OK so the good old XC717 discs are an XC rim, right? The clue is in the name…

But it sounds like people here give them a good thrashing at trail centres and on the bumpy stuff too, any problems? Do they go out of true easy?

Also, I’m thinking about a tubeless conversion too but have heard discouraging things about setting up tubeless on 717s…

I’m a relatively light rider, 12st, riding a steel hardtail…

H

They’re fairly dependable, but there are other better options these days, whether they be cheaper, wider, or lighter. Personally I find them too narrow, anything up to about a 2.1″ tyre they feel ok, but any wider and the tyres feel a bit squirmy on them. As for tubeless compatibility, other rims are more obviously tubeless friendly to start with, though you can convert them with a rimstrip.

Stans Crests are the obvious, wider, lighter, but more expensive alternative. Mavic 719’s are wider and tougher, yet not much heavier. Superstar do their cheap XC430 which is slightly wider, slightly heavier but quite a bit cheaper.

Thanks mboy, giving the Crests a serious think. The Stans website rates Crests as best for XC and Racing and not at all for any all mountain stuff.

I’m after the best compromise between strength and weight really and don’t want there to be much chance of major buckles after a black run on a hardtail at a welsh centre or similar…

Could Crests still cut it?

H

Looking at arches now, any thoughts on them?

Arches are a stiffer Crest. Same width and profile, but more material in them.

As to what Crests can and can’t deal with, well that is more dependant on the individual, their weight and riding style, rather than where you ride. And without seeing you ride, it’s hard to comment. I know light guys who can dent a Mavic 721 almost anywhere, and fat biffers running Crests or 717’s without issues.

From your description though, I think the Arches would be a better bet.

Trail centres = XC. If you want a rim for that sort of thing Crests will be fine. If you want the extra strength then an Arch Ex is still the same weight as an XC717!

To counter this, I really like 717s. They are tough as old boots. I’m a wheel destroyer and a rear 717 lasts me about 4 years before it’s looking a bit ****. 2.2/2.3 tyres fit just fine, they are pretty cheap (Certainly cheaper than a lot of Stans rims) and looking at the Crest, there’s no way I’m putting a 340g non-eyeletted rim on my C456, thanks!

Argh, this isn’t helping.

The 717s are a lot cheaper…

hi guys

i have used 717s for years – I have never totalled one – put a few minor dents in them i admit but i really rate them – easy to build and true and eyeletted.

I am 11 stone and ride a HT and FS fairly lightly – a set of 717s did a 65 mile tour of the dales / ingleborough DH and howgills recently = no worries at all.

cheers

paul

Used to be a big fan of 719s until I tacoed one during a fairly innocuous low-side. It wasn’t just bent it was 8-shaped.

20mm XT & db spokes, Merlin build.

I’m using the same Hope XC/717 wheels that I’ve been using for the past (about, I think) ten years. I’m no gnarlcore-to-the-max ty[pe rider, but I’ve never been the right side of 12.5 stone and they’ve had a fair old battering.

i run xc717’s on one bike, had crests on another bike and am now running arch ex’s on my main bike.

all are fantastic… i weigh 14 stone and found the crests stood up to places like afan really well. i went with arch ex’s on the new steed purely because i wanted something that would stand up better to my lack of skill

the 717’s still rock for fast xc work on flatter terrain.

my vote would be arch ex’s… fit and forget… job done.

try merlin for a good value build to your spec.

I’ve ridden my current 717 hope hoops (which I bought second hand) on a 100mm hard tail before swapping them toy full sus. I’ve smashed them down every rocky descent my ham fisted attempts at riding can get down, they are still straight as a straight thing. I weigh 14 st so not the lightest, they just keep on ticking. Not tried to go tubeless, I tend to swap tyres a bit so can’t be arsed with the phaff.

85kg and hammered 717s no bother, they tubeless fine too IME.

As above, I think it’s a riding style thing. If you break wheels, you break wheels! If you don’t, you’ll be fine.

take a look for sun ringle eq rims. there seem to be a few of ’em around for less than equivalent dimensioned mavics, but otherwise similar spec. just got some eq31s from on-one for 17.50 a pop, and they have slimmer ones too IIRC. if you look around you could pay 55 quid a go for ’em if you wanted to!
i would normally default to mavic for simple reliability, but when i can get two rims for ~ same price as one mavic, it seems like a no-brainer.
they arrived, post free, next morning, after i ordered at about lunchtime too! excellent service from on-one.

