My Doc has just told me he may not sign a certificate saying he’s examined me and “found no contraindications” for running a marathon…he’s checking with his defence union as he’s been told not to certify people as fit for events, in case they die etc.

WTF? If he says no what can I do? It’s a prerequisite, and requires to be stamped 🙁

Go to another doctor – he is being a clown.

Well he is a dick, maybe I’ll try my regular doc.

And they want to charge me FFS.

Change GP

Do you not think its stupid that you need a medical certificate in the first place?

We just forged ours (we ran the Paris Marathon last year).

Well if you died you could sue him.

My GP signed mine for the Paris one. Didn’t charge me for it. He’s a runner too which maybe helped but I don’t recall him having any issues with signing it.

Funkydunc – yes

DG this guy chatted about his marathon experiences too, he’s a miserable **** tho.

Geoffj 😛

He’s just confirmed he won’t sign…forgery looking attractive..Dr Bones McCoy?

Send him a letter stating that you yourself have “found no contraindications” to running but defer to his greater medical knowledge, and therefore will refrain from running.
However, you hold him personally responsible for any future ailments or complications due to avoiding exercise, which you had previously believed to be beneficial to your health.
He’ll change his tune 😈

edit : Or change GP

cynic-al – Member
Well he is a dick,

Avoid the vet – go see a GP.

i’ve always forged mine – no body’s gonna check, are they? (mebbe helps that they’ve all been events in foreign countries, so harder for them to check)

I’d be stuffed if I had to get one of those forms.

Forgery looks attractive…

yeah, what a clown. he signs al off who then dies of some previously unknown arrhymmia or pops an aneurysm in his head. nect thing he knows he got blubbing relatives trying to sue him and worse yet, vituperation on stw.

to me it seems like the organisation is being unclear in its medical criteria (handily getting them off the insurance hook). they should, not unlike say a pilot medical, define their criteria and get on with it. i wouldn’t trust anyone who’d sign a coverall fitness cert.

Not going to comment on this particular case (I tend to sign these forms, where needed, though might have to charge as outline below) but there are some additional things to consider-

Just think if all events of this nature needed a medical confirmation, and then think how much GP time would be taken up if every person registered with a GP needed a form signing for every event they did. Not only this, but should a GP’s time be taken up doing this work? This is not classed as NHS work and takes up appointments for people with genuine illness. Since it is non NHS work, and relies on several years of training and expertise, and expensive indemnity cover, it may be entirely justifiable to charge for this work. A solicitor would charge for his signature no?

It’s a nonsensical situation not to be able to certify our own self fit for activity, or at least declare that one has not been declared ‘unfit’. As participants in this sort of activity we should try and resist the increasing situation where we need to get a ‘medical opinion’ before participating- this is nonsense unless the participant themselves has genuine personal concerns and needs to seek advice on this basis.

It is impossible to give a medical opinion that guarantees someone will survive a physcially demanding event- spontaneous events do happen and people drop dead- and a doctor may not be able to, in a single appointment necessarily perform the examination, tests and formulate an opinion that someone is medically fit. In fact, without an ECG and possibly further tests, clinical examination alone may not be sufficient for any GP to offer a valid opinion of fitness- and hence there is increasingly advice not to sign such forms that require such an opinion based on examination alone.

However, that said, I’m entirely encouraging of sporting activity and do not wish to present an obstacle to people participating in such events, and try to be as helpful as possible.

I’m purposely not trying to comment on the above- but just to say there are some additional considerations 🙂

Know any non-medical Drs?

Actualy metters, when you put it like that, you make a lot of sense.

I do online certification – only a grand

Probably cheaper than your GP

A quick google came up with this – a fake ‘fit note’ for £9.99. Anybody any comments / experience with this sort of thing?

http://www.doctorsnotestore.com/NHS_fake_doctors_sick_note.html

edit – looks like a fit note is what I would call a sick note so not much use……..

I have to get a cert from my doc every year for my competition licence, and I get an ECG etc. It’s free (you have to pay for the blank certificate), wouldn’t mind paying though since I do feel guilty for clogging up the service. It’s usually around this time of year too, so waiting rooms full of coughing and spluttering flu victims… (I’m in Spain BTW)

A has been said, this falls outside the expected NHS duty therefore entirely reasonable to incur a charge. Also, although they can refuse, add long as they have no valid reason (I.e… You really are fit enough) then they should find another Dr to sign….

DrP

weloome to what it’s like in France.
Mrs Mugsy needed a med cert to do yoga classes…and pre natal swimming classes.

However I do think the med certs are worded such as ‘No obvious reason why Mugsys_M8 should not participate’ rather than stating ‘Mugsys_m8 will not drop down and die’

Our gp in france (oldish female) seems particuarly sadistic when it comes to my annual medical for bike racing licence, she gets me to do all sorts of exercises to get me out of breath…

swiss01 – Member
yeah, what a clown. he signs al off who then dies of some previously unknown arrhymmia or pops an aneurysm in his head. nect thing he knows he got blubbing relatives trying to sue him and worse yet, vituperation on stw.

to me it seems like the organisation is being unclear in its medical criteria (handily getting them off the insurance hook). they should, not unlike say a pilot medical, define their criteria and get on with it. i wouldn’t trust anyone who’d sign a coverall fitness cert.

You did read the OP, yes? Where it quotes the certificate: “found no contraindications”?

metters, DrP et al, see above, and also NHS (i,e, taxes) pays doctors, solicitors charge for their work.

Folk like me who GAS about their health save the NHS quite a bit of £ no? Isn’t health promotion (for now anyway) the remit of the NHS too?

