Obi_Twa – Member
PSP – Carbohydrate 99g/100g & Go – Carbohydrate 95g/100g

So why would you use both?

To ensure you got sufficient, but not excessive, quantities of electrolyte in your energy drink. PSP is without, GO is with electrolyte. Insufficient electrolyte on a hot day, or just on a long ride, where you've sweated a lot out and you'll suffer some or all of muscle cramps, stomach cramps and nausea, extremely unpleasant in my experience. Too much electrolyte is also unpleasant, hence the "plain" energy drink with just carbs.

TORQ also make their drinks with and without electrolyte (flavoured with and plain without), which is not realised by most users I've found!

Blazin-saddles – Member

PSP22 has a lot more carbs per ml than GO, GO is designed as an electrolyte drink than you use alongside gels for extra carb intake. GO alone doesn't provide a lot of energy.

Not so – see below
robdeanhove's explanation of why not just use one or the other is plausible for very long efforts,but I don't think my 5 or 6 hour rides fall into that category

Nutritional information per 40g/500ml serving of SIS Go Electrolyte –

* Energy – 144kcal
* Protein – 0g
* Carbohydrate – 37g
* Fat – 0g
* Fibre – 0g
* Sodium – 0.23g

Nutritional information per 50g/500ml serving of PSP22 –

* Energy – 187kcal
* Protein – 0g
* Carbohydrate – 47g
* Fat – 0g
* Fibre – 0g
* Sodium – 0g

1. Your buddy in the army is wrong, an off the shelf chocolate milk is not as good as an energy supplement becuase almost everything in it is slowly digested. What you want is fast digesting carbs, slats etc and protein if you can get it in there.
2. Lucozade sport is an energy supplemenmt and you buy it in tubs and mix it yourself. So you can be bothered with energy supplements. You can if you wish buy the pre-made stuff in bottle but thats just what it is pre-made for you. It is a powder.

1. Hmm… who to believe, highly trained army cross country skiing professional, or someone on the internet, hmm… Plus there's been a few magazine articles which have suggested exactly the same thing. Anyway, I'm not using it as an energy supplement, I'm using it as a basic recovery drink.

2. Sorry, I got my brand name wrong, I meant whichever lucozade product it is that is effectively flat salty orange juice. I would mix my own but its very easy to find this stuff (whatever its called) in the shops.

Would second the spoiler comment, I don't flatter myself by thinking I really need any of these drinks, but on long hot rides would rather not find out the hard way, hence the Lucozade

Dirtynap, your first mistake was you have taken my post seriously and regarded it as response worthy. Your second mistake is that the last bit of your post is far too serious

Touche waderider

Obi_Twa I never mentioned anything about the amount of carbs in any of the supplements, so why do I need to wake up.

You did however make a mess of reading 13thfloormonk's post.

Haha, he's avoiding that one 😉

Did I, explain please.

Please explain in biological or chemical terms why a supermarket milkshake is as good as a specfically design fast absorbing milkshake (thus classing the latter as a sports supplement).

Lucozade sport is the orange salty drink, and is a sports drink. http://www.lucozade.com/sport/products/fuel/body-fuel-drink/#tabbed-content-3 and logical sense tells me that if I used it I'd buy it in a powder becuase its cheaper and exactly the same.

Highly trained army skiier he maybe, but why does that many he knows anything about how the body works at the cellular level. Nice that you assume I know nothing about the subject though.

Having siad all that REGO'sprotein source is soya which is a rubbish protein source, infact it's classes as a none complete protein unlike milk. It does however contain maltodextrin at 98% pure.

Please explain in biological or chemical terms why a supermarket milkshake is as good as a specfically design fast absorbing milkshake (thus classing the latter as a sports supplement).

No, i can't. But other reputable sources seem to agree that one is as good as the other, and at a basic level aren't all recovery drinks basically a blend of proteins and simple carbs? So… milk and chocolate and sugar then.

