I was born in, and continue to live in a small Herefordshire country market town, and all our young people are leaving, they are being replaced by more and more city folk 'escaping to the country'. I suppose I should be welcoming to these new people ( and I do genuinely try to be!), but they just annoy me intensely. They come with pre-conceived ideas of what the town should be like, and are turning the town centre into a quaint, quiet little 'gift shoppe', 'tea shoppe', 'Antique shoppe' experience. Some are plainly retired on large pensions and running these shops as a hobby. Recently a local pub applied to have extended hours so that the local kids had somewhere to go to at the weekend instead of traveling to the local cities for a night out. Suddenly the pub was public enemy number one with all these retired people protesting about the noise it may create at night! The new people all say what a wonderful community we have, but fail to see the abject poverty and isolation of the youngsters,and the locals who are single parents, unemployed, disabled. I don't want to be one of the locals who goes around muttering about 'them incomers' but it's very hard not to! I'm really concerned that in about 20 years time all the towns and villages in this area will be glorified 'retirement' estates with all the locals having to move to the cities. Anyone else experiencing this? ( and apologies to any on this forum who have moved to the country, I'm sure you are a great addition to your new community)
Bike Forum
'Move to the Country' - why does this annoy me!
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Posted 1 year ago #
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just think what it would be like if all the young people kept leaving and no one came to live in the village.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I live in Ludlow,
You anywhere near me?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Isn't this what bombers are for?
I feel your pain, I grew up in a coutry town in West Dorset, Bridport, for the 1st 14 years of my life, then moved to East Dorset because of parents jobs, I have always felt like I belonged back there, I recently got back in touch with my old school friends.
Those who I considered at the more intelligent end of the spectrum have left, those who were a bit daft / crazy have all but left for the big cties and clubbing. The only ones who are left are struggling on low paid jobs in non skilled industries having taken whatever job they could get when they first started looking.
Non of them are exactly dying of hunger, but they also don't have the same opportunities and they are getting priced out of the housing market.
Having said that Bridport isn't really a commutable distance to any big centres so they only get the retiring guys and no the commuters, the pubs are open late in the town centre so there is a pretty decent pub based nightlife from what I can gather, plus they are surrounded by some amazing countryside.
That said those that left said they found it quite suffocating growing up there.
Posted 1 year ago # -
One of the great things about living in a free country is that people can choose to live wherever the please.
Posted 1 year ago # -
If you have never lived in a small country town it is really difficult to explain what is happening without coming over as a right old grouch, but its so sad to see the old ways going and being replaced with an almost 'theme park' version of a country town!
Posted 1 year ago # -
loddrik - interesting point, and one I completely agree with.
Unfortunately one of the downsides of this freedom is that sometimes what is best for the long term future is over shaddowed by the short term wants of those with the loudest voices.
Bit of a catch 22 really.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Sadly, I think it's the same in a lot of rural areas. In Wales, we have the additional factor in that most won't learn our language, which makes it difficult for them to integrate into the community. Those that make the effort to learn Welsh tend to be warmly welcomed.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Don't get me wrong we have some great new folks moving to the town who are far more active than the 'locals' in preserving and increasing local facilities. But sadly they just do not understand the dynamics of the community and see it all through rose tinted glasses.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Incomers here are often appalled by the accent, the mud and farmyard filth, animal smells, nighttime silence, darkness, cider, lack of facilities, the beards and the inbreeding. Those who accept it are welcomed (including us).
Maybe not the inbreeding.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I know what the op means. I grew up in Rural Oxfordshire and even in my life I found the local towns and villages altered from having a mixure of people to becoming primarily posh suburbs for Oxford Swindon , Reading , London. Some of whom then complain about someone trying to get planning permission for a business or that the Farmers are on too late working and making a noise e.t.c.
It two factors.
1. Less local jobs and what one there exist are very low paid.2. The rise of the motor car and cheap fuel meaning everyone want to live one place and work somewhere completely different.
