Mavic 819's or Stans Xtr Flow ? (Tubeless)

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Mavic 819's or Stans Xtr Flow ? (Tubeless)

33 posts & 27 voices | Started 1 year ago by Trouty65 | Latest reply from winrya

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Trouty65 - Member

Hi all,

I am getting lots of conflicting advice on having some new wheels built at the moment. I want to run tubless but I have read that the Mavic 819 rim does not like a tyre bigger than 2.2 ?
I run a Maxxis High roller up front 2.35 can anyone advise if the Mavic will handle this ok ?
Stans look like another viable option but most of my buddy's run the Mavics on Hope pro's and i know they are very reliable but i am a bit heavier than some of them @ 13 stone.

Am veering toward the Mavics on Hope Pro 2 Evo's but have been put off by reports of burping and taking in crap that will stop the tyre sealing well ? especially in winter. I find i need to run the high rollers fairly soft for best results.

Anyone running either. What;s your views ?

Thanks

Paul

Posted 1 year ago #
skiboy - Member

I got 819's on hopes, Been running small block 8's on them since new last year, no problems but they are heavy

Posted 1 year ago #
bikewhisperer - Member

Currently using a Bontrager Jones 2.35 front and Maxxis Crossmark 2.2 rear on 819s.. I've got to have the jones firmer than ideal to stop it rolling around.. This is probably a good thing though, as the sidewalls are fragile and flexible and I wouldn't want to pinch it. Stiffer UST tyres would probably be fine. They always seat fine first time and only burp at silly pressures - think 15psi..

The rims are 7 years old now and seem to be indestructible.

Posted 1 year ago #
danti - Member

Run both hardtail and Full Sus (mostly in Peaks but taken bike all over country and to Alps) with Flows on Pro 2 with Tubeless Maxxis Advantage 2.1 F&R on hardtail and R on Full Sus with Ardent 2.25 on front.

I'm about a stone lighter than you and these wheels just feel bomb-proof and are also good skills compensators for when you've chosen the wrong line

They're only slightly heavier than an 819 but a whole lot wider and don't pinch the tyre as much leaving more of it in contact with the ground (or at least it appears like that) so you can easily run narrower tyres (used to run 2.35 contis before moving to Flows).

They're awesome!
Why Mavic haven't brought out a comparable rim by now I don't know but they're losing a lot of people to Stans.

Posted 1 year ago #
Garry_Lager - Member

Used 2.4 tyres with 819s for years, nae bother. I've used 819s for that long, with no problems, that I'm reluctant to change.

The stans have come a long way though, and plenty of folk seem very happy with them. They seem to have more options for high performance wheelsets with them (lighter etc). Still too many reports of compressors and hassle setting them up for me though.

Posted 1 year ago #
craigxxl - Member

Flows are lighter than 819s as Mavic publish the weight without the bulky, heavier nipples that they require to make them air tight.

Posted 1 year ago #
NorthCountryBoy - Member

I have ZTR flows on pro 2s very good wheel set. Im 12 stone ride fairly rough stuff in the lakes and have used a variety of tyres all tubeless. currently useing Bontrager XR4s 2.3. These come up massive! Te plus point with these rims is that they give wider tyres a better shape. I used these tyres on some narrower mavic rims and they looked like moon buggy tyres. Look more senisible now on the wider stans rims.
The mavic 819`s are 19mm width i think. The satns ZTR is 28mm wide but lighter! Thats near enough 10mm wider!

Posted 1 year ago #
neilc1881 - Member

Not a fan of the 819 myself, lots of trouble with them burping on rough stuff unless running 38psi< then killing the rim wall, flattened them several times (which is probably why they won't seat nicely now!). Catch 22 perhaps.
Will be going for flows next time.

Posted 1 year ago #
Scienceofficer - Member

They seem to have more options for high performance wheelsets with them (lighter etc). Still too many reports of compressors and hassle setting them up for me though.

Alot of folk say this kind of thing about tubeless in general, I guess out of ignorance. Theres no difference between a flow with yellow tape and a UST rim AFAICT.

Where you need a compressor is with non-tubeless tyres on said rim. You'd need a compressor to put a non UST highroller on a UST rim in all probability too.

A flows internal rim diameter is rather larger than an 819 and it will give a difference tyre profile with larger tyres. Stans are lighter and as stiff/stiffer. I can't see why anyone would actually go for 819's. They seem to be outclassed all round.

Posted 1 year ago #
Martin B - Member

Flows all the way
Got some cheapo's made up from Superstar (29ers on SS hub).... no problems so far
Tubeless tyres popped onto the rim first go, hardly needed sealent :o)

Posted 1 year ago #
RagTi - Member

Have run my 819s USTs on Pro IIs for the last 4.5 years. No buckles, flats or problems whatsoever. Only had to replace 1 spoke in their life to date when it got clobbered by a boulder. Great wheel but **** me !... zero on the blingage scale !

