Having changed jobs and the prospect of re-location (40-odd miles) have now realised by staying put, the cost of not moving will buy VW Camper – probably early Bay. Just 2 of us with dogs.

Have owned / restored classic cars in the past but still thinking of options:

T2 Solid vehicle bodily/mechanically and go for complete new interior

Cop-out and go for a water-cooled Mexican job?

Not really interested in a T4/T5

Thinking of a 3-4 week tour of the Western Isles next summer and maybe a trip to Nordkapp at some point.

do you have a bottemless pit of money? If not don’t buy a T2 camper. From Experience. Mines had about £20k thrown at it over the last 15 years and its still barely worked…

Mines had about £20k thrown at it over the last 15 years and its still barely worked…

=

Cop-out and go for a water-cooled Mexican job?

2 unconnected friends of mine have both bought T2’s in the last year. One has spent thousands on it, and hundreds of hours bringing it back to a usable (it had a MOT!) condition and loves it, but still regularly returns on the back of a trailer. The other has spent thousands on his, and hundreds of hours, and has managed to just about get it through MOT, but has now had to rip out all the internals because of water damage and is continuing on he project which will probably last another 12 months or so.
We’ve driven down to Italy and back twice in our T5, errr…. that’s it really. Sits at 80mph, goes up and down Alpine passes, has been very reliable in the 12,000 miles we’ve done in it in the last 12 months.

I have very unhappy memories of ‘holidaying’ in a mate’s T2 many years ago. Why anybody would put themselves through the torture of owning one of these pieces of junk, is beyond me. Even more insane when you consider just how much better contemporary vehicles are.

I remember when he got rid of the wretched thing (after spending a silly amount of money on it), and got something decent. I think his first words regarding it were ‘Oh, it’s got a heater’. 😆

Then there was another friend’s shitty splitty. It once reached the dizzying speed of 40mph on the M1. We could only just about make out the speed because of the extreme vibration.

Late bay will get you 2L motor (mine runs twin 40’s) and decent disc brakes. These things help with what is a pretty under powered machine. I’ve taken mine over most of the lakeland passes without issue..

Rust is the killer, the mechanics will need to be well fettled and any old bodgery undone, then on they are simple vehicles.

After years of owning plenty of aircooled VW’s over the years including a bay window camper, Type 3s, Bettles etc, don’t do it unless you won the lotto recently. Look good, the reality is somewhat different.

Having owned a few old VWs I would say the main questions to answer before buying an early bay are:
Are you mechanically competent?
And are you inclined to do your own servicing/maintenance?

Air cooled VW servicing is relatively simple but needs to be done frequently compared to a modern car (3000miles), they are also pretty simple so if anything does go wrong then they are pretty easy to diagnose/fix if a few spares are taken along with you but if you want to rely on a garage to keep it running then I’d say it probably isn’t a good idea.

Condition of the bodywork is the main thing to worry about when buying, nearly all UK buses will have had some(lots!) of rust repairs and people don’t seem to want to pay for the work to be done properly (or don’t know any better).
So typically a LHD US import or a more expensive RHD Oz import would be the way to go, any mechanical shortcomings can be relatively cheaply fixed/replaced as parts are plentiful.

Having said all that….
It just so happens that my 72 UK Dormobile is for sale via Graham at MEB:
Early bay forum
It’s never broken down on me in the 10 years I’ve owned it 😉
It’s been modified a bit so maybe not what you are after, but you’ll struggle to find another UK RHD that’s never been welded before!

Spend some time on the Earlybay forum, they’re a really friendly bunch and have a chat to people like Graham about what owning one entails.
Cheers
Matt.

Just buy one. I had one and loved it and I wish I’d never sold it. You’ll probably spend about the same as a nearly new family saloon on it but unlike modem stuff, it won’t depreciate. Parts are easy to get and they’re a doddle to work on.
Remember they aren’t fast though. So don’t try cruising at 75 on the motorway. 55-60 is more like it. There’s no comparison to any modern vehicle IMO but I felt like a king driving mine. I’d buy another in a heartbeat and Mrs PP is under no illusion that if I ever spot KPL 712K up for sale, I’ll be buying it back.

Friend of ours (who we go camping with) has an early 1970s aircooled VW Camper.
She has thrown literally thousands at it, however it is still a shed.
Latest purchase (at £3k) was a totally brand new, hand-built engine.

