binners – Member

If I lived in Saaaaaaarf Laaaaaaaaandan I’d be asking questions like: just how accurate are surface to air missiles? What percentage of them hit their intended target? And what happens to the ones that miss?

Anyone know?

They are accurate, a trained operator can hit a large model aircraft flying head on

the missiles are operator guided and use the principles of SALOSBR (IIRC). With HVM the engagement time is so short (about 10-12secs to max range) that prelaunch tracking is key to accuracy. It is easier to correct with old slower Javelin system which took around 30 secs to max range.

they will probably have strict arc’s of fire and airspace control via ADKIS (??) is they can get it work or whatever they have replaced it with. I can’t remember if the missile self destructs if it loses the beam or not

if they had airlifted the tracked HVM its like playing space invaders

the missiles are safe in the context of the flats, they are designed to survive squaddies on a battlefield

I feel unhappy about the thought of missiles in built up areas. If an aerial conveyance is shot down, the bits will fall on actual people. Better to put a defended circumference further out into the countryside surely, where debris can fall into fields?

air defence works in a series of layers, as the threat moves it gets tackled by the relevant resource for that chunk of airspace

hvm is a point defence system (based on a FGA/pop-up helo threat), the point in this case is the stadium. The final layer would be GPMG’s but I imagine they drew the line through spraying 50 round bursts of 7.62 1 in 1 over the Olympic park

So why aren’t they on top of a big building at Canary Wharf?

You mean the secret ones that everyone knows about because they’ve been on the BBC? These ones
Lexington Building, Fairfield Road, Bow, Tower Hamlets – high-velocity missile
Fred Wigg Tower, Montague Road Estate, Waltham Forest – high-velocity missile
Blackheath Common, Blackheath (Lewisham/Greenwich) – rapier
William Girling Reservoir, Lea Valley Reservoir Chain, Enfield – rapier
Oxleas Meadow, Shooters Hill, Greenwich/Woolwich – rapier
Barn Hill, Netherhouse Farm, Epping Forest – rapier

No-one will ever link any airborne incident with these, rgardless of whether they get fired or not, will they?

which means that anyone with internet access and a map and a few minutes to stand in the planned locations could work out what the arcs for the missiles are

So why aren’t they on top of a big building at Canary Wharf?

too far out probably, point air defence sticks close to the potential target and thus creates a GDA, the Navy and Air Force will be covering that airspace

Isn’t there the slightest possibility of a Greenham Common scenario here- ie, a spoof? The real defences are located in completely different locations and these are either tokens or complete dummies to mask the fact and to focus attention on the wrong areas.

oo far out probably, point air defence sticks close to the potential target and thus creates a GDA, the Navy and Air Force will be covering that airspace

same distance according to google
nothing to do with big business of course

same distance according to google
nothing to do with big business of course

As the two locations are a considerable distance apart they can’t be compared, 100m makes a difference when siting hvm detachments according to google.

I imagine the large warship in the Thames makes up for the lack of HVM on Canary Wharf, either that or they are not publishing that location for security reasons.

But don’t let a proper air defence plan get in the way of some class war rhetoric

Isn’t there the slightest possibility of a Greenham Common scenario here- ie, a spoof? The real defences are located in completely different locations and these are either tokens or complete dummies to mask the fact and to focus attention on the wrong areas.

Anyone would think it took 6-8 hvm detachments to create an effective GDA rather than the two published locations