It's really not a big deal either way

WTF!…sorry I can not ignore that there are 3 people involved in this….think I'll keep away from this thread from now on

The only possible solution I could suggest is to convince her to put off an abortion until the latest possible time
I find that a horrible thought…after seeing my daughter at her 3 month scan (a still legal termination date) – she was quite clearly a person at that stage….no way should you dither to the full 24 weeks (6 months)…
[Edit] removed my further comment as it's probably too harsh / too real

if you see my reply on his first post on this subject you will see that I am firmly of the same belief as you but this particular case doesn't sound like it would have a happy outcome for mother, father or child should she be pressurised into going through with it. It is terribly sad but I don't see another solution personally.

Have you actually discussed about how things could be when the baby arrives?

For example, you say your wife is the breadwinner. Would that continue? Or would you look after baby? Or would baby go to childminder? Who will deal with these arrangements, your wife?

I'm a mum although they are now adults. The way I see it is that the man's life stays the same, it's the woman who's life completely changes, assuming she would be a stay-at-home mum.

It is not necessarily easy for women to adapt to being at home, post-natal depression, lack of stimulation, boredom, loneliness etc.

Could this be what is worrying her?

The man's life stays the same? Like yeah, right!

Er, yes it does! You get up, go to work, come home.

The mother's is slightly different! She has to adapt.

How are your twins doing?

CG, did you not read the recent stay-at-home dad thread (also started by gnarman, so maybe they have thought about it)? – here

There are actually quite a lot of us on here, but even amongst those who aren't I think your generalisation doesn't stand up these days. Not amongst my friends anyway.

I am not saying the change is as profound as the mother's (in most cases) but it does change – my life has changed entirely in the last year.

And the twins are doing wonderfully thanks – but we could do with a few more unbroken nightzzzzzzz

rightplacerighttime – just had a quick look! Apologies – I didn't realise this was happening 😳

m_f – pleased to hear. 🙂

6/7 weeks ago we'd been apart for 2 weeks or so

Woah . . . That's got my spidey sense tingling!

I've only just noticed this thread and haven't bothered to read much of the responses. As originally stated there are a stack of negatives in the argument. Turn it around, be positive, seek professional advice, her hormones are up the spout at the moment making decision making chaotic.
Do think about the adoption route, it's a positive route and there are plenty of couples for which it's the only solution to have a much wanted child.
Just a thought and it's probably been suggested before. It is life changing and frequently life limiting having rug rats, my husband struggles with it daily and he was the one who wanted 3!

'm a mum although they are now adults. The way I see it is that the man's life stays the same, it's the woman who's life completely changes

what an outdated feminist attitude!
I may still have to go to work but I take as much involvement with my baby as I possibly can and my life has most definately changed (for the better)

Adoption – yes! I have three friends who wouldn't have existed if there had been an easy alternative to adoption at the time (and one has two kids themselves). I also have friends who have adopted two kids and they are all very happy.

The mother and father can both take equal roles if you want it that way. The only thing that the father can't do is directly breastfeed – although he can from a bottle. I know people who have a 50/50 split.

they dont change your life that much, i have a 1 year old and a 5 year old. When our 1st was 1 we went hiking and camping with him in france, just get a decent back pack that can carry kids, we still went to parties till midnight he slept in the buggy, we did huge 20 mile walks with a decent 3 wheel off road buggy. Once he was 9 months he went to nursery so we could both keep our careers. TBH I hated the 1st year of both of them, but after the 1st year it was great, some love the beginning, I didnt but thats me. Saying your life is over is just a guess and not true. If you push yourself to do things life continues. My wife and I have been riding with the kids on tag alongs and kids seats. I could never terminate and TBH I think that is a 50/50 decision, I hate this attitude of "its her body" yes but its baby that belongs to both of you!

One comment on here cracks me up "having kids is selfish" (circa 1st or 2nd page… well you were born and if people didnt have kids the world would stop.

Kids are great fun and your life does not change that much, if you share the responsibility you can both stil enjoy your hobbies, spare time and friends. my 5 year old is great now, helping him learn to read, write, ride bikes, swim etc is great and rewarding + we have met a lot of new friends with kids (over 10 couples) so in fact our social life has increased, we go to theirs and vice versa for BBQ's and if the kids get tired we put them to bed while we carry on drinking….

I was scared at 1st esp with the 2nd one

BUT life is good and new doors have opened

I really feel for you it mus be a hard decision. I think that your Missus needs to talk to someone who has been in her situation. I don't have children however I would'ev thought there would be a significant number of women who have had similar thoughts as you guys.
Okay the decision does need to be made together otherwise it could ruin your relationship, however it is your wife that has to carry the baby so you do need to support her.
With the salaries you 2 are on should be ok, I know people raising kids who earn a lot less, it's about being sensible and as already mentioned why spend £1000 on a pushchair and £4000 on furniture when it won't last long.

good luck on this as only you 2 can decide hoep it works out for the best

TandemJeremy – Member
Come on Gnarman – its not possible – we will be walking 20+ miles camping out for 2 nights and carrying all our own kit – no child under about 12 could do that.

