Perhaps this merits a couple threads really but I’ll leave them together for now. I’m a student (keep the jeering until the end please) and start a 4 month placement in February at another site, it’s not too far away and transport links are good so I’ll probably use the bus or cadge a lift with someone else. However, after that I’ll be doing 7 week placements in various different places a couple of which don’t have good public transport links so I’d started thinking if I should buy a car.

I’ve been driving for 10 years but never owned a car because of money which is not to say i couldn’t do it but in the past Ive chosen to have a digi SLR and bikes rather than a car because I’ve always felt running a car would suck up all my money whereas if don’t use the camera for a while it’s not a big deal, doesn’t cost me anything and can always sell it etc.

I guess I have a few questions, how cheaply can you run a car? Won’t be doing the maintenance myself and don’t know if I’ll have time to be able to pick up all that much in the time I have free. I’m 28 no claims or points but also not had insurance with me as first driver (except hire cars etc) Is it worth it or should I just pull out all the stops to get lifts etc?

The other option because my gf doesn’t drive and because it’ll prob be cheaper is to get a motorbike. Spoken to couple mates who’ve had bikes and they said they’re great and very economical but just like pushbikes no-one will look for you esp on the early morning commute. Gf is also not keen on the bike but partly because I’ve always wanted a bike and I reckon it will be pretty cheap to run im tempted.

Have to point out that don’t have my license though plus having a car to cart bikes would be awesome (and not dying on the roads also a bonus)
I reckon the commuting by motorbike could be a thread in itself but anyway let me know any thoughts and opinions. The decision is a while off but if do decide to get a car want to start saving and also find out what’s worth buying etc.

ta

Don’t expect to save a significant amount with a bike – depending on what bike of course but they don’t do fantastic mpg especially small two strokes like most scooters, tyres don’t last long,, it will cost a fair bit for the training to pass your test and insurance and all the kit is expensive althogh at 28 you get into the realm of cheap insurance.

similarly you will get folk come on and tell you how they can run their car for tuppence its normally bollox. think several thousand a year. People almost always grossly underestimate how much a vehicle costs to run

What TJ said about bikes, plus I used to do a lot of commuting and I lost count of the amount of squashed motorcyclists I witnessed on the M25. Depends on how far and type of journey I guess.

Car wise, realistically you need to budget for a minimum of £100 a month to keep a car going, but a couple of large bills can easily bring this up to £150 a month.

Thats before any depreciation!

I always found the running cost for bikes to be about the same as cars – the mpg’s about the same, tyres are the same (you swap them a lot more frequently on a bike), servicing is more frequent (5000 mile intervals rather then 15000 on many cars), and insurance isn’t cheap. And that’s before you get to the cost of leathers, boots, helmet etc.

Bikes are awesome to commute on and can be very cheap to run if you get a small(ish) sensible one not a sportsbike or a big tourer. I used to commute on a Fireblade because it was fun but the fuel and tyres cost a bundle.

THe problem is that being good (and safe) on a bike comes with practice and experience so you can’t simply do a test and be a seasoned rider overnight. THis also has a knock on effect on any pillion’s confidence too.

You can’t run a car for tuppence – true – but if you buy wisely you can pick up some cars that have had a careful owner, lots of renewed parts and a full MOT which you might be able to run for a year without any costs except for insurance, VED and fuel. Again, that takes a bit of knowledge and research to work out the best strategy for buying.

For example: If you’re after a certain car then look around on forums/Parker’s/HonestJohn for common probs. If you see that clutches usually go between 70-90k then when you’re looking for one around that mileage you look for one that’s just had a new clutch. Simple.

You’ve hired cars before, presumably for the odd day here and there, can you get a longer term deal for those seven week placements where you need it, then use public transport for the others ?

You could get a workable car for £2-300 if you are particularly lucky. Insurance could be £400/year, tax £150 ish I suppose, and then there’s fuel of course. Cars like that are so cheap you end up getting shot if they go wrong, so no bill would ever be more than £300…

Bangernomics it’s called. I did 30k miles in a £250 Passat in comfort – did a modicum of work on it myself but nothing major.