I could/would find much better options if it were my money…

However, another friend of ours has just started importing ‘classic’ cars from South Africa. The twin-cab T2 pick-up he had a few months back looked 3 years old, not 40.

Before you buy one, consider renting one for a weekend (plenty of places do them).. that way you’ll know if it’s actually for you.

Latest purchase (at £3k) was a totally brand new, hand-built engine.

This is why you need to be mechanically minded. It’s fairly easy to build your own engine. I can get the engine out in 45 mins with a trolley jack and a couple of spammers and screwdrivers. A top end rebuild (pistons and barrels) is easy peasy. I could have it back together and running in half a day I reckon.

Last 2 weekends I have been in the van classic VW owners have come and had a look at my Cali and both said they wished they had one – space, practicality, efficiency. I look at theirs and think they are cool but utterly impractical and unsafe! However, horses for courses. Depends what you want to do, use it or work on it from the sounds of it.

To be honest, it is no different to other ‘scenes’ like Minis or old Landrovers.

You pay through the nose for everything, and still end up with a fairly unreliable old dog.

However, I’d buy a early coil-sprung 110 Landrover tomorrow if I had the cash!

Depends what you want to do, use it or work on it from the sounds of it.

It’s definitely a lifestyle choice, I enjoyed working on mine! It was part of the fun of owning it.

I’ve had mine about 20 years now, 76 Moonraker, peanuts to buy back then. It’s worth more than I’ve spent on it over the years but I’ve been lucky with about 2 failed MOTs in that time – leaking exhaust and front beam needed welding, never broken down, been to Spain and more recently the south of France, but I’ve looked after it. Bodywork is starting to go again which is a pain as I’ve lost the enthusiasm to keep on filling and painting and don’t want to pay out again on bodywork. This is probably the biggest thing, last time I had bodywork done it was expensive and I think anyone that does that kind of work knows how to charge for it too! If I had the sort of money that would get a good one today I wouldn’t, I’d get a good T4 or T5. But, I still enjoy driving it, something about it, it’s relaxing.

Bought my VW T4 in 2008, for £5k….made do with it as it was, (ply-lined with carpet) put a Ikea futon in it, stacked surf boards in it, wife and I surfed our butts off for the next 4 years with every weekend opportunity…best years of our life. Last year, wife says she’s not going away in it until we make it more “comfortable” so I consequently invested a further £5k in it and converted it into a campervan properly.

Going into the paintshop next week for a £2k respray.

Probably worth £7-£8k now arguably once done.

Best thing I’ve ever bought.

I have a friend who is selling a 1964 Commer van with a mid mounted Rover V8 engine and jag rear axle. Cherry bomb exhausts sound awesome!

Its going for an MoT on Thursday this week and will be advertised once / if it goes through.

Not that good on fuel though.

My wife has been badgering me for about 10 years to get a campervan.

We’ve hired Danbury T2s a half dozen times. They’re very characterful, but I really didn’t fancy actually owning one. Despite being quite new vehicles if you get a Brazilian one, they really are terrible to drive (by modern standards) and I’d seriously hesitate before driving one on a trip where there would be big consequences of a breakdown.

The real tease is that it costs pretty much the same to buy a Danbury conversion on a 2-3 year old T5 as it does to buy a used Brazilian T2… which is exactly what we did last week!

I’ve got a T6 California Ocean

All I do is pat it and pet it and call it George.

They truly are lovely.

I used to work with a guy who had a T2. In the 5 years I worked with him he went away in it 3-4 times a year. In that time he NEVER reached his destination, he either spent the time waiting for a garage on route to fix it before returning home, or just coming back on an RAC low loader.

I had a look at the cost to replace my t5.1 Cali – £64k ! Holy sh1t.

Had our ’72 Bay for a few years. It had a bare metal ‘resto’ before we bought it by a well respected firm in the Midlands, thousands spent on the running gear and it was still shit.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved it at the time and forgave it all its problems but they aren’t a camper they are a lifestyle accessory. The air cooled scene has that certain thing that the T4/5 boys are desperate to emulate but can’t quite catch as they try too hard but at least the T4/5 is a useable, fairly reliable vehicle and actually some use as a camper.
I’ve had both, got a caravan now so I have a big double bed, sink, cooker with oven, fridge and fully equipped bathroom. It gets nice and warm in the winter, and even with all that being towed by a Landrover its still quicker on the road, more reliable and cheaper than the Bay ever was…

We’ve umm’d and aaah’d about an aircooled VW van for about 17/18 years and took the plunge nearly 2 years back… by buying a T5 after the only benefit of an aircooled van was the ‘cool’ factor.