Why should a doctor not charge for signing these?

Part of the £6000 per annum professional indemnity insurance I personally pay covers me if/when things go wrong after I sign one of these. Consider that they’re only ‘necessary’ because the organisation asking you to get it signed is trying to save themselves a similarly large bill. It isn’t an NHS service.

metters, DrP et al, see above, and also NHS (i,e, taxes) pays doctors, solicitors charge for their work.

Taxes pay for the contract your GP holds to provide you with medical services. Those medical services are well defined in that contract and do not include insurance forms for example. Some forms, for example fit notes, various dwp forms, etc are in the contract and are therefore ‘free’.

Edit: as it happens I frequently sign these for free but I feel under absolutely no obligation to sign them at all, let alone for free.

I don’t doubt what the rules are, my point is I am saving the NHS money, it has a duty to do health promotion, so for 1 appt a year, it feels wrong.

Don’t confuse your GP with the NHS – if he signs this form and something goes wrong it’s on him, the NHS won’t help.

I can understand your frustration though, I personally find the NHS massively frustrating and unfair at times and that’s one of the reasons I tend to sign these forms, but you shouldn’t expect it, it’s a favour. As a rule those who pay most get least from it (apparently 25% are net contributors to the NHS, 75% net takers) – that’s life!

al, metters put it better than me but ‘found no contra-indications’ is simply not specific enough and easily insufficient to protect against future litigation shenanigans. the examples i gave – arrhythmia for instance. would i trust a gp to read an ecg? i would not.

to your other point. a pilot’s medical costs money and, by and large, these are fit people (at least fit enough to fly a plane). it’s a non-essential so they have to pay up or not fly.

as i said, for me it’s an organisational thing. they should be identifying, in general terms, which investigations they’d want to doing and their exclusion criteria. if someone then wants to cert you for free fair play to them

Thanks, I’m just gonna fake it 😎

No problem with charging for it but there is no way he can be sued for someone dying unless he misses anything obvious. Ie all he has to do is act as any competent doctor would do in that situation.

Thanks, I’m just gonna fake it

That really is the most appropriate response as far as I’m concerned, give it the contempt it deserves.

No problem with charging for it but there is no way he can be sued for someone dying unless he misses anything obvious. Ie all he has to do is act as any competent doctor would do in that situation.

Whilst you’d hope that’d be the case, there are 2 problems with this line of argument:

1. What should a competent doctor do? This is controversial, even (especially?) among sport and exercise medicine specialists. Pre-exercise screening is full of pitfalls. If event organisers want these forms signed they need to move away from catch all phrases and ask specific and definitive questions.

2. Even if there is no way I can be sued it doesn’t stop some folk from trying. The process is stressful, lengthy, time-consuming (taking away from NHS work) and can adversely affect things like getting a job, moving overseas, etc (most ask ‘do you have any outstanding complaints against you).

From a payout point of view I’d worry more about someone having a stroke or MI and ending up disabled but not dead…

HGV & PSV drivers need a medical examination to get a licence and then every 5 years from age 40 onwards.
These are not free on the NHS. When I asked, my local GP wanted £90.
I searched on TruckNet and found a doctor who does them cheap on Sunday mornings in the back room of a driving agency office, £30 I think it was.
If you do decide to go for a genuine certificate from a real GP, this might be an option.

All i can say is that the event is clearly badly run tbh

most events shouldnt require any medical certificates, due to the resons “metters “said, as it a waste of a GPs time filling out these stupid forms which cannot prove you are “fit” for jack.

Common problem could be adult sudden death, which is quite common in healthy adults and rarely known by people, near impossible to detect with a simple health check.

Point is, if they asking for medical certificates they have badly organised the event as they SHOULD instead be asking you to sign a waver on your Health insurance, which is the PROPER way to do these events ie tough man ect.

Unless you fit into the HGV ect where you need one for a licence then they are pointless.

End of the day, going into the armed forces you need a health check but it a pretty basic one at best, why do you need one for doing a marathon?? If you die it isnt the doctors fault, for failing to see that your fit enough.

Get a insurance waver instead, that the proper way.

If I turn up without a certificate, I don’t get to do the event, I’m not sure how an insurance waiver would help?

…and also NHS (i,e, taxes) pays doctors…

As had been said, the NHS pays us for NHS duties. If you wanted me to clean your windows, I’d do it for a tenner – the NHS wouldn’t pay me to do it. This is similar.
Anyhoo – it soundsl like you’ve got it sorted.

As a point of interest – any kids in Italy (I believe) who want to take up serious sport all undergo a cardiac echo in order to exclude a condition that leads to ‘sudden death in sports’ (HOCM/VT). Now that’s taking the situation seriously, but it does reduce the ‘unexplained death rate’ in their sportsmen!

DrP

All i can say is that the event is clearly badly run. tbh most events shouldnt require any medica certificates,

Depends where the event is and what it is – it’s not a sign of being “badly run” at all. French events you MUST have a medical form, it’s part of their insurance policy and nothing else will do, not EHIC, private policy, nothing. Most short events in the UK allow you to self-certify but I’ve been to a couple where a doctor’s cert is mandatory and they WERE checked (I was one of the ones doing the checking! Not of the “did you, Dr X, sign this form?” variety but of the “could you confirm that this patient is registered with your practice”).

That said, mine have been faked once or twice, when a GP either wasn’t happy to sign or wasn’t available.

I forged mine for a well known event in the French Alps. Quite easy to find a nice header on t’interweb, print it off and add the above ‘no contra-indications etc etc.