Areas need a change of blood but it's sad when most either commute away all the time.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It is a free countryish and you can live whereever you like so long as you can afford it, which is as it should be. The same as you can move anywhere in the UK for work ,if you are offered enough cash most people whould move almost anywhere. For how long is another matter.
The movement of people from the rural to the city is a two way street but seems tends to affect the rural areas more.
In the rural areas most young people move away for education/work/life opportunities or to escape the everybody knowing all about you syndrome and tend to end up in urban areas. Those who stay and parents tend to moan about house prices and lack of well payed jobs. Also you tend to hear the suggestion that cheap housing should be available for people born localy.
People who who get fedup of urban living and have earnt enough cash move to the rural areas and bring up their children which closes the loop.
The increasing cost of motoring will reduce the amount of people who can afford to commute and possibly reduce the price of housing.
The real pain is holiday homes which are empty for most of the year as it destroys comunities
Posted 1 year ago # -
Having recently moved back to herefordshire where my wife and I grew up after about 8 years away in cities I can sympathise with your points jj55. Especially when you say the 'incomers' are trying to preserve a 'way of life' that they dont understand or actually have any experience of, there seems to be a very quaint image portrayed of country life, missing entirely the fact that it's generally damned hard to find work and make ends meet.
However on the flip side, we do need people to move to the country bringing with them entrepreneurial spirit and new business. biggest issue for us with this is the price of houses are higher than cities which makes it harder for young people to stay or return to the country.
We are trying to live in the same area that we work, and really be part of the community, and yes, this means buying local produce and paying a bit more, but in return we get to support local people and be able to say good morning to nearly everyone we see when we walk through the village.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Of course it's a free country, and I wouldn't have it any other way. But I just wonder if those who are 'moving to the country' really understand where they are moving to, and why they are doing it. A beautiful country lane in May looks a lot different on a wet February afternoon when it's covered in cow sh+t. So many farms in Herefordshire have now been converted into mini country housing estates for those who feel they are now part of the country, but the whole community that relied on that farm for employment has gone and with them the real rural community.
I agree that we need the new entrepreneurial skills, and have seen this in action in my home town. They are very welcome.
Don't start me on the poly tunnel debate!! Farmers making good money, which is finding it's way back into the local economy being (yes the migrant workers do spend the money they earn locally). But its all being severely hampered by those who have moved to the country objecting to the loss of their expensive views.
I suppose i'm just an old fart reminiscing about how great things used to be..... but they were!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Has it not been this way since the industrial revolution? Advancing technology focused jobs in the large towns and cities and as agriculture required less and less skilled man-power so people were driven to move to the cities. As the cities got larger, noisier and smellier those who could afford to moved out to the newly created suburbs in what was then the country. Modern transport has simply made what is commutable that much wider spread.
The Northumberland village my folks moved to after retirement suffers exactly what you describe. Farming the valley is becoming sustainable for fewer folk and as the kids grow up they move to Newcastle. Once the couple running the pub retire I wonder what will become of the community.
Posted 1 year ago # -
similar things in villages all over the country - next they will be complaining about the noise of the chickens, objecting to any planning applications for affordable housing for the "locals", and complaining about the kids hanging round as they have nowhere to go as the proposals for a skate park were rejected......
Still, beats living in the city!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I grew up on a farm in northumberland would love to bring my kids up in the same place as my family has lived in the same valley for 500 plus years. No jobs though a don't want to commute that much. Always thought that they should have planning rules that mean all new housing should have provision for places for people to work in the same area. Big new housing estate in rothbury, thanks duke, but where are all these people going to work? Interesting to see what happens with travel costs and home working. Living in Sweden now and most people want to live in the city but most have a little house/shack/cottage in the country. Same in most other European countries isn't it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
In Wales, we have the additional factor in that most won't learn our language, which makes it difficult for them to integrate into the community.
hmmmmmm have the thought police seen this?
which immigrant groups won't learn the language then?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I was born in, and continue to live in a small Herefordshire country market town, and all our young people are leaving
Thing is they are probably leaving because they are bored sh1tless with the place and even a pub that caters for younger people doesnt compete with clubs, pubs, bars, jobs and fast moving lifestyle they see on TV. The thing is I wonder if all the people that were born and bred in the large towns & cities are moaning about incomers coming in from outside the area and the villages?
