Only she can make the decision – you can help. support, advise but its her decision about her body.

Am I the only person who does nt agree with this ?

Even if looked at from a purely scientific viewpoint the genetic material of the child is a ~50% from the mother and ~50% from the father. So how can it be just her body ?

And obviously at some point before birth its 100% some one elses body.

Personally I take the opinion that you dont want accidentally kills someone so its on the pro-abortion group to prove to me at what point it isnt a separate individual or I'll just assume the safest option with is conception.

I pretty much agree with OP a termination is a serious procedure and obviously will affect both parents and the child/potential child and as the OP says it may affect him emotionally never mind the mother.

I dont really think people should be having terminations willy nilly and OP seems to suggest they are in a reasonably good position to have a child doesnt really seem like any pressing reason to terminate except they might have less time for fun.

do you actually have anything constructive and helpful to add to the debate?

It's cool, TJ's views are relevant definitely. I could be happy being 50 and backpacking with my wife with no kids around! But my conundrum at the moment is more that I'm not happy about the idea of ending a pregnancy that has now occurred…

Makes me laugh all these "you're selfish, kids are evil etc etc " type people. What if your parents had thought like that???? There's one to ponder over you numpties!!

That's a bit harsh, as that is there opinion which does hold some truth. No need to throw insults around just because you don’t agree with someone.

The answer is there would be one less person in the world. Which isn’t exactly a bad thing now, is it?

To answer the OP, it's her choice. Stand by her whatever she desi

Ian – no – going with my (female)parter of 30 yrs.

My addition to the debate – trying to cut thru the crap and to give an alternative point of view.

I cannot stand the attitude of a man saying "we are pregnant" 'cos its just utter drivel. She is pregnant. The couple is not an indivisible item its two people only one of who is pregnant.

anyway – I have made my point. I believe in a womans right to chose and I have seen the situation the OP is in when the woman was pursuaded to have the child end in a right mess.

Edit – ta Gnarman – I was trying to be helpful if not what you wanted to hear

What a horrible situation to be in gnarman 🙁

I don't think it would be unreasonable to end a relationship over something like this – after all, there's no compromise scenario, is there? Do you want kids?

I couldn't imagine life without my little boy, and I feel like my life has truly begun, not ended (and I speak as someone who had a LOT of "freedom"!).

iain1775 – the op asked for thoughts, not personal insults to be aimed at those people offering advice.

Do not blackmail her into having the child – that way lies disaster. I know a couple in this sort of situation – she got pregnant unexpectedly – He pressured her into having the child ( she would have aborted). 10 yrs on they are miserable and so is the child. Their relationship is on and off, she resents him for persuading her to have the child.

Do not let her blackmail you into agreeing to an abortion – that way lies disaster. I know a couple in this sort of situation – she got pregnant unexpectedly – she pressured him into agreeing an abortion (he would have keep the kid). 10 yrs on they are miserable. Their relationship is on and off, he resents her for persuading him to agree to the abortion.

This is my admittedly simplistic opinion…

If you have the child and your relationship breaks down then you all suffer – you, your wife and the child.

If you don't have the child and your relationship breaks down, you and your wife will suffer for a while but can move on to new relationships. Or maybe your relationship will survive and kids will become an option again in the future.

Come on Gnarman – its not possible – we will be walking 20+ miles camping out for 2 nights and carrying all our own kit – no child under about 12 could do that.

Funny if we spend a night away our girl stays with grandparents/friends and she has a great time and we do as well.

TBH, if you (as a couple) didn't want babies, why aren't you using contraceptives? Any way too late now huh?

but I also don't feel it's right to terminate based purely on what I feel are selfish reasons.

TBH what other reasons are there? As others have pointed out, you can offer your opinion, but at the end of the day it's her body, y'know? and if she decides to terminate, then YOUR JOB is to make sure that she feels a) she can make those sorts of decisions, and b) to support her decision once she's made it. your job is not to offer her a veiled blackmail about risking your relationship. That's not to say you can't offer her your view, you can, but don't waterboard your view to the extent that she feels compelled to go along with what you want.