Lucozade sport is the orange salty drink, and is a sports drink. http://www.lucozade.com/sport/products/fuel/body-fuel-drink/#tabbed-content-3 and logical sense tells me that if I used it I'd buy it in a powder becuase its cheaper and exactly the same.

Haha, tenuous deflection from your original point, if i wanted to use powders I'd buy something like, SIS Go perhaps? 😀

Highly trained army skiier he maybe, but why does that many he knows anything about how the body works at the cellular level.

He doesn't need to, other people decide that for him. In terms of marketing, I'd prefer to believe the army's no bullshit use-what-works approach, as opposed to believing some company whose whole stock + trade is devoted to selling mountainbikers expensive supplements.

Dirtynap – have a look here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029509 and the endless lists of other linked articles that say chocolate milk is just as effective as that which is marketed as being actual recovery products etc.

Can you explain a bit more about your :

Having siad all that REGO'sprotein source is soya which is a rubbish protein source, infact it's classes as a none complete protein unlike milk. It does however contain maltodextrin at 98% pure.

comment.

flap_jack – Member

"SIS stuff is old technology."

That's all we need though. Sugar and salt and something to make it taste nice. Sorted.

Surprised nobody's pitched in with "electrolyte shortage doesn't cause cramping", thread seemed to be going that way.

Dirtynap – Member

Please explain in biological or chemical terms why a supermarket milkshake is as good as a specfically design fast absorbing milkshake (thus classing the latter as a sports supplement).

There is a theory that a mix of protein to carbs in a 1:4 ratio is the best way of absorbing the carbs, and that after exercise you need rapidly absorbed carbs and protien. Science for the formner is shaky at best.

Recovery drinks aim to provide this using whey powder and malttodextrin in carefully measured Amounts. flavoured sweetened skimmed milk has the "magic ratio" of protein and carbs just about perfect. Same as apple juice mixed with water and with added table salt is as good as any electrolyte drink. Contains a mix of sugers and salts in the right ratios.

For the "weekend warrier" these products are entirely uneeded ( but convenient) All we need to do is ensure we have enough of a mix of carbs and don't run low on salt and water and if you believe in the "recovery drink" then have a cheapo milkshake afterwards.

Buy the fancy stuff if you like – but all it is is convenience

I think protein shakes have their place, I don't gain muscle very easily and I have become noticeably stronger since I started adding the High5 powder to pints of milk after training. I have noticed that I crave it worst after weights/plyometrics/circuits or an interval session, wheras I tend to be happy with plain milk and more carbs after a long steady run.

I forage for nuts and berries when I'm on the trail, for other times I use EPO, HGH and a mixture of amphetamines and testosterone patches.

Aren't you just crazy?! I bet you just crack yourself up.

Please explain in biological or chemical terms why a supermarket milkshake is as good as a specfically design fast absorbing milkshake (thus classing the latter as a sports supplement).

Well if you are sure you can understand both of the chemical and biological terms it means you're a rather educated science man, and thus you have access to ISI web of knowledge. In such case you have indeed use the "chocolate AND drink AND recovery" tags in the search box. One of the very first results is a peer review article that show light on the fact that milk is as good as expensive recovery drinks.

Buy the fancy stuff if you like – but all it is is convenience

Blimey, from you that's almost a recommendation, you used to call it snake oil

1. Your buddy in the army is wrong, an off the shelf chocolate milk is not as good as an energy supplement becuase almost everything in it is slowly digested. What you want is fast digesting carbs, slats etc and protein if you can get it in there.

Actually, if you read the study, I seem to remember that off the shelf chocolate milk is not 'as good', it was significantly better as a recovery drink than fancy bought sports drink. They are not quite sure why, but it was a real difference.

Some people hypothesise that it is because we have evolved to drink the particular mix of proteins in cows milk over many years or something like that, can't remember what exactly.