I can’t recommend the water cooled T2, I’ve seen a few up close and they’re just not the real thing.

Have a look at a T3 Westfalia, I’ve had 3 of them, they’re brilliant. If there was just two of us I’d LOVE another one. Compared to the T2 I had a go in it was a world away in terms of performance, useable space and enjoyment.

Brickwerks forum – The Brickyard will fill you with knowledge.

I used to work with a guy who had a T2. In the 5 years I worked with him he went away in it 3-4 times a year. In that time he NEVER reached his destination, he either spent the time waiting for a garage on route to fix it before returning home, or just coming back on an RAC low loader.

I remember going to Run to the Sun in the late ’90s. The A30 was one long lay-by for broken-down air-cooled ‘dubs…

Loved mine but we out grew it and it was rotting quite badly had to rip out the wooden interior to have all wheel arches replaced driving to the welders he had popped out I drove homeI felt out of love with it banged it on eBay an a week later it left on a low loader, I shed a tear 🙁
[url=https://flic.kr/p/NRrWD]Heading out of Glenbrittle[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/NGKDJ]Bedtime with a iview[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr
New van will be taking us around europe for 3 weeks soon, the old van would have not done that!
[url=https://flic.kr/p/Fg8ZNT]Untitled[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr

Cop-out and go for a water-cooled Mexican job?

Nooooooo. Worst of both worlds. I really cannot understand why anyone would buy one of the newbuild bays. They’re just utterly tragic. They are just as shit as the original decades old bays, but with none of the [perceived] “cool”.

For people who are trying just a little bit too hard.

Mechanics doesn’t bother me – I had a 1939 Citroen which was probably more complicated! Just canvassing views and new to go and look / test drive a few – probably steering towards an Aussie RHD with 2 litre engine.

I know nothing about VW (I’m more about old Land-Rovers) but like old Land-Rovers, if you want an old VW then a new one probably won’t hit the spot. Yes, newer ones are going to be technically better, but that’s not necessarily what it’s about.

Most of the horror stories I’ve heard are from people who pay others to fix their cars and/or expect old cars to drive like new ones – doesn’t sound like you’re one of them.

The old campers are mighty expensive, but then they are unlikely to drop in value so if you sold it you’d get your money back. Plenty people drop £50k plus on shiny new motors that’ll be next to worthless in 10-15 years.

Please don’t come to the Western Isles our roads are presently almost gridlocked with T2 , T2.5’s T4’s & T5’s & Satans spawn the Toyota Hiace all lumbaring around @ 35 mph with no apparent shame . 😡

Please use passing places to allow overtaking , You #*!ers !!

Don’t get me started on the cyclist’s 😆

2 years ago much searching and adjusted budgets we picked up a T25 Westy Joker. Imported from Germany 6 years ago it had 190k kms. Now got 203k but has taken us all over Europe twice and done a stack of weekend trips round the UK. Love it to bits, never missed a beat. Heading up to Inverness in August for a wedding. Been pretty good for biking day trips as well

I had a few T2s when I was younger. Spent all of my student grant on them. Went on round Europe trips in them in summer with no problems with 4 of us crammed in somehow. Can’t imagine going back to one now as they just look tiny (at the time it felt like I was driving a bus) even our current 7.5m long camper feels tight with six people inside. If you really want to be part of the dub scene what about a T3. It was the last van I had at the time and the step up in tech was amazing(heating and everything…I used to have to put on the cooker in one of my vans while driving to stop the windows from freezing in winter….absolute madness looking back now) plus mine was still air cooled for that authentic sound.

I’ve had quite a few aircooled VWs over the years and perhaps i’ve been lucky but only problem I’ve had was a split push rod tube on the M40, bodged it with a coke can and 2 Jubilee clips and got to Manchester, back to Northampton and on to Weymouth.

If i was buying now I’d buy the best unrestored Van i could find, they’re still out there and original patina is “cool”. Restorations are always a gamble as you never really know whats under the shiny paint. I’ve seen a fair few van which look great and then a few years later look like sheds.