She's a person, she's not an extension of you, once she's made up her mind, after discussing it with you, then respect it, and support her.

scu98rkr – Member

Only she can make the decision – you can help. support, advise but its her decision about her body.

Am I the only person who does nt agree with this ?

There are a lot of people don't agree with this but they are simply wrong as you are.

Its her body and her right to choose – 100% Morally . legally and ethically.

Men have tried to get court injunctions to prevent their partners having terminations and failed every time.

she does not need your consent to have the termination.

imho it's selfish to have a baby

How on earth is it selfish to do the one single thing we are put on this earth to do?

But I really feel for the OP – I contributed to his first post and he knows my views on termination when in a relationship but it sounds to me that, unless she has a quick change of mind, this relationship is destined to failure. The only possible solution I could suggest is to convince her to put off an abortion until the latest possible time so she has time to consider her options. But at the end of the day, if she really insists losing the child is the only solution then I am afraid you would have to accept her decision.

How very, very sad this must be for you. 🙁

The answer is there would be one less person in the world. Which isn’t exactly a bad thing now, is it?

Being devil's advocate for a moment, I'd argue that with an ageing population and a post-boomer generational pinch, us thirtysomethings need all the baby taxpayers we can get. Same goes for the whole of Western Europe.

If my wife were currently up to the walking then we'd be going backpacking all weekend for sure. Kid and some kit on one back, camping gear on the other. No bother.

I used to think I didn't want kids, and then I started to think about the years slipping by with nothing but self-indulgence to mark the time passing.. It felt kind of hollow to me. I love to do stuff for other people, and who better to do things for than your own kids? It's a unique relationship you can't have with anyone else.

TBH, if you (as a couple) didn't want babies, why aren't you using contraceptives? Any way too late now huh?

for 11 years we've used condoms exclusively, wife can't take the pill as it messes her around… 6/7 weeks ago we'd been apart for 2 weeks or so… I got lucky (or unlucky?!) with my first free throw from the line…

we are put on this earth

Fallacious argument. We're not PUT here for a purpose, we just are here 🙂

TandemJeremy – Member

Only she can make the decision – you can help. support, advise but its her decision about her body.

Gnarman – its not We are pregnant – its she is.

They're perfect Guardian-style answers, but I can't completely agree with them – in a marriage (or any long-term relationship) you have to give up part of your personal liberty, and that includes pregnancy. Of course it's her body, and at the end of the day if she wants to terminate she can, but she needs to realise that her decision may have unwanted consequences. Similarly, a woman cannot simply decide to get pregnant without consulting her partner. The pregnancy is a shared experience, albeit one where 95% of the work is done by the woman.

To the OP: you're both young, if your wife really doesn't want a kid right now you've got at least another 5-10 years to change your minds. Let her know you'd like to have it, but that you support her decision either way.

Its her body and her right to choose – 100% Morally . legally and ethically.

This is simply is not true. No matter how you look at it 50% of the fetus is from the father.

How on earth is it selfish to do the one single thing we are put on this earth to do?

There was me thinking it was to ride bikes 🙄

mogrim – not true I'm afraid. Female fertility nosedives once they're into their 30's, plus pregancy gets riskier the older the woman is, so time is of the essence.

But I really feel for the OP – I contributed to his first post and he knows my views on termination when in a relationship but it sounds to me that, unless she has a quick change of mind, this relationship is destined to failure. The only possible solution I could suggest is to convince her to put off an abortion until the latest possible time so she has time to consider her options. But at the end of the day, if she really insists losing the child is the only solution then I am afraid you would have to accept her decision.

Although I agree with the original sentiments of this post. I dont agree with this

put off the abortion until the latest possible time.

And I dont see how anyone from either side of the argument, pro-choice/pro-life can.