Posted 1 year ago #
AntM - Member

Running High Rollers 2.35 f/r on 819 rims no probs. I found them to be pretty tough and work well.

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

819s are fine with decent size tyres, I've got a (genuine) 2.5 on one of mine and it works a charm.

But, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason at all to buy an 819 over a Flow- the Flow's lighter (*), wider, and stronger. Once taped, setting up tubeless is absolutely identical between the 2. (*- Mavic's claimed weight for the 819 is completely crooked, doesn't include the ferrule things) Fair play the 819's an incredibly old design so it's been a good performer, but now it's not competitive.

Posted 1 year ago #
grum - Member

I have had both - the 819s are now on my gf's bike.

Nothing wrong with the Mavic's but they are narrower for pretty much the same weight (although I used 2.5 HRs without problems on the 819s). Tubeless setup was dead easy on the Stans - just the yellow tape and a bit of washing up liquid required.

Posted 1 year ago #
chakaping - Member

High roller 2.35 is only about 2.2in in real life isn't it?

Have run both rims tubeless at low pressure and neither gave me any burping problems.

Posted 1 year ago #
neil853 - Member

Can't comment on the Flow's but what I can vouch for is the strength of the 819's, had them for 4 years now (inc two trips to the alps) and they are still straight and true, very impressed

Posted 1 year ago #
neil853 - Member

oh and i've ran tyres up to 2.4 with no problems tubeless

Posted 1 year ago #
mboy - Member

The mavic 819`s are 19mm width i think. The satns ZTR is 28mm wide but lighter! Thats near enough 10mm wider!

819's have an internal width of 19mm, STans Flows are just over 28mm width externally, so they're not 9mm wider. 819's are 24.5mm externally iirc, so Flow's are about 4mm wider, which is still significant.

819s are fine with decent size tyres, I've got a (genuine) 2.5 on one of mine and it works a charm.

But, as far as I'm concerned there's no reason at all to buy an 819 over a Flow- the Flow's lighter (*), wider, and stronger. Once taped, setting up tubeless is absolutely identical between the 2. (*- Mavic's claimed weight for the 819 is completely crooked, doesn't include the ferrule things) Fair play the 819's an incredibly old design so it's been a good performer, but now it's not competitive.

Pretty much mirrors my thoughts on them. I've run 819's for the best part of a decade now on various bikes, they've been awesome! REALLY stiff rim, UST is a doddle to set up for the most part and they cope well with tyres of a fairly reasonable size still. But Flows are slightly lighter, slightly wider, and as long as you're not a total muppet they're very easy to setup tubeless too. Only reason to get 819's over Flows now would be if you were planning on running narrow tyres for winter say, as a tyre sub 2.1" on a Flow would look odd and have an overly square profile. That and 819's are still a bit cheaper than Flows in most places.

Posted 1 year ago #
sugdenr - Member

Tried 819. I am same weight as you and I like Stans so much I now have 2 sets of Flows and have done everything except the proper downhill on them. What wrecked a Crossride rim doesnt affect the Flows. They are on XT hubs - not popular but plently strong, easy and cheap to service if you look after them, and means I get them dead cheap second hand.
I use Stan's yellow tape and standard tyres and seal them up like the Stans video. Its a bit of a faff but they are brilliant. My compressor does make life easier though.
They do burp a bit - but only because I run them very low pressure and because I just overstressed the tyre with a bad landing or something that would have probably resulted in a pinch flat with tubes. I have Stout 2.3 on back - but I found that tyres are very variable on size and you cant rely on the given sizing.

Posted 1 year ago #
ScottChegg - Member

My experience of Flows is poor. Collapsetastic.

My experience of 819's is brilliant, 3 years and still straight. UST a doddle, no burps or lost beads.

Posted 1 year ago #
jollyjumper - Member

I got the 819´s on Hope´s and the Hub is awesome - just goes faster and faster, I wonder if there is a motor in it..

Burping problems for me. I weigh around 210, ca. 95 kg - and I had a brand new Nobby Nic tubeless ready 2.35 on and that didn´t do well. Now I got a stupid Bontraeger Tubeless ready on it burbed me today (right before I jumped...very little trail jump) and that was not a nice landing. Nic didn´t have the highest pressure, but the BT was full-up and still danked me. I am ordering Maxis or Continental Tubeless today and hope this rectifies the situation.

I didn´t really pay to get burps! Of course I can try a total tubeless, but now it seems to me that this rim has issues from the start- As I had another inexplicable accident in a pump scenario on the inaugural run.