What sort of locations are we talking about? Where you live and where you might end up? Can you not get a folding bike and train/ride?

Like Molgrips said.

Got 18 monrths trouble free motoring from a 1990 MkII Golf 1.3L that cost me £140.

Nothing went wrong as there was almost nothing to go wrong. Sailed through its MOT and never had to do ANYTHING to it.

Wish I still had it 🙁

I second what molegrips said about ‘Bangernomics’ I once got a renault 18 in 1998 for £50, MOTed it for about £100, insurance and tax for a year then scrapped it and got £30 when the MOT ran out.

If much of your journeys will be in heavy traffic or on slower non major A roads you could look at a small twist and go, I commuted for years on an 80cc Piaggio Typhoon, including 18 months from Leeds to Halifax, got 80mpg max 50-55mph top speed, never broke down and only fell off/got knocked off about three times, you can’t beat small scooters in traffic, fastest way to get from A to B.

These have the added advantage that you learn to survive on a powered two wheeled vehicle at far less lethal speed than if you go through a direct access test.

The difference in cost is very dependent on the bike. My CBR600 isn’t very economical on fuel and eats rear tyres in less than 4000 miles so is a lot more expensive to run than a small car (I used to run a Honda Jazz) – although in my case, being old, meant that the bike insurance is no more exensive than the car.

On the other hand I’ve also got an old Honda XBR500 which is a 4-stroke single and can do 55-60mpg no problem and was also very cheap to buy and run – certainly a lot cheaper than the Jazz was. If you were mostly commuting in town with only small sections of 60mph limit then something like a little Honda CBF125 would probably get 100+mpg and also have cheap insurance and other running costs.

A lot depends on how far away your placements are. Commuting on a motorbike in the current run of weather will leave you very cold unless you’ve spent A LOT on riding kit. A small and cheap to run bike will be fine around town but leave you very vulnerable on motorways. You’ll have no acceleration for overtaking and will be blown about easily by cross winds and the bow wave of anything passing you at speed. The effects of wind chill increase sharply once you get out on open roads.
Bangernomics sounds the best bet. Bikes are great to ride when the conditions are right but can be horrible when they’re wrong.

EDIT: Bikes aren’t all that cheap either. Budget £1000 plus for something that hasn’t been hammered and never serviced. You would get a far better car for that money.
I’m not trying to put you off bikes, honest.

I’ve done a fair bit of commuting on bikes.

If it’s just a short commute and you’re happy with a small bike it could be reasonably cheap. If it’s a long commute on a big bike it’s no cheaper than car, or possibly more expensive. Don’t forget to budget for kit, especially if you plan to ride in the winter.

I did 20,000 one year, well 6 months, (7 years ago on a big bike) which cost me 40p a mile (all in, bike depreciation, kit etc). That was with a used bike and paying for maintenance rather than doing it myself and includes lots of tyres.

Don’t assume that it’ll be faster than commuting by car. Getting your kit on / off, getting the bike unlocked / out of the shed etc really adds up. If the actual journey isn’t 20 minutes quicker by bike you might as well take the car.

Then there’s life expectancy. I had to stop commuting by bike because it was becoming apparent I wouldn’t last much longer.

On balance bikes are toys. You can use them for transport but usually a car makes more sense.

I have just started commuting on a motorbike as I have always wanted a bike & having spent last 6 months travelling the 18 miles to work taking on average 1 hour mostly sat in queing traffic.

Bought a 18mth old Honda CBF for £1,200, annual insurance £250, road tax £15, currently averaging 130mpg & takes me on average 35 mins to do the same journey. £90 to do CBT test which last for 2 years.

If the bike was only for commuting I would stick with the 125 but plan to do DAS course next year to get a bigger bike for more fun!!

I my case definately much cheaper to run the bike than the car but I do also have the car for days when weather is really bad.

Don’t forget parking costs in your calculations.

At my work the cheapest parking for a car is £12 per day and 10 mins walk away. Nearest parking for motorbike is free and 20 metres from my desk.

