats – can I get them to honour the original quote?

can I get them to honour the original quote?

was it a quote, or an estimate?

I’m interested in this too as we’d like to move our electricity meter about 60cm (house if that makes any difference). I didn’t realise it would be that expensive to gaffer tape a bit of extra cable in to move the meter*.

*That may not be exactly what’s involved.

It’s done live I think and it’s not cheap at all.

We’re having one moved on the current job. Western power. Taking the meter outside into a meter box. We will dig the externals to expose the existing cable to then allow jointing into the new meter box. About 500 quid including vat.

And yes it’s done live, rubber mat the works 😉

The original one was a quote (valid for 90 days). They have just sent me the new quote (only £1k more than the original, better than I feared) and transferred my payment to the new quote.

The new quote is as follows:

The permanent disconnection of an existing underground single phase service
including the cut and application of a permanent protective end and strapping
the live stub of the service cable back to the low voltage main. This also
includes the removal of redundant service equipment.

£274

The connection of a new underground three phase 100 amp service jointed onto
the low voltage network. This service consists of the cut-out termination and up
to a length of 5 metres of inclusive service cable.
This task includes for the excavation and reinstatement of a joint hole in
standard footway surface types such as concrete, macadam and slab paving
with up to 3 metres of off-site trenching in the same surface type as required.
This also includes for the necessary notification to local authorities for
permission to excavate and any permits that are required.
The design of this connection also includes the assessment of your
requirements and the designation of the points of connection on the local
network. New MPAN/s (Meter Point Administration Numbers) will be raised upon
payment and they will be required by your designated electricity supplier in order
for the meters to be fitted.
Prior to your works being scheduled we will also visit the site to outline your
responsibilities and what our work will specifically entail. £1748

and then £600 for parking!

As we’re currently digging a basement they don’t have to do any digging under our property as it’s all open at the moment.

As it’s essentially a monopoly it’s not like I can ask anyone else to do it.
Maybe I can try to negotiate down the £2k fee from our electrician for his bit – he’ll tell me on Thursday exactly what he needs to do.

It’s because they’re not moving it, they’re digging up and cutting off the existing connection and then creating a new T off the 3 phase in the street – so a lot of ground works….

As it’s essentially a monopoly it’s not like I can ask anyone else to do it.

Are you sure they dont split the quote into contestable and non-contestable works? You can find other people to quote for the contestable stuff.

Is it just the meter you want moving?
If so, then you should be able to get an electrician to do it for you.
If you want the incoming cable moving (before the meter – the incoming cut out) then it is the electric supply company who are the only ones who can do it.
1k+ is the usual price for that.

the meter is the property of your supplier, not the DNO

if you change supplier, try again and get them to install a isolator at the same time – think the meter can be up to 3m from the mains fuse

Some of these prices are ridiculous!

Does it really need moving?

sounds like there are some wires crossed somewhere (excuse the pun) or we are not getting the full picture.

Are you converting a house into flats or is it already converted?

If already converted and they have just realised the power to the building is insufficient then it’s either something that they need to address or something that needs to be paid for by all the flats.

Why are they talking about 3 phase?

Can you take a picture of the installation and put in on here?

Prices based on the description seem right if that’s the work that is required. If they are upgrading the supply to 3ph due to it not meeting their current design spec then you could ask them to pick up the network improvement cost and you just pay for the repositioning. Need a picture to judge.

You can get other companies to quote for the constable works. All the works can be done by another company except for the final connection to the LV main. However, in my experience this rarely works out cheaper unless, for example, you live in the countryside and can dig the cable trench yourself (as long as it’s in private ground).

There are deals to be done if you push them

Why are they talking about 3 phase?

They’re not, but the way they supply you is ‘T’ing off one phase of the 3 phase which runs down the road, they take a spur off each phase in turn to try and keep the load roughly equal between the phases. Each house only gets one phase (unless you need 2 phases eg for E7 etc).

It was converted into 2 flats ages ago, before we bought the ground floor. We are excavating a basement and the meter is currently on the wall at the top of the basement steps, so we want to move it to open up the space.
All we want to do is move the meter (about 60cm) – we don’t need to move the incoming supply. It currently comes into the (shared) front hall, where it splits into a supply for our flat and one for the upstairs flat, but the incoming supply (before it splits) is single phase I believe and they tell us it needs to be 3 phase.

Here is the only photo I have with me – it probably doesn’t show enough

[url=https://flic.kr/p/pytunm]IMG_20140708_084656[/url] by Sandra and Alex, on Flickr]photo[/url]

It currently comes into the (shared) front hall, where it splits into a supply for our flat and one for the upstairs flat, but the incoming supply (before it splits) is single phase I believe and they tell us it needs to be 3 phase.

Sounds about right, they’d bring in two phases, one of each of the flats rather than one phase shared between the two.

Is there a cut out on the meter board?

It’s worth talking to the meter supplier. It sounds like the main incomes does not need moving and the meter supplier can just extend the tails for a set fee. However, if there is a sub main then the DNO will need to get involved.