Posted 1 year ago # -
The thing is I wonder if all the people that were born and bred in the large towns & cities are moaning about incomers coming in from outside the area and the villages?
Yes they do. I know several Londoners that do just this.
GEDA - Member
Living in Sweden now and most people want to live in the city but most have a little house/shack/cottage in the country. Same in most other European countries isn't it?England has a very high population density and the effect of the UK being an Island means that the rest of it also has high property values.
Posted 1 year ago # -
i do wonder what will happen over the next few years, a 50 mile commute is only possible if there are decent roads and cheap fuel. With fuel getting ever more expensive will there be a point when the movement to the countryside reverses? And to be brutal for all the talk of home working, it is not going to happen, most jobs need you to be in the same place as your office/factory/hospital/etc
As for retiring to the countryside, where do the nurses, carers, home helps etc live?
Something will give usually does.
Posted 1 year ago # -
England has a very high population density and the effect of the UK being an Island means that the rest of it also has high property values.
England doesn't have that high a population density, the South east has a high population density. as for scotland and wales...
Posted 1 year ago # -
[quote]In Wales, we have the additional factor in that most won't learn our language, which makes it difficult for them to integrate into the community.
hmmmmmm have the thought police seen this?
which immigrant groups won't learn the language then?
Quite. England has similar problems but risk being termed racist if pointing it out or failing to embrace the non-english speakers.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I guess all places will evolve over time, and the things ain't what they used to be brigade will always cherry pick the memories of what things were like.
Progress innit.
that said, if you end up with a ageing population, why would the young uns want to stay there if they a) can't buy a house/afford t live there and b)have fun int eh town where they live.
The thing with ageing populations is that they don't tend to be around for too long, so maybe this type of things turns into a cycle.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I politely disagree with the OP. I live in suburbia and have my annual holiday in a cottage in Devon with my kids and missus. I've rented it for last 7 years.
I work (reluctantly) in chemical manufacturing.
My wife and kids like the 'gift shoppe', 'tea shoppe' and 'Antique shoppe' experience. They also like the beaches, countryside and also maybe the idea (real or otherwise) that there are some nice places in this country.
Replace gift shoppe with off licence, tea shoppe with kebab house and antique shoppe with tatto parlour and we won't go on holiday there again.
If the local pub applied to have extended hours so that the local kids had somewhere to go then we won't go on holiday there again.
I'm surprised to hear this especially on this forum. I bet there are many here who've just spent their hard earned money in such tea shoppes on their weekend ride.
Posted 1 year ago # -
couldgetacarforthat - I think the OP is maybe a bit frustrated that his home town isn't seen as a 'real' place anymore, existing on it's own merit, and has turned into some sort disneyland experience for retirees.
I can see his point too, that if you live somewhere, antique shopping probably isn't quite as high on your list of priorities as, say, getting a bottle of wine on a friday night.
shops and attractions in rural towns can't just be about satisfying the people who spend one or two weeks a year there - they need to serve the community.
hmmm. interesting thread this.
Posted 1 year ago # -
England doesn't have that high a population density, the South east has a high population density. as for scotland and wales...
I think you will find it does.
383 people per sq km (2003). http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/population.html
Which puts us just behind the NL in Europe (403) for population density. The only places with a higher population desity in Europe are little city sate and principality. Looking on a global scale countries with higher populations than us tend to be gain small city or near city "state" such as HK or small ish islands like in the Caribbean. The others if not very small Island states are some other small countires like Lebanon.
Bangladesh, Taiwan, South Korea and the NL are the other bigger countries with higher populations densities. Infact we rate a higher population density than India. So I would say yes even on a global scale we do have a high population density.
In addition to this the context of what I wrote was impornat. I said the rest of the UK being on the same island experiences a ripple effect resulting in high house prices.
England has a very high population density and the effect of the UK being an Island means that the rest of it also has high property values.