Also bays from the late 60’s early 70’s fare better and rust less than mid 70’s onward.

Engines used to be almost disposable and finding a replacement was never hard, but not so easy now. New engines are needed (or a rebuild) if you have a lot of end float (play in the big pulley wheel). Most other engine repairs can be done with a haynes manual and a basic toolkit. Servicing is easy and can be done in an hour or so. Engine out in a T2 is really easy, 4 bolts, seal off the fuel hose and disconnect the acceleator cable, coil feed and generator//alternator feed. Trolley jack under the engine, take off the rear valance and then pull the engine off the gearbox.

Make sure you service regularly, replace fuel hoses and get rid of any crappy plastic fuel filters in the engine bay and you should have a fairly reliable engine. They will drop oil, but the engine shouldn’t be coated, but if they are, a weekend taking the engine out and doing a topmend rebuild and replacing all the gaskets would fix it.

VW flat 4’s are a reliable engine if looked after, they can be moderately tuned with no effect on reliability and as long as you don’t try and drive everywhere at 75mph will be ok,

If you buy a split screen, try and get one thats had a straight axle conversion as the reduction boxes on the stardard axles will limit you to 50mph,

I’d avoid anything thats been converted to watercooled.

Lastly, “official” conversions (westfalia, dormobile, moonraker etc) will hold better value than a homebrew, but if done well a honebrew might suit your needs better.

Never had a bay but I did move to Spain (with all my worldly possessions inside) in an aircooled T25. It topped out at 80kmh, the limit for HGVs is 90, and they aren’t allowed to overtake on some highways. So they sit on your bumper trying to bully you out of the way. Aside from that , I’d have another but maybe a later diesel.

Depends what you want from it – if you enjoy tinkering with a vehicle that always has something wrong with it or always needs something doing, have access to a second vehicle for day to day stuff, and you enjoy the journey and driving a vehicle with ‘character’ just as much as being at your actual holiday destination (because it will take a while to get anywhere) then buy a SS or T2.

If you would like to know that you’re actually going to get to the destination quickly and in comfort, and it’s more about what a van enables you to do with your leisure time (rather than the actual van itself) then buy a T4 or T5.

Always wondered about the safety thing with SS’s and T2’s. Surely any sort of frontal impact wouldn’t end very well?

Always wondered about the safety thing with SS’s and T2’s. Surely any sort of frontal impact wouldn’t end very well?

I doubt it would concearn you….
I drove one around Oz for a month, felt worse to drive than any van I’d driven, slow, drank oil, only went a sensible speed at night and yes, the prospect of losing your legs which resided in the crumple zone puts me right off especially as the brakes were of the era that the highway code stopping distances were written.

It’s truly a scene/midlife crisis/lifestyle choice and the duties and taxes for that apply.

There are far better non VW modern options that will get you to your destiation on time and alive with all the options you need, probably with loads more space and much more comfort.

I had a T2, it took ALL my spare cash plus a bit. If I go camping now it’s with my estate car and my longboard goes inside. Peace of mind, better speed and economy and I prefer the fresh air of a tent to the inside of a van. Since getting rid we’ve had countless trips to different countries (currently in Seville) which cost less than getting a T2 to Calais. Perhaps you should hire one just to see, they’re really not that great. Too many people on here seem to have had similar experiences. If you’re still happy to throw money away, could I forward my bank details?

OK, Bill – give me your bank details and I’ll send over some cash in Russian Roubles 😉

Plenty to think about…probably be financed by selling some shares before the economy tanks 😯

I seem to be the exception to the rule here having a relaiable T2. I’m sure there’s plenty of owners who have reliable, looked after vans. There used to be a group of us that used to go to the shows, Santa Pod, Run to the Sun etc with no problems. I think you get problems when the van has many owners who buy them because they want to get into the ‘scene’ or have a camper for a year and do zero maintenance, then sell it on to someone else who does zero maintenance.

dovebiker – I might be selling mine soon as we don’t use it enough. Passed MOT a few months ago, tax free next year, good engine, original interior, reliable etc. Bodywork bubbling up in a few places but nothing that can’t be done yourself if you have the time. I’m in the south of the UK, let me know if of any interest and I can give you more info?

Here it is about 4 years ago in a campsite in the middle of France 🙂