As for the need to dig up the road and uprate the existing supply ( disclaimer -I havnt sent he whole job) then I would say that this is not required. If the DNO need to uprate this (to bring it up to current design spec) then they should pick up the cost and you just pay for the sub main to be moved

Again -not seeing the whole job, it’s difficult explaining – just don’t pay what they are asking until you have asked the meter operator

Two flats can easily share the same phase. loads of propeties currently fed in these arrangement especially as you have mentioned you have a gas supply as well. Slightly different if you have electric heating

Thanks jumping_flea, I’ll try to take some more photos on Thursday morning when I’m next there.
We have gas heating.

So should I ask EON if they can move the meter?

Yes, if e.on are your appointed supplier speak to them.

If you explain it’s a small move, they should just quote a set fee and send someone round once they receive payment. If you start to tell them it’s vomplicated they may send someone round to check first.

Stick with simple move – should get sorted

How do you expect them to move the meter without doing anything to the ‘inlet’ cable?

Have a look at the uk power network site for details of their costing methodology, it’s a condition (by ofgem) of the work they do that that you should be able to see that, or request they send you one.

FYI I design similar things to this but for gas. If I understand what you’re saying correctly, then we’d normally have a small standard charge for moving your meter and then carry out the other work required at our cost.

Simple single phase. You can do it yourself, not at all legal and I can imagine it’s easy (ahem…….), but our meter is very neat……

nuff said…

C

As chrise says above, any electrician can do that.
To do it properly, you’d arrange with your supplier to come and isolate the supply, then the sparky will be able to extend the tails.
Or,if there are no seals on the cutout, maybe it could be done without any supplier involvement,then tell them afterwards that there isnt a seal on your cutout. Completely against the suppliers rules, but it happens every day.

How do you expect them to move the meter without doing anything to the ‘inlet’ cable?

The incoming cable will have a cutout on the end of it. This is the end of the DNO’s equipment. From the cut out there will be tails to the meter (or an isolator then the meter). If its just a meter move then the meter fixer will isolate via the cut out fuse and extend the tails to the new position.

FYI I design similar things to this but for gas. If I understand what you’re saying correctly, then we’d normally have a small standard charge for moving your meter and then carry out the other work required at our cost.

Agreed – same in the electricity industry, except if the move is significant or the supply is to be upgraded at the request of the customer.

Or,if there are no seals on the cutout, maybe it could be done without any supplier involvement,then tell them afterwards that there isnt a seal on your cutout. Completely against the suppliers rules, but it happens every day.

Yep, most sparkies will do this.

Apologies for the thread hijack..

We have found this montrosity in the kitchen of our new home. I’m going to try and play the safety card when I ring up the supplier and explain I’m not happy with the installation (especially given the position adjacent to a gas oven). What’s the chance of getting this lot moved a couple of feet to the left (into the garage) free of charge?! Slim to none?

DSC_0187 by VeeeDubStar, on Flickr

DSC_0188 by VeeeDubStar, on Flickr

The house is getting re-wired anyway and it would be sensible to address this at the same time I guess..

Cheers
Nick

Nick

That would be chargeable to move. The dno cutout (black thing at the bottem) would need repositioning, so would require a hole outside, and a sub service straight joint with a new piece of plastic cable to a new cutout at the meter position.

Good idea getting it re wired as it looks a mess – but then I’ve seen much worse. As for safety/position you could try to get some cost deducted, but it’s doubtful.

Tom

On a second look at the picture, it looks like they have looped next doors supply out of your cut out. Standard practice a few years ago, but may be a point to make to get a discount.

Tom

Apologies for the slight thread hijack, but I have a question – is there a limit to how far apart the meter can be from the consumer unit?

Reason I ask is I am looking at a 1970’s 2 bed single storey cottage where the meter and consumer unit are in a detached garage, with all of the wiring for the various household circuits then running into the property via a dodgy-looking timber lash-up between the garage and the property. Place could do with a complete rewire (there’s nowhere near enough sockets for today’s gadgets) and am thinking that it would be good to get the consumer unit inside the property itself, but having read the earlier bits in this thread it would appear that not moving the meter could save some money.

Thank you for the information JF – much appreciated. Any additional info I have when I speak to them is useful.

Cheers

Seems like the moment to post my tale of woe from last summer. We were re-building a house in France. The previous owner had had the mains connection / meter put in on the cheap and it was located in what was to be our bedroom, so we had to move it. The build, of course, was running late, we were trying to get moved-in with our summer season already well under-way. The electricity supply was the only thing stopping us moving in (bare floors and walls and camping kitchen aside). Our rent was up on our old apartment and, in any case, we couldn’t afford to pay rent and mortgage at the same time. It was all a bit stressful. There wasn’t an actual meter there to move, just the mounting plate for it and the power wasn’t even on. I passed my electrical safety inspection with flying colours (was a bit nervous as I did most of it myself) and called ERDF (French electricity network people) to get them to fit the meter and turn our power on:

1st technician – you’ve moved the meter mount! Oh my God! We’re all going to die! You will need to start again, possibly all the way back to the power-station, which you will also have to rebuild.

Stevo – doesn’t it just need screwing to the wall? With that screwdriver you’re holding in your hand?

