Is there anything in it?

Mercian Lugless Pro in 631OS is about £924

Bob Jackson Olympus Road fillet brazed in 853 is about £629

Actually the Mercian is more if you spec vertical dropouts.

£300 is a lot of money, and I guess 853 is an upgrade over the 631OS.

neither.
rourke.
(if you want a proper racing frame)
🙂

I take it this is for a custom build? Is the service the same? ie do you go to their place and get measured on a jig rather than just send in a sheet with your various measurements on?.I tbink being set up properly on a jig is the best way to make sure your frame fits you . I know Argos do this but havent looked at the builders you mention.

No the Mercian and Bob Jackson are only custom spec.
Thing is I know what I need size wise and both offer that without custom fitting.
I have been measured up in the past many times, I’m basically a 53c-t and 53.5 c-c top tube.
Modern equipment has changed things a bit, but in my favour.

Rourke here too 8)

Ricky Feather in York

In all seriousness? is there any real differnces in quality between the two. If you take the same geometry, same tubeset, same method of contruction would one actually be that different you’d notice.

I am looking at the Rourke, they fall in between price wise.

Ricky Feather. They look good Ben, but the site hopeless for a buyer. And TBH I don’t want to pay extra for little artistic signatures.
Have tried to contact him though.

Not really directly answering your question (I’ve not ridden a Bob Jackson), but I’ve had my Mercian frame half my life (21 years) and I wouldn’t part with it. It’s one of their traditional lugged frames (King of Mercia), originally built as a tourer with cantis and MTB transmission, then in 2006 I had it altered to fit new road parts. Quality of build and finish can’t be faulted – absolutely superb. Service from Mercian when I’ve needed it (bent the original pair of forks in a crash, then all the alterations in 2006) has been excellent. Not sure if it’s the “best” frame for the price for all uses (an off-the-shelf modern carbon or ally frame would certainly be stiffer), but I’d argue that you can’t get much “nicer”.

if you want a race bike Brian and his son will give you a race bike that fits and rides well, it’s what they have been doing for years.
if you want a retro lugged quill stemmed 531 heavy retro noodle look elsewhere.
some of the new wave of builders do some lovely looking stuff but when it comes to experience of speccing tubesets for individuals and designing a frame that you know will work the lack of experience would put me off.
i want the 5000th race frame you build and all the experience that comes with it not the 15th.

TBF Jackson and Mercian have been knocking out race frames for over half a century each
I’m certainly not after anything with a 1″ head tube let alone quill. It will be 11/8″ but still standard, and it’ll be fillet brazed not lugged.
It’s also only going to see me ending my road racing, then it’s going to be my ‘gentlemens racer’, hate that phrase though!

They’re all just steel frames, never mind all that artisan craftsmanship feel the quality and look at the horny handed sons of toil hard at work cobblers. My mate built his last steel frame in his kitchen, it’s not magic, it’s just sticking a few bits of metal tube together.

I’d just buy an off the peg frame in a metal I liked and get the thing ridden.

Before the cry of ‘You are a philistine, you don’t understand the beauty of a well crafted blah blah’, I’ve ridden steel, I rode for the shop team of a frame builder, I’ve seen at first hand how the frames were made, I’ve seen new tubes popped in in a lunch hour, and so on, and given that when we started riding the choice was steel or walking, the current veneration of steel is a little bemusing.

What will be interesting is seeing if I’m any better or worse in next seasons LVRC. I expect it to be neither.

Anyway it’s all academic if the insurers don’t cough up, and I’ll be press ganging your old frame into race duties.

I’ve got….. and bear with me on this one… the last steel frame I raced on, it’s a custom Rourke in 753, but it’s got a 1 inch steerer. I gave it to a mate of mine for a commuter build, but he’s gone away for a year. If you struggle too much I could attempt to sweet talk him into borrowing it for the winter at least.

Hang on a minute. Your not the Devil are you and about to hit me with a contract saying you own my soul now are you.
If so…
Have you got a spare car and a house in Spain so I can get some nice winter training in 🙂

Nah, I’m like a magpie with a small nest; got lots of stuff, but tend to keep it rotating round and round!

It was sat in my garage like the other frame and he was moaning on about getting a steel frame and single speeding it, so I gave him that. He’s put a Brooks on it and other abominations, but all that could be stripped off. It’s a nice frame, but needs a respray unless you only ride it in the dark.

Ooooh yes; get yourself to Manchester when the bike jumble is on at the velodrome; you’d get any number of steel frames before the fixy crowd get their jeans on.

Enigma selling off one of their 53cm 2011 Elite models for £750 and you get to choose the colour you want it in.

They’re all just steel frames, never mind all that artisan craftsmanship feel the quality and look at the horny handed sons of toil hard at work cobblers. My mate built his last steel frame in his kitchen, it’s not magic, it’s just sticking a few bits of metal tube together.

I’d just buy an off the peg frame in a metal I liked and get the thing ridden.

Before the cry of ‘You are a philistine, you don’t understand the beauty of a well crafted blah blah’, I’ve ridden steel, I rode for the shop team of a frame builder, I’ve seen at first hand how the frames were made, I’ve seen new tubes popped in in a lunch hour, and so on, and given that when we started riding the choice was steel or walking, the current veneration of steel is a little bemusing.

nobody is questioning the ease of construction (although it’s easy for the unskilled to cock up joining thin walled tubing) but the skill of framebuilding lies in understanding what tubes work for the intended use.
a friend races on a rourke and the stays are large triangulated deda-eom and has a large o/d downtube etc all chosen to do a job.

it’s the veneration of old lugged stovepipe i feel is a bit odd, modern thin walled oversise steel is a viable alternative to the other materials available.

it’s the veneration of old lugged stovepipe i feel is a bit odd, modern thin walled oversise steel is a viable alternative to the other materials available.

I agree wholeheartedly, and yes, it’s easy to cock up, but it’s not that difficult to get right either. 🙂

I will confess to actually liking the look of and the ownership of steel frames.
I was talking to some of the Corley guys today, and two things came up. One that steel frames are popping up on the circuits and the more debatable subject of doing well on a frame ‘you like’ as oppossed to what is meant to be the best ❓
Does that make sense 😐

I think frame material is not that important, nor is weight, and you can race on what ever you want to. If I ever race again ( 🙄 ) I would do it on an alu frame rather than carbon so it can chucked in the car without a second thought.

Blimey – seem to have touched a nerve by admitting I like my old lugged frame 😯

It was a very nice frame when I bought it and is still the same now. Perhaps it’s not quite as light or stiff as a more modern design, but it’s hardly rubbish. On the other hand, keep hating it… it’s quite fun to overtake people on fat carbon exotica on my “grandad’s bike” up the hill on the way home from work 🙂

Seriously though, if I was buying a new pure race frame I’d probably go for something less traditional. I was really only meaning to relate my good experiences with Mercian as a company, not suggesting my actual frame would be ideal for the OP.

i looked at them recently

and got a measure up and ordered a rourke frame last week

Brian himself was more than helpful and spent a good few hours checking things I wanted for the bike and altering and adjusting my existing bike to suit me more

now counting down the 22 week wait !