TJ – I have an 8yr old daughter who would cope with your camping trip fairly easily. she's been doing 4-5hr walks since pre-school with her mother and has been on camping trips regularly since birth (I also have a 12yr old and another 8yr old who would hate every minute of it, as would I for that matter)

Why do you always feel the need to comment about stuff you have no clue about?

OP – good luck! been in your situation fairly recently, and luckily (for me) my partner went through with the birth and I'm a dad once again to a lovely 7mth old. but for me it had to be her choice.

I've not read any of the posts since (only the OP's first post).

I don't think you should bring a life into the world against your partners wishes.

Give her alot of support but don't press your desires on her. This must be a awfully hard time for your other half at the moment.

Give her alot of support but don't press your desires on her. This must be a awfully hard time for your other half at the moment.

Why shouldn't he have a say? Agree it must be hard for her as well, but what about him, doesn't sound like a picnic for Gnar does it?? Don't his feelings and wishes count?

So you think she should be pressured into keeping the baby?

not pressured… though of course that's the way it's going to feel I guess… but his views are important and need to be considered in the equation, along with any possible consequences of either choice… he's said he's not sure if he will be able to be 'happy' or 'move on' if the pregnancy is terminated, which may mean the end of the relationship… needs to be considered doesn't it?

"One of her negatives for having the baby is that I'll leave her and she'll be stuck with it "

So she does not have faith in you as a person or belief in your willingness to stick with her, if things get rough she thinks you will dump her with the kid and walk off. I wonder why she thinks you are unreliable when you have only told her you might well leave her if she does not do what you want her to do?

If you can walk away from the most important person in your life (your partner) you can easy dump a kid – or is your wife to see her future as always the 'third person' and the kid is what you really want, not her? How does it feel I wonder to suddenly see yourself as just a brood mare?

Gee if I was her (and to be fair I have not read this extended post fully, so I might be way off line with some of this) I would be running for the door as she does not appear to have a reliable partner. Either she is obsessively insecure or you have given her reason in the past to see you as selfish, indeed you have already told her you care more about an unborn child than you do about her – if you truely loved her above yourself, you know you would stick with her whatever happens.

Sounds like a dying relationship to me and the issue of a child has just highlighted that your relationship is heading for the rocks, kid or no kid.

Its not right to have a kid for 'glue' in a failing relationship.

Well… that's a little harsh I think. But, you're right in that I do feel that her current position shows 'she does not have faith in me as a person or belief in my willingness to stick with her' which is frankly not true and unfair. But if that's the way she feels, then why are we together?

I haven't told her I will leave if she has a termination… what I've said is that I don't agree with it, I won't be happy with it (in the immediate term) and I don't know if I will be able to reconcile myself with it in the longer term… so there's a risk there that if I can't, then how can we go on together? She has to consider this yes? Would it be fair of me to keep my thoughts to myself, just support her through it and then turn around after the fact and say, sorry but I can't be happy with the decision you made and I don't think we can last?

Anyhoo… was a frickin shit night last night, long discussions and arguing, no sleep for either of us and no movement from either of us in our opinions…

I have issues with depression and general 'laziness' and motivation, it's the reason I don't have a degree and haven't made much of my life thus far, just coasted along with minimal effort or care. She knows this and I guess it is part of the reason that she doesn't think I will be 'stable' enough to rely upon… I think I will be, I think I'll have to be, but I'm not going to get the chance (this time at least it seems).

I'm angry and upset that we can't work this out, I don't want our relationship to end, but some of the things she's saying just make me realise that we might not actually be right for each other… which sucks 🙁

Has she always said she doesn't want children or is this all out of the blue?

In all honesty, neither of us have ever had a 100% firm position on having kids or not… in general though, we both sit/sat more on the 'no kids' side of the fence. And as I've said, if we weren't pregnant right now, I wouldn't be saying, 'Let's have a kid'… but, we are pregnant now and I feel strongly that it's wrong to not take up the responsibility… and therein lies the problem 🙁 She feels strongly that it's perfectly fine to terminate this pregnancy, for what I consider to be pretty superficial and easily overcome reasons…

I suggested last night that she wait for the first scan (only 3 or so weeks away) and to then make a decision once we've seen it, maybe she'll feel a connection once it's more real? She says that's not going to happen, she doesn't want to see it… fair enough I guess, but why? Because she'll be faced with the reality of what she wants to do?

does she know you have posted this here and are discussing it with complete strangers?