Surely the later you leave it the more emotionally/physically damaging the procedure will be.

Also the more likely the fetus/child will be able to feel pain or be aware.

Molgrips – sorry squire – that simply would not work in the where we go. Far too top heavy dangerous and cumbersome.

scu98rkr – how can you lay claim to something inside her body? You have zero rights on her body and quite rightly IMO

mogrim – not true I'm afraid. Female fertility nosedives once they're into their 30's, plus pregancy gets riskier the older the woman is, so time is of the essence.

Riskier, but the main risk is over 40. The OPs wife is only 31, maybe 10 years was an optimistic exagerration on my part, but 5 years is perfectly reasonable.

scu98rkr – how can you lay claim to something inside her body? You have zero rights on her body and quite rightly IMO

Zero legal rights, but non-zero moral rights.

but she needs to realise that her decision may have unwanted consequences. Similarly, a woman cannot simply decide to get pregnant without consulting her partner.

Partnerships/marriages are ALL about communication and support. It's a hard decision for sure, but it's one only the woman can really take, it's not the bloke who's pregnant. You can talk about it, but once the decision to either terminate or keep the baby is made, then that's it, no more discussion.

As men we can't just keep banging on (hmmmm) until your partner agrees.

I disagree – tell me the moral basis for you to have rights over her body?

scu98rkr – how can you lay claim to something inside her body? You have zero rights on her body and quite rightly IMO

Im not really talking about rights. Im talking about your statement that is its is 100% her body which is simply not true.

Either the fetus made up of 100% its own material or 50% of mother and 50% father. The genetic data to produce the fetus are from both the father and the mother.

TJ, you don't half spout some crap as absolute certainties just because it's what you believe.

There are a lot of people don't agree with this but they are simply wrong as you are.

Its her body and her right to choose – 100% Morally . legally and ethically.

Legally, absolutely. Morally and ethically, there's no black and white answer so there is no absolute of right and wrong. If it really was that simple then the world would be in one hell of a lot less of a mess generally.

FWIW, I do agree with you that on balance it's her choice but I'm not so narrow minded as to believe that it being my view makes it the only morally and ethically correct one. 🙄

To the OP, as has already been suggested above, weigh it up.

If she has an abortion and you split up as a result at least it's just the two of you affected and there's a good chance you'll get over it and move on with your lives

If she has the baby just to keep you happy (grossly simplified but fundamentally right) and her concerns now aren't just natural fear of the unknown, then you'll be messing up a kid's life which doesn't seem fair.

Only you can really weigh up the likelyhood of each of those outcomes so only you can really decide how to handle it.

FWIW, we definitely didn't have an easy time of it with our son but have never doubted that choosing to have a baby was the right thing.

scu98rkr – Member

Either the fetus made up of 100% its own material or 50% of mother and 50% father. The genetic data to produce the fetus are from both the father and the mother.

The "material" of the foetus is not made up 50/50 of mother and father.

To put it simply, if she decides to have the kid it's my child too. I have legal rights and obligations were that to happen. If you're married, you're committed to a relationship with another person, and to completely ignore his/her views is not (IMO) a moral position to take.

Don't get me wrong: I fully agree that if a woman decides to abort, it's her body and her decision. But I don't agree that she can simply take that decision in a moral vacuum.

The "material" of the foetus is not made up 50/50 of mother and father.

Ok this is true as the ovum is much larger than the sperm but the genetic data to produce the rest of child is approx 50%. And the material that makes up the rest of the child has been processed by the mother first.

The point is its not 100% the mother as TJ states.

Actually the more I think about the this the more I think it is its own life form. I was trying to give a hand to the pro choice sayings it 50% mother 50% father but to be honest I probably think its 100% its self and 0% mother/father.

But I don't agree that she can simply take that decision in a moral vacuum.