717’s on Pro II’s here, still serving me well after 4 years and tubeless since Feb.

Can’t honestly say I’d pick them again as the market has moved on a bit since – I’d probably go for something tubeless specific, not that the 717’s haven’t been up to it.

67Kg, no riding god but not shy in throwing it around a bit. Used mostly for ragging around the local woods and occasional trail centre stuff.

I had xc717’s and now run stans flows. There were no issues with strength on the mavics, the biggest problem was I was running 2.25 hobby nics and unless they were rock hard they felt like they were going to fold off the rim and the narrow profile made them look very strange.

Running flows (the actual build came in 50g lighter per wheel than the 717’s) the wide rim gives a nice fat tyre profile which gives so much confidence, they run tubeless with ease at low pressures which has transformed the ride.

So i’d avoid the 717’s and go for crests, arch ex or flows. I did read that crests can be very difficult to mount tyres (really tight fit) but you can’t go wrong with any of their wheels.

I’m a 65kg rider, I’ve been running 717/Pro 2’s fitted with 2.1 tyres on the hardtail for 2 years. Recently changed them to a burlier build with 2.35’s & I’ve tackled trail centres, Nevis Downhill Red, Peaks….they’re still true. Do the odd small jump, never more than 2/3 foot in the air. I’d buy another set.

Mavic website says they’ll take a max 2.1 width, it actually says 2.3 on the rim sticker. Can’t say I’ve felt a difference from 2.1 to 2.35, other than the latter looks more rounded…never felt the tyres squirm. I wouldn’t go any wider & I haven’t ran them tubeless.

I’ve destroyed a couple of XC717’s but I can’t say it was their fault, they thoroughly deserved to fail given the respective crashes!

I still have a XC717 and I also have a Superstar XC430 which I really like. Slightly wider, cleaner shape and cheap. Just wish I had the stealth version (no stickers).

717’s are about as close as you can get to the holy grail of light/strong/cheap.

My Whyte 46 came with 717s as stock. I dinged the rear quite badly after a particularly un-delicate hop onto a small rock but aside from that they’ve stood up well to riding all over the UK and the Sierra Nevada. I’m getting on for 14 stone with all my riding gear and hydration pack on and I’m not the most delicate rider (line, what line??). Whether they’d stand up so well without the suspension remains to be seen. I’ve managed OK with 2.3s

I’ve run 717s for the last seven years and I tip the scales at thirteen stone.

I’ve only ever irrepairably dinged them once, but that was down to my poor skills than anything else. I’ve ridden them in Wales, Scotland, the Peaks etc and aside from the one ding they’ve never let me down.

As for running them tubeless, I run the rear of my XC bike with a Spesh Captain 2bliss tyre on a 20″ BMX tube hacked to fit. It hasn’t given me any problems in over 18 months. Getting the tyre on was an absolute swine, but the seal has held – and indeed it inflated with nothing more than a track pump.

I run 2″ wide tyres on mine, but in the past I’ve run 2.25″ Panaracers without issue. If you’re thinking of fitting 2.3″ wide Nevegals then you may struggle though.

My hardtail and AM bike both run 719s.

I’d put a 719 on the back of a HT.
As much as I like 717s, I found that they weren’t quite tough enough. Although it did take me 3 years and a few trips to the alps to untrue them enough to warrant a stronger rim.
FWIW, 11st rider on a full suss and pretty smooth (not one for big jumps!)

I have also run 717’s for years without issue, i wasn’t exactly light or riding carefully when I bought them, the back one has needed a true but other than periodical greasing (xt hubs) I have has no issues at all.

I’ve always had 32spoke 717s and they’re predecessors. I’m light at 10.5-11stone and have done many doubles, drop offs, trail centres, downhill courses etc. I have dented rims but never destroyed them. I had one set on my main bike for 6 years the rear rim was dented due to a flat and some rocks in a sprint finish. The front hadn’t been trued in that entire time.
A rim is only ever as good as a build. Got stans licesnsed rims at the moment and don’t think the build is that great so they may well get destroyed.