Would it be a good or bad idea for her to read this?

Seems there are strong points made for each side of the debate and quite a balanced view. She may get something from it even if it is just a sense of how strongly you feel and how messed up your mind is at the moment.
On other hand she may take offence at your personal issues being dragged round the internet

For me the fact that you have opened up your feelings on here so much speaks volumes about what a mess you are in at the moment

she read it through this morning before going to work… along with my other 2 threads prior to this one. didn't seem to make an impact, but maybe it's given her something to think about today, who knows. And everything I've said on here I've said to her as well…

We don't have enough money saved, I'll get fat, 9 months of hell & 20 years of looking after it, my life is over, I don't want to change my life, I'm happy the way things are etc etc… all valid concerns, but not really an argument to terminate a pregnancy? Are these just the normal fears and worries every woman goes through, and if I'm honest, the same thoughts that I'm having as well?

Yes, speaking as a pregnant woman, these are all totally normal fears and worries. I don't think there can be a single person who has not gone through a pregnancy and not thought these at some point.

I'm always worrying about how we'll cope for money, but we will, as long as you can pay your food, bills, mortgage, anything on top is an extra.

It doesn't have to be 9 months of hell at all. For me, the first 7 weeks were fine, the next 3-4 a bit crap, but not awful, and since then I've been feeling great. I'm still riding, going to the gym, earlier this week we walked up Crinkle Crags & Bow Fell in the lakes, which isn't exactly an easy stroll, we're about to go bivvying.

I've not got fat – yes I have put on over a stone, but I'm still a size 6-8, it's all at the front, from the back I look no different at all.

Obviously life changes, but it's not over, it's different. We were very happy with the way things were, we had a great life, one of the reasons we've been married nearly 9 years and only just getting round to having a baby – I'll be 36 when it's born. But with all my fears and worries, the times I have got up in the night for the loo and wondered what the hell we are doing, I have never, ever wanted to change things, and I suppose that's the difference.

I don't really know what to suggest, other than counselling to see if that helps her / you both come to a decision you can all live with.

does she know you have posted this here and are discussing it with complete strangers?

This doesn't really matter unless….

Would it be a good or bad idea for her to read this?

…she reads it. Which (IMHO) could do no good and might be bad.

Seems there are strong points made for each side of the debate and quite a balanced view. She may get something from it even if it is just a sense of how strongly you feel and how messed up your mind is at the moment.

There are no strong points on either side because (IMHO) it's not something you can rationalise (although it's funny how many of the women who have commented seem to be suggesting that it can be 😐 ?)

And I don't think there's any evidence that your mind is "messed up" – that kind of suggests that you should be able to see a clear way ahead, but maybe you won't.

On other hand she may take offence at your personal issues being dragged round the internet

She might. Which is why you should keep it to yourself… Oh, whoops!

For me the fact that you have opened up your feelings on here so much speaks volumes about what a mess you are in at the moment

Don't get too hung up about how you feel. In the words of St Anna Rayburn "you can only do what you can do"

I've had a slight change of mind on this..

mrsflash mrs hora's 36 now. She is permanently shattered but loving it. I must admit with every day hes looking more likeable than the last.

I will readily admit that when I found out when she was pregnant (just come back from a great ride over Walna Scar)….and really looking forward to my beers, roast dinner and WRC on the TV that I sat there stunned ON THE CARPET for over an hour holding the result. Shell-shocked, confused and scared.

How long has it been OP? Its taken me over 10months to actually like whats happened.

I can see her point of view if she is frightened that you won't be able to pull your weight due to your lack of motivation etc etc, although having a child may give you some purpose in life and the kick up the arse you need. Perhaps this issue like you say has raised questions about your relationship and where its going, and if your right for each other, if this is the case then bringing a child into the equation is definitely a bad idea.

On the face of it, this might not seem so helpful: if you can, make the decision you're both happy with before the twelve week scan.

I can't imagine how you make a decision like this after that scan without serious future complications…

Avoid confrontation and arguing. Step back from a hot situation then talk later.

All the best. No one can offer definitive advice. For instance I want to give you TWO completely different views on this.

I would still suggest that she has negativity issues. By that I mean she's looking for the negative in everything ie the pregnancy will be crap, you'll leave her, 20 years will be miserable etc. It's clear that for the majority of people those things are not the case, but she seems to think the worst.

She sounds an awful lot like my Mrs when she's in one of her dark holes. Perhaps she's suffering a bit from depression? Could maybe due to the shock of the BFP, as they say on mumsnet. I think that means Blue for Pregnant.

Big Fat Positive.

er, I think 😉