The comparison regarding a shack in the woods was relevant to this point. Also because unlike other high population density parts of Europe like the NL we don't have the massive areas next door to spread out into like they do. More specifly though the person I was quoting was on about Sweeden. By comparison Wales and Scotland do not average out the population density to be that low when you compare to Northern Europe say grouping together the high density areas, NL, German, Denmark and the low population areas of Noway and Sweeden.
Total UK population density. 255 people per km^2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density
Our comparison of N.Europe. Total population. 1 276 761
Total area 118 218 473
giving a population density of 92.5924844 people per km^2.Considering the comparison was infact made with Sweeden (pop density 21 per km^2) rather than my constructed area of northern Europe what has a significantly higher population density than Europe adds further strength to my point and the comparison which was being made.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I used to live in Portsmouth. Very dense there.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Jimbobrighton - the only reason I posted tonight was I was in my local off licence getting a bottle of wine (actually thats a lie it was 4 tins). Anyway few lads came in buying chocolate probably about 16 years old and gave the guy behind the counter loads of abuse. Very uncomfortable situation and I feel bad that I didn't deal with it (especially after a good day on the bike). No reason for it just idiocy.
Like many people I don't know what real places or community are anymore. This isn't just a rural problem
Certainly my grandparents wouldn't recognise where I live.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I was brought up in Manchester but lived in Herefordshire for 10 years at a time when the local councilors decided on who would get what grant (Damp) and was based on wherever you were local or not and definitely not on need. She the bitch said I couldn't have the grant despite the wife living there all her life and having 3 kids. Of course this doesn't happen now. When I got divorced I had to move back to Manchester and hated it. No chance of staying in Herefordshire because of house price. I now live in Lincolnshire.
Now I expect jj55 that the little 'gift Shoppe', 'tea Shoppe', 'Antique Shoppe' is more a product of tourism.
But outsider do not as some idiots on this site suggest, help the local communities.
Firstly they do not move to the countryside with there children they moved there when they retire........result there goes the local infant school and children end up having to get the bus or even a council paid taxi to school.
Next goes the village pub outsiders are many time less likely to use the pub despite all there money, they prefer to drink at home.
And then the local shop they always go to town or to a city to get there shopping partly because they have the time and because they think that the local shops are ripping them off. Quick example: - that garage is charging extornate prices for petrol they are robbing you/us. The fact that they are closing down at a rapid rate which clearly means that they can not making a profit, this completely escapes outsiders as they expect supermarket prices for everything.
Next go the buses how are the old people (retired farm labors for instance) going to get to town to the shop after all the incomers have moved in and NEVER USE THE BUS? To be fair that is only while they can drive once they can't they start campaigning for a new bus service.
Now a huge proportion of these incomers will have little to do with the local community as stated earlier “everybody once to know your business.” I recently spent 2 days unconscious in an epileptic stupor. Pretty useful a neighbor noticing my curtains had been closed for a while.
The worse thing of all is the belief that the utilities should be as good as the cities. Unbelievable! Why move to the countryside if you want internet speeds the same as the city. OR uninterrupted electricity supplies. One nob head was trying to get petition up because the electrify went of occasionally for 20 minutes or so.......worse he said it happened at night as well, he could tell this as his clocks were wrong. IE when he was asleep? Towns and cities subsidize nearly all rural utilities so you have no right to expect the same quality and locals realize this.
Now this really winds me up how incomers look down at people who hunt or put another way telling people that they are cruel. Which is the crueler buying meat that is kept indoors all the time or at best kept enclosed in a field? No hunting rabbits is cruel, shooting pheasants is cruel. HOW MUCH MORE FREE RANGE CAN YOU GET. I actual heard one person say you should not kill rats unless you really have to. One neighbor lost 14 chicks to rats in one day. The rats ripped out there throats (sorry cannot think of the proper name) and eat the corn in the throat despite the floor of the pen being covered in corn. ONLY MAN KILLS FOR PLEASURE………BOLLOCKS.