Surely the Mavic 321 is the sensible choice from the Mavic range. Easy to set up tubeless, cheap and easy to build.

I’m really hard on kit. Have used and abused a set for years (including Alps riding) before swapping on a whim over to Stans (Arch and Flow).

Surely the Mavic 321 is the sensible choice from the Mavic range. Easy to set up tubeless, cheap and easy to build.

And they weigh a TON! They are strong and cheap, but not even close to light!

They’re not that heavy.

Not that light though (weights from Actionsports) :
EX823 657g
XM321 570g
EN521 540g
Flow 470g
Arch 400g
XC717 395g
Crest 340g
Podium 284g

So they aren’t that heavy.

I’ve had 4 sets of wheels all using 717’s. I’m fairly gentle on the bike, no big drops and always pick a careful line through the knarly stuff. I have had two rims fail in the same way. They split on the inside of the rim between the spoke holes. Looked fine from the outside but one split was nearly 6″ long.Now check under the rim tape on a regular basis. Might have been a bad batch but I wouldn’t reccomend them for the rough stuff.

I run a 717 up front but I would say it’s very hard not to get the tyre rolling off the rim in corners even on a trail centre, without having the tyre so rock hard it’s lost most of its grip. I think I may be going wider soon but my 521s seem rather heavy for the task.

Having said that, I’m 17stone and beat the living hell out of my wheels through anything in front of me, be it rock gardens, drop offs etc. Not even requiring truing yet.

To be honest mine have manage to survived sunday’s race pretty ok (I need to put them on a truing wheel). I very much doubt all the other alternatives would have escaped that well (will the word unscathed be ok?).

Will echo some points above, the 717’s are fine they’re pretty tough, they’re quite light etc.

But they were designed in a time when the widest tyres any of us used were 2.1″ wide, and we all ran inner tubes. I bought some wheels last year, specifically for the hubs, they came with 717’s on them. The 2.25″ tyres I like to run squirmed badly on them, unless I ran 40psi or more, which defeated the object of having larger grippier tyres for me. On my new rims, which have a 22mm internal width (717’s are 17mm), and running tubeless, the tyres have plenty of stability right down to about 25psi, so the 32psi or so I run is spot on.

Nothing wrong with 717’s at all, just the goalposts moved many years ago, and Mavic has never really bothered trying to catch up.

Yeah, I tried a 2.3 on a 717 and ripped the tyre straight off the rim after landing a jump a bit awkwardly. Stans Flows would be a good choice if not mentioned yet.

They’re not that heavy.

They flipping are! They are not, by any stretch of the imagination, either light, or an XC/AM rim. IMO they are a cheap lightish DH rim. I’ve had some, and the weight difference switching to 717s was immediately noticeable. 170g heavier than a 717. that’s 340g per pair, or 12.1oz, or 3/4lb. On wheels, that’s a MASSIVE amount.
A 717 is £16 more. I challenge you to loose 3/4lb of any bike for even close to £32, ESPECIALLY off the wheels!!! 🙂

Like I said, they are solid rims (Too solid) and they are cheap (Not cheap enough) A Sun SOS rim is about 50g lighter and £4 cheaper for the same size rim, for instance.

I had 321s on one bike. Never again.
I’ve got Sun SOS on my Pitch which has only ever seen Alps/Peaks/Trail Centres/Tenerife riding and they’ve not budged. (I built them myself) 321s are just not good when compared with ANYTHING else really…..

717’s are great, ive ridden Snowdon ranger, all the local peaks stuff and even a bit of wharncliffe downhill on them. Stayed true and I am giving them a large amount of abuse on my hardtail. Great wheels 🙂

Sorry Peter, I’m not following. The 717’s were a lot heavier than…?

Peter’s on a rant about the 321s.

Used 719’s with 2.35 Minions & High Rollers, currently using a 2.35 XR4 without issue.
Mrs runs 2.2 Purgatorys on 717’s, big tyres, no issues.
All tubed, down to minus 20 psi on occaision.
Mostly Rockmince Lite, with a bit of Jeycore.

Total of 12 years use between us, never had to true a wheel. Merlin builds.
Were both pastry positive.

Aren’t Stans made of cheese?