This rim is less than a year old so I am gonna contact ChainReaction and ask what to do.
I got a set of Stan´s too, but they don´t hold air overnight, and bikemailorder.de wouldn´t pay the postage to return them, even though I got a certification from a large bikeshop that they were crap. I would never buy from bikemailorder.de

Not real impressed with with either, but at least the Mavic holds air....

Posted 3 months ago #
Northwind - Member

jollyjumper - Member

I got a set of Stan´s too, but they don´t hold air overnight, and bikemailorder.de wouldn´t pay the postage to return them, even though I got a certification from a large bikeshop that they were crap.

How do you know it's the rim, not the tyres or the fitment of the tape or the valve? Stans rely on the tape to seal up, at most a tiny wee bit of rim isn't taped so a manufacturing fault isn't likely to cause one to leak.

Posted 3 months ago #
b r - Member

Jollyjumper

You're running too wide a tyre and/or too low pressure on the 819.

And if its losing air, put some more latex in and get it in wherever the air is seeping out.

Posted 3 months ago #
adrianmurray - Member

Flows over 819s cos wider rims are better... says so here.

Posted 3 months ago #
Superficial - Member

Whilst the science in that article is a bit dubious, I'm of the same opinion and went for Flows over 819s for that reason. There's some added science in the shallow depth of the Flow rims too (I.e. what the braking surface would be) - apparently it decreases leverage to prevent burping. I would imagine the Mavics are stronger (I have nothing whatsoever to support this thought) but the tyre profile and no-burp benefits of the wider Flow rims sold them to me. No problems so far in 3 months but it's early days re: longevity.

Mavic need a kick up the arse - they made by far and away the best rims 10 years ago, but they've changed nothing in that time and now they're seriously outdated. When Mavic make a wide "trail-weight" tubeless-compatible rim they'll make a killing.

Posted 3 months ago #
the_lecht_rocks - Member

My 819s are 6 years old, still true and work flawlessly with .fat Albert 2.35 on my ti456. I have however moved to stans arch ex for my 29er build as mavic now need to re design their rim range.
In fairness, the 819 is a (heavier) super dependable rim FWIW.

Posted 3 months ago #
lilesy - Member

got flows very strong for some one whos 15.5stone but they are not tubles and to put the silly rubber valve/strip in just ads more weight go for the new 819s i will be if i ever manage to bend one

Posted 3 months ago #
gravity-slave - Member

the silly rubber valve/strip in just ads more weight

Yellow tape works perfectly for tubeless even with standard Maxxis tyres and is the same weight, if not lighter than a standard non tireless rim tape.

Posted 3 months ago #
winrya - Member

Ive just switched from mavics to flows and I'm loving the change. The extra width gives the tyre a much fatter profile. It also makes the tyre feel much more secure at low pressures as with the mavics i could feel the tyre was trying to roll off the rim. I'm running the flows tubeless with 2012 tubeless ready (not ust) 2.25 nobby nic and racing ralph and after 4 rides I'm really impressed. No burping so far which has been my biggest concern. Started off at high pressures but to sort out ride I've settled with 30psi rear tyre and 23psi in the front. Seems stunning so far, especially no risk of pinch flats which used to ruin my rides and the extra control from lower pressures has transformed my bike at lower speeds gliding over small bumps like they aren't there

Posted 3 months ago #
lilesy - Member

point was flows arnt tubeless and they do go down over a couple of days no matter how they are sealed

Posted 3 months ago #
sugdenr - Member

point was flows arnt tubeless and they do go down over a couple of days ~~no matter how they are~~if you havent sealedthem properly

Mine last about 3 weeks before they go a bit soft, and even then its the (non UST) tyres that are leaking - you can tell, pump up again slosh milk around inside and put soapy on the sidewalls and watch the fizzing, mostly near the sidewall.

Posted 3 months ago #
Northwind - Member

lilesy - Member

point was flows arnt tubeless and they do go down over a couple of days no matter how they are sealed

No they don't Mine seal up exactly the same as my 819s- ie entirely dependant on the tyre. Some tyres never seal up well- my Contis all deflate over a couple of days regardless of what rim they're on. My Specializeds and Kendas all stay up indefinately.

I have no idea what you mean by "Flows aren't tubeless"- once the yellow tape's on they function exactly the same as a Mavic UST.

Posted 3 months ago #
winrya - Member

point was flows arnt tubeless and they do go down over a couple of days no matter how they are sealed

Doesn't ztr (zero tube rim) ruin that theory? Doing my research most run tubeless with no issues. No probs for me, maybe you need to watch stan doing the shaky shaky sealing thing again.

Posted 3 months ago #