Now of course I am talking about the majority not all. I for instance keep as many pubs open as possible (hard on a bicycle but I keep at it) and the other people “who try to fit in” soon become part of the community and of course you soon get to know them. Well you would do, they are part of the community. In some ways I find it an advantage that they don’t want anything to do with the rural community. For instance a local farmer takes me up to his field leaves me to strip a tree of apples while he plows which adds another 5 gallons of cider (to the 28 other gallons I have) and then takes me home. All my cider is made with apples I got for free by being part of the community. Beating gets me £25 and more pheasants than I can eat and new friends who can help out. A chat with a bloke in a pick up who stopped just because I waved as he drove passed (I was out walking) gets me a couple of rabbits when he sees me (Freezer getting a bit full have to hide from him as I don’t want to hurt his feelings). Regularly when on the beer someone insists on putting my bike in the back of there car and dropping me home especially if I keep falling of in the pub car park. I am ok I say I will be sober by the time I get home its only 12 miles (or 40 if I am really drunk). Two weeks in hospital meant someone came to my house to take me to the pub at least twice a week (note I am not necessarily talking about next door but people living up to 12 miles away). All in all jj55 you are 100% right about most of the people who move rural BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE SECOND HOME OWNERS THEY UTTERLY DESTROY CUMMUNITIES COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DESTROY THEM. There are villages with one or two people who live there the rest are second home owners. The house prices are three or four times higher than they should be. They could just rent a cottage for the amount of time they spend there but no they prefer to steal someone else’s home. Someone said the Welsh had the right idea…….fire bombing second homes rubbish they burned about ten down max. Lazy bastards. PS I am about to do some serious terracing to my garden, farmer gave me 65 concrete posts. Of course I gave him some cider well 4 bottles and a half a liter of Sloe Gin. Well must go I have a years worth of wood to saw up ohh you get that by being part of the community. The latter is an exaggeration I have already cut up half a years.Posted 1 year ago # -
I also grew up in a little 'village' outside Leominster, in Herefordshire. I say 'village' because it wasn't much of a village by the time I was born. It had a primary school, which I went to, and a parish church. It had a few houses and farms. But it had no shops, post office or bus service. It had a pub though.
I'm not sure exactly which town you're talking about OP, but I just wanted to chip in and say that I understand where you're coming from, and also to recommend a book to you. It's called Changing Lifestyles, by John Seymour. The main thrust of the book is about the disconnection between the urban and the rural, and how we have developed such an unsustainable, in every sense of the word, countryside.
I also recommend this little article.
Posted 1 year ago # -
loddrik - Member
One of the great things about living in a free country is that people can choose to live wherever the please.
Is that true? I thought money played apart in it and the more money you have the more houses you can own/steal. Like for instance John Major who has 4 houses in England. Do I smell a sencond home owner?? PS one of the main points of this blog is that people cannot live where they work and therefore where want. Try to keep up loddrikPosted 1 year ago # -
mrmo - Member
i do wonder what will happen over the next few years, a 50 mile commute is only possible if there are decent roads and cheap fuel. With fuel getting ever more expensive will there be a point when the movement to the countryside reverses? And to be brutal for all the talk of home working, it is not going to happen, most jobs need you to be in the same place as your office/factory/hospital/etcAs for retiring to the countryside, where do the nurses, carers, home helps etc live?
Something will give usually does.
For a while I had to do a 28 mile commute was hard trying to keep the weight on. Cycling and eating at the same time is not that pratical.Posted 1 year ago # -
mansonsoul - Member
Those words say everything "the disconnection between the urban and the rural," Nothing more needs to be said.
It's called Changing Lifestyles, by John Seymour. The main thrust of the book is about the disconnection between the urban and the rural,
I also recommend this little article.Posted 1 year ago # -
I lived in a small village in Hampshire from age 4 through to 21, then I went to Uni and after that moved to London.
My hometown is completely different now...it's almost doubled in size, and the fields me and my childhood friends used to play in have been replaced by sprawling, off the shelf housing estates.
Although kids don't need to play in fields anymore, they've got 'Wii Camping', and 'Wii Going Outside' to keep them busy.
Posted 1 year ago #
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