Much cheaper to run the motorbike than the car or catch the bus, but it’s a 125 and I don’t have Big Bike Licence yet. It runs a whole week on £10 gas, the same trip in my van would be £40, bus £40 and at least twice as long each day.

Adds a bit more adventure to getting to work though it has to be said, not for anybody who is highly strung !! Or reckless. Or impatient. Or overconfident. I could go on…

M/C’s are not cheap to run, unless you are using a small one – and you only want to use a small one for short runs (say up to 20 miles).

There are two main advantages over a car; on longer/congested commutes they are very quick and usually you can find free/cheap parking.

My new commuter will save me 2 hours per day (over car or public transport) and I can park it at the client site:

And if you had a Limited company, that could buy (and run) the bike – and get all the VAT back, (finance) write-off in the first tax year and no personal taxation nor employer NI (if only used for business) 😆

Got 18 monrths trouble free motoring from a 1990 MkII Golf 1.3L that cost me £140.

And I got nearly a year out of a £160 Honda CG125, then sold it for something like £340…….. 😉

But no, a bigger bike isn’t cheap to run. Even my old CB500 (The perfect commuter bike really) was more expensive than a car to run. It’s the tyres and the more frequent servicing that kills it.

But it was faster, more fun, just as practical at the time (3 Years without a car) and most importantly after doing a driving job for many years, NOT A CAR! I’d got sick and tird of driving cars and getting stuck in traffic.

It’s horses for courses really. You can save money on a bike, it is doable, but it’s more like what you WANT rather than what you NEED 🙂

great response guys keep em coming makes very interesting reading. bit more details about journeys-based in derby and in nottingham for the 4 month placement. The subsequent placements can be in derby, nottingham (1 of 2 sites, one close with no decent parking, one further away with good parking) mansefield (25/30 miles away) and lincoln (50/60 miles away)

there’s no way to know where any of the placements will be so in theory could all be in derby but that’s hugely unlikely

the biggest difference, and I’m surprised no-ones mentioned it: when you drive you arrive in a foul mood having been held up by every idiot driver in the way. When you arrive on a motorbike you have a grin on your face. If you’re doing it right.

I used to work 25 miles from home, I had to go into the centre of Exeter and back out again every day. Car journey 45min-an hour of aggravation. On my GS, 30 – 45 minutes of fun, admittedly more fun in the summer… at this time of year I used to put on my Santa costume over my normal biking gear for added safety. (You SMIDSY’d Santa?!?!)

bassspine – Member

the biggest difference, and I’m surprised no-ones mentioned it: when you drive you arrive in a foul mood having been held up by every idiot driver in the way. When you arrive on a motorbike you have a grin on your face

Good point 😀 You do don’t you?

Even in lousy weather if you’re stuck in a car you’d always rather be on a bike.

I’ve commuted by car, moped public transport and bike.

Bike wins for me anything under hour each way peddling and I’d be cycling. How far 1 hour gets you depends on traffic, roads, fitness e.t.c.

Derby to Nottingham is 15 miles according to gmaps so depending on what side you live and what side the placement is consider cycling. Best stress release to cycle to and from work. 15 miles is getting on the longer side but easily doable under an hour.

Cars can be cheap despite what TJ says. I think he is going on the RAC pricing model of newish car on tick, the most expensive way to have a car. Car auctions are good places to pick up cars for the bangeromics model. Take a friend who know a little about cars and you can pick up a bargain. You may have to go several weeks in a row though, it’s an auction so you can’t expect what you want to be there on the week you go. Persistence pays off.

heart – bike
head – car

I have a folding electric bike I’d sell you. 35-40 miles on a single charge, you don’t get to work sweaty, folds for bus/train. I used it for 10 mile commutes before moving into town.

You can’t run a car for tuppence – true … a full MOT which you might be able to run for a year without any costs except for insurance, VED and fuel.

I have bought a car for £300 in that camp (several years ago now) and insured it TPF&T etc but it still all adds up. Nowadays my cars are a bit more modern, we recently went from 2 cars to 1 and recon it saves us £200 a month (and that ignores any depreciation). That car was only normally used for daily journies of < 10 miles.