I started using chocolate milk as a recovery drink last year, and it does really seem like it works to me, although I was only doing between 100-300 miles a week every week, so I wasn't really a full on long distance type. I've met other people with longish (>150 miles a week) commutes who have switched to the chocolate milk over the fancy recovery drinks with no ill effects too.

Joe

My point about lucozade sport is that you said you couldn't be bothered with the powders and the fact is lucozade sport (that orange stuff)is a powder you just buy it pre-mixed, which means you pay more for it than if you bought the powder.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20029509 is a ten person 15-18 hour recovery trail of a carb drink (unnamed) against a carb and protein drink (choc milk) and surprise surprise the carb and protein wins.

I never said chocolate milk or strawberry etc was bad I just said it was not as good. I guess my interpretation of what is best is different. Choclate milke will get you there but it wont be as fast, therefore I deem that as not as good.
Its no surprise that chcolate milk is a good recovery drink because if you buy a choclate flavoured recovery powder you will find it is basically chocolate milk but dried with a bunch of stuff added. However there will be some noteable differences designed to get the recovery done faster than chcolate milk alone and cram in more nurtients.
Milk contains 20% whey and 80% casein proteins. Modern drinks increase the amount of whey to casein ratio because whey digestion peaks at roughly 1 hour after indesgtion and is absorbed in roughly 2 hours where as casein takes 4-6 hours therefore the higher concentration of whey hits that magic 2 hour so called anobolic window after excerise and gets lots of the protein and a higher concentration of amino's into your body to fight off and repair muscle damage quicker. Modern drinks also contain simple sugars like maltodextrin, waxy maize starch, dextrose but also some contain oats so as to prolong the release of carbs into the body over time. Also modern recovery drinks are designed to be taken within 30 minutes of ending exercise and then followed up by a meal around two hours after excerise.

Fliud replacement drinks during exercise with carbs in them help prolong endurance and will help anyone pushing themselves for 2 hours or more.

All I am saying is that modern formulas make recovery quicker for those that train or excerise at a high frequency. Those excerising once a week or just a few times a week wont benefit much from spending the money on designed powders I agree on that. Those training at a high frequency and hard will benefit, because recovery time is reduced. Note: recovery time is dependant on an individuals body so metabolism is important as is general fitness.

Soya is a complete protein but due to its very very low Met content it has to be supplemented with nuts to get the full benefit, almonds are good for that.

You should know by now that Wikipedia is not a good source of information. You also seem to have forgotten to look at the reams of other studies that say chocolate milk is better than the expensive stuff.

Dirtynap – you need to have a look at the basic science behind this stuff as well.

I use PSP stuff, did a 24hr solo on it so can't be all bad….

Chazman – I did a 24hr solo on bacon and egg rolls. Doesnt mean that they are all that good.

wikipedia???

I never said chocolate milk was worse I said it was not as good for fast recovery. Studies general are around the 10 hour+ mark. What you want is to recoevry as fast possible, well at least I do.

500 ml Yazhoo
8g fat (5.5g sats)
16.5grams protein
59grams of carbs (basically all refined sugar)
370caloires
£0.40
So almost the perfect 2:1 ratio and has a good amino acid profile and a an 80:20 split between casein and whey proteins.
So yes this will recover you perfectly well but not as well as the below.

500ml recovery XS drink (1800gram pouch)
0.3grams of fat
24.3grams protein
50 grams carbs
276 cals
£1 per drink
Has basically the perfect2:1 ratio and contains creapure, a massive dose of glutamine and leucine. The protein is all fast absorbing whey isolate so it has a concentrated and highly amino acid profile than milk alone. The carbs all come from waxy starch so no refined sugar. Also it is low fat with only 0.3 grams of sats, and its lower in cholesterol. Also lower in calories for almost the same carbs and protien value. Infact it means you have 100 calories to play with which could be carbs, protein or good fats if you wanted.

Granted it costs more