No one is I think, suggesting that that's the case. but it is at the end of the day one person's decision to make in decisions about pregnancy. As men we can put forward our opinions, but when it comes down to it, once both of you have had that discussion, and the woman still wants to terminate, then as men, we have to respect that, we can't just keep on at it until the woman changes her mind to what we want.

Molgrips – sorry squire – that simply would not work in the where we go. Far too top heavy dangerous and cumbersome

I wasn't talking to you TJ now was I you dipstick. I was pointing out that backpacking is possible with kids. I'm sure I don't need to point out that activities with kids have to be modified to take them into account, but my point was that you can still do stuff. I'd have to be a right cretin to suggest VDiff alpine routes or whatever with a kid, wouldn't I?

Engage brain first mate.

On topic – the kid is both of yours, born or unborn. Doesn't really matter where its actual cells come from, otherwise I'd partly be the property of Welsh beef farmers.

Fallacious argument. We're not PUT here for a purpose, we just are here

It is not an (insert impressively big word here to show how much cleverer than you I am)argument. I just chose a word that fell into your argumentative (mol)grips. But, put simply, we only exist to reproduce so it cannot be selfish to do so. What other purpose do we (or any other living thing) have on earth, other than to endure as a species?

WackoAK – Member
iain1775 – the op asked for thoughts, not personal insults to be aimed at those people offering advice.

I think if you read you wil find I did offer advise. In a far more constructive and detailed manner and taking into account the OP's particular situation and my own experience of a very similar situation than the people here who are just turning the thread around to be about them and how they personally are too selfish to have kids. Because they clearly have little or no experience of what this person is going througgh and the gravity of the actual problem
Either way, whatever desision is made this is likely to be if not the end of an 11 year relationship then a very defining moment in how that relationship develops and it will emotionally change two people probably beyond their current comprehension
Throwaway comments about selfishness and too many kids in the world already, its her body end of dont really add much to help do they?

scu98rkr – Member

Actually the more I think about the this the more I think it is its own life form. I was trying to give a hand to the pro choice sayings it 50% mother 50% father but to be honest I probably think its 100% its self and 0% mother/father.

Ah – you mean it's a parasite for the first 9 months. Seems like the host has the right to deal with it accordingly then.

Just to give a female perspective on this…

I had a termination many years ago, I was far too young to consider having a kid, not in a stable relationship and had just lost my job. Until very recently I was haunted by that decision. If she is 100% sure that this is the route she wants to take, I would seriously advise she seeks counseling now, as it's not a choice you can change your mind on later down the line.

On the up side I've recently become a mum, to what I consider to be the most amazing baby girl. Yes I had 9 months of being fat and grumpy but she was so worth it (even the 23 hours of labour and emergency C-Section), I still have weight to shift, but it's only to be expected it took 9 months (and large quantities of cake) to get big, it's going to take at least 9 to get back to my size 8 figure , and as for your life being over, well yes, the life you have now will never be the same again, but I've met so many lovely people in the local area all with their own little ones, and if anything my social life has expanded significantly.

Just my 2p's worth

I really hope you two manage to sort things out.

There are a lot of people don't agree with this but they are simply wrong as you are.

Its her body and her right to choose – 100% Morally . legally and ethically.

Men have tried to get court injunctions to prevent their partners having terminations and failed every time.

she does not need your consent to have the termination.

that may be the case but I suspect with that attitude / approach the relationship wont last!
Whilst it may be all her body, relationship is still about the 2 (3) people involved and they all have thoughts opinions and entitlements

MF, we have no purpose.

But I don't agree that she can simply take that decision in a moral vacuum.

No one is I think, suggesting that that's the case.

I think TJ is.

but it is at the end of the day one person's decision to make in decisions about pregnancy. As men we can put forward our opinions, but when it comes down to it, once both of you have had that discussion, and the woman still wants to terminate, then as men, we have to respect that, we can't just keep on at it until the woman changes her mind to what we want.

I don't agree we have to respect it, we have to live with it, and living with it may imply living without her.