£300 for the car (assume at that price it lasts one year, or needs similar cost for year 2). Of course it might die after a week, or might last 3 years with nothing more than an MOT.

Insurance – I suspect even TPF&T you are looking £600+; possibly more if you want to pay monthly.

Road tax – depending on the car but £137.50 (paying 6 monthly because you are skint, and assuming smallish oldish car).

Breakdown cover – as its an old banger you need some – £50.

So you are already looking at £70-80 a month before you turn the key or anything goes wrong. Petrol is the killer though. You’ll probably be lucky to get 40 mpg out of it. Assuming that public transport with cycling combined is not a possibility I guess you are doing 20 miles each way. So that is a gallon a day = another £120 a month! So all in you will get to £200 a month assuming no major issues.

Has anyone found a decent banger recently though?? it seems to be getting harder and harder to find one. If they are cheap its usually for a reason.

Like others I have done a fair bit of commuting by bike. For me 30 to 60 miles each way daily most recently on a FZ6N. I love bikes & love track days, trips to the continent, etc but the only reason to use a bike to commute was time saved through traffic and more parking options when I got there.

Downsides are running costs are probably higher than a basic car, the cold can be really bad in winter, increased risk of death or injury, helmet hair and generaly more effort to look presentable.

In your situation, unless traffic or parking were a big issue, I would go for the car. It can be useful to carry stuff too.

I have both though….and I’m getting older & more sensible….

For cheep reliable AtoB transport get a bike.

Honda CG125 – £800-£1000 (the chinese copies are more fo a gamble

Insurance ~ £200 at most TPFT

Fuel ~ 100mpg if you rag the tits off it, 120 if you try hard.

Tax £15

CBT/Helmet/Jacket/Gloves/waterproof trousers – £200-£250

Useless as bike transport though.

What the hell kind of bikes are people riding on here that don’t get better mpg than a car? I have a 1500cc very big and very heavy custom cruiser and that does close to 50 mpg. My missus has a 125cc Vespa and that probably gets 80 mpg+. I doubt she spends more than £10 a month on fuel. Insurance is pennies for the scooter even though she only has her CBT license, and tax is about £20 for the year.
Cars come nowhere near, in the financial sense. Safety-wise then there are obviously big arguments against.

What the hell kind of bikes are people riding on here that don’t get better mpg than a car?

My vehicles:

CBR600F – mid to low 30’s mainly, sometimes 40mpg on a longer run and low 20’s on trackdays.
CBF1000F – 40-45mpg most of the time
XBR400 – 55-65mpg no problem

When I ran a 1.2L Jazz I was getting 45-50mpg with it. With my Merc I get 25mpg or so commuting, and 30mpg or a little more on the motorway.

My BMW R1100 did around 40 mpg. and around 3000 miles per £120 rear tyre

Fair enough epicsteve. I didn’t realise the sports bikes were so bad. Also, I’ve never had a car that even reached 35 mpg – and they’ve not all been crazy ones – so I thought that was a ballpark decent figure for a car.

What the hell kind of bikes are people riding on here that don’t get better mpg than a car?

I’ve got a bandit 1200 and a firstorm at the moment (I used to commute on a different firestorm). Neither manages more than 30mpg. Which is less than my pickup truck.

In fact if I put both bikes in the back of the truck I’d still get better mpg than riding either.

Both bikes will do a rear tyre every 4,000 and a front every 8,000. The truck tyres are part worn at 30,000 and cost half as much.

Also, I’ve never had a car that even reached 35 mpg – and they’ve not all been crazy ones – so I thought that was a ballpark decent figure for a car.

Not these days. 45 is where decent starts in my book.

If your work will take you to different places every 7 weeks beware to tell your insurance company as most only cover you to one place of work only i had to pay extra to get business cover to make sure i was covered.

My last three ‘commuters’ were all good on juice:

zx9r – 40mpg
fazor thou – 45mpg
tiger 1050 – 55mpg

And now the 1050 Sprint GT.