1st Technician – NO! IT DOESN’T WORK LIKE THAT! DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND THE PAPERWORK THAT WILL HAVE TO BE DONE!

……

Stevo – Hello, ERDF? Yeah, your technician’s just been round. He couldn’t turn my power on because our electrician had to move the meter mounting bracket from the ridiculous position that it was originally installed in.

ERDF phone line – WHAT!? OH MY GOD! THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE! YOU MUST CALL OUR HEAD OFFICE!

….

Stevo – Hello, ERDF regional Head Office? Yeah, your technician’s just been round. He couldn’t turn my power on because our electrician had to move the meter mounting bracket from the ridiculous position that it was originally installed in.

ERDF RHQ – WHAT!? OH MY GOD! THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE!

Stevo – Really? Can’t it just be screwed back onto the wall?

ERDF RHQ – Well, I suppose so, but our technician isn’t authorised to do that.

Stevo – Who is authorised to do it?

ERDF RHQ – Ummm……

Stevo – My electrician took it off the wall in the first place, can’t he just put it back on?

ERDF RHQ – He’s not authorised to take it off OR put it back!

Stevo – Look, somebody has to put it back. Surely he can do it?

ERDF RHQ – Well, OK, we suppose, just get him to put it back.

…..

Stevo gets out screwdriver, screws meter mounting bracket back onto wall in about 2 minutes.

…..

Stevo – Hello, ERDF? Our electrician has come back out and fixed the bracket back into place. Can you send some round to turn the power on?

ERDF – No, because your file is now listed as a “problem file”.

Stevo – Right, so what do I have to do?

ERDF – We’re not sure, you’ll have to phone HQ.

…..

(Phone HQ, get un-blacklisted, wait 48 hrs, call ERDF again, get them to send out another technician).

…..

2nd Technician – I can’t turn your power on. There isn’t any rubber shrink-wrap on the end of your cable.

Stevo – Can’t you put some on? With that heat gun I can see in your toolbox?

2nd Technician – I don’t have the correct type with me. I have every other possible type, but not that type. I’ll leave the meter and stuff here though so that it’s easier for the next guy.

…..

Later same day – RING! RING!

Stevo – Hello?

2nd Technician – Hello, Stevo? Yeah, I’m working overtime tonight, I can come round and put your power on if you want?

Stevo – WOOHOO!

….

Stevo – Hello, Darling? ERDF Just called. They’re coming back round to turn the power on later. We can move in to our dream home tonight!

…..

2 minutes later…. RING! RING!

Stevo – Hello?

2nd Technician – Sorry, did I just call you a minute ago?

Stevo – Yes?

2nd Technician – Ah, sorry, I called the wrong number. I can’t turn YOUR power on tonight. YOU have to call the office and start again. Ask your neighbour if you can plug an extension into their house maybe?

Stevo – (*&^&^$^%$^&%$£$£!!!

…..

3rd Technician (same as 1st Technician) – Right, let’s get this meter installed!

Stevo – Don’t you have to put the rubber heat-shrink stuff on?

3rd Technician – No, screw that. No point

Stevo – You have got to be &^*&^%^ kidding me?

3rd Technician – I know the guy who came round last time, he’s a muppet.

3rd Technician – Right, that’s it on, your power is switched on, where’s the cover for the meter?

Stevo – What cover?

3rd Technician – The last guy, didn’t he leave the cover for the meter?

Stevo – Everything he left is right there, haven’t touched it.

3rd Technician – We can’t leave it switched on without the cover. We’ll have to take it off again.

Stevo – You have got to be &^*&^%^ kidding me?

3rd Technician – Maybe we have another meter in the van…. yeah, we do…. [starts again]

Power finally goes on shortly afterwards….

I spent about a month before their first visit, looking at the meter mounting thing and thinking I should just screw it to the wall myself. If I had, we’d almost certainly have got the power on at the first attempt. Honestly, there was even more to it than above. Total nightmare.

Or,if there are no seals on the cutout

I just snipped mine, moved the tails and then refitted seals (bought off Ebay).

Was quite surprised how thin the wires were in the master 100A fuse box, about 3mm in diameter. Seems a bit pointless having 25mm tails connected to them!

Tonyplym – no, there is no limit as to the length from the meter to the consumer unit. However, other are DNO rules that say the tails should not be over 3 metres long, some have slightly different requirements – 4 or 5 metres.
Anyway, anything over that length should be protected by an over current device, usually a fuse. They are pretty cheap at around 20 pounds, so no real excuse to not fit them if you are doing work on the property.

Thanks for the info alanl.

Distribution company own the cut out.
Meter asset provider (appointed by the supplier so essentially the supplier) own the meter.
You own the home’s distribution board.

Your distribution company move the cut out position not your supply company – so not Eon, EDF etc.
If it’s just the meter then feel free to try the supplier – they may play.

If you are in the Northern Powergrid area (my patch – North Lincolnshire to the English border country, and from the Pennines east) then this may help

Northern Powergrid cut out position moving guide prices and application

Or email me – I may know someone who can help.

The OP gets to deal with UKPN and unfortunately I am unable to help.

PS looped services were great in their day, but not any more due to phase balance and PV as much as anything else.