All better than any car I’ve had.

50mpg for Wifey’s 10 year old Micra when we drove it from Southampton to Belfast for a short break last month. 40ish round town.

75mpg for my Jap import VTZ250 and it’s just quick enough to be interesting.

I didn’t realise the sports bikes were so bad.

They’re not all that bad – Kawasaki’s seem to be a good bit better. I used to ride with a guy on a ZX6R and he was getting 45mpg+ when I was getting 32mpg on my CBR.

The subsequent placements can be in derby, nottingham (1 of 2 sites, one close with no decent parking, one further away with good parking) mansefield (25/30 miles away) and lincoln (50/60 miles away)

For those sorts of distances you’d be wanting at least a 250 and preferably 400/500cc or bigger. Honda Deauvilles were built for that sort of thing and early ones can be had for £2K (maybe less) now. They’re very reliable, good weather protection, very comfortable, shaft drive for low maintenace, decent economy (I used to get 45-50mpg on mine but most riders were getting 60mpg or more) and you’ll easily get 8000 miles from a rear tyre (over 10,000 miles if you fit a hard compound and/or are easy on tyres). Not the most exciting bikes by any means but built for that sort of work so perfect for it. They actually handle quite well (much better than the Bandit 600 I also had) and aren’t that slow.

Bangernomics doesnt really work with bikes as very few bangers are about my BMW F650 cost £900, quite hard to get a servicable bike much cheaper. Cost at least £500 to do the test and lessons, another £250-£300 at least on riding kit. Insurance is cheaper though £150 rather than the usual £350 for the car. Bike is cheaper to run on my 15 mile each way comute though than my skoda fabia.

In my experience with sports bikes, Honda CBRs aint too good on fuel. Whether it was a 900 or 600, the riders always filled up first (my 1st sports bike was a cbr6).

I have a old KLR250 trail bike for commuting. Its a hoot to ride, nippy enough, can go 2 up alright, and does 65mpg. Costs £30/year tax and is well cheap on my insurance (although discounted for multiple). Servicing mainly myself, very infrequently! Just lube and oil checks more freq. Tyres last ages – in fact the front doesnt seem to have worn in 10,000s I’ve had it! Bike cost £900 3 years ago.

I also have a GSXR750 (on my 4th now), which I tour/track and play on. Sometimes commute. It’ll happily do 35-40mpg commuting. Tyre wear depends on your weight, the torque of the bike, suspension setup and your riding, but I’ll easily get 4k out of my rear, inc a trackday or 2. Servicing every 4000, £150-300 by garage.

We have 1 car in the family and its done us fine for years. Worth bearing in mind my commute is only 7miles each way, so a 250 is fine. It would be fine for upto maybe 15miles each way. M/W riding is not great on it.

Without doing your own repairs to a car you’re denting the possibilities massively. As TJ says, lots of people underestimate the cost of their car, but I can,have and do run a car for buttons. Bough in early 2008 for 2000, now worth 1500, but I rarely count depreciation as I buy my cars older and keep them until they fall apart anyway…

Each year:
250 insurance.
125 tax.
50 MOT.
Sundries like wipers, an oil and filter change etc £50

So approx 475 a year. Maybe 600 if you include depreciation which is getting lower each year.

“One off” repairs:
And so far one set of tyres in the 3 years at £140 for 4.
One wheel bearing – £22.
One track rod end due to a pothole impact – £9.

Plus fuel of course, which depends on you location, routes and how little you care about being cattle-crushed into sweaty boxes with ill people for twice the fuel cost of your normal car journey…, might cost you a bit 🙂

Before this car I had a notably more expensive car to run (still have it for fun), but before that one I had a peugeot 205. That cost me even less to run/repair. Over 5 years of ownership i dont think it cost me more than about £300 in parts/repairs, one set of tyres and the rest was repairing it after I crashed it into a ditch, and even that only cost £250 quid lol. Stuff like brake discs were £20 per axle, pads £15. Air filter? £4.