Is there a test or somesuch you did to prove your 'smart enough' for a difficult degree (such as medicine, civil engineering etc)?

I graduated from High School (in Australia) back in 1995, obtained reasonable marks but nothing to set the world alight (mainly due to lack of application, definitely not lack of ability)… went to uni straight out of school but due to a lot of factors, made a complete hash of it and never obtained a degree… ended up going travelling for a bit, then fell into the Travel Industry when I came home, been bumming around in that for the past 8 years or so…

however, I've now reached a point in my life (and a level of maturity) where I seriously and completely want to go back to study and obtain a decent degree, but I don't know how to prove that I'm ready for it and that I'm 'smart' enough to warrant a place offer…

Any thoughts & suggestions welcome…

Hello, from the other thread 😉

As an example of what you are up against, for Mech Eng at Bristol last year, there were 1200 applications for about 60 places. If you made it to the interview stage (about 100 or so) you had to have 4 A-levels at grade 'A' (with preferably a fifth, A-level as well), pretty much all A* GCSE's and even then you had to show some committment to the subject by arranging for some unpaid work within a relevant company for the year preceeding study. I think around 75% of last years intake ended up being sponsored through uni as a result. It's a pretty cut-throat business out there so you REALLY have to stand out.

I don't want to sound negative, but that is the reality at the moment.

Short answer;

Definitely do a foundation year!!

Long answer;

I wasn't a mature student, however I had to do a 'foundation year' before I could do my degree in civil engineering.

People on the foundation degree were either a) young people who hadn't got decent A-level results (me) or b) mature students retraining.

The foundation degree I was on could get you onto any of the engineering degrees and 20% or so of the degree was looking at the different engineering disciplines available.

I highly recommend doing something like this that keeps your options open for a year and shows you what each engineering discipline involves.

One thing you can count on is that Maths will feature heavily, however if you're taught well, given support and you do the work, it shouldn't be a problem.

Personally I came out of college with D grades in A-level maths and physics (and other random AS levels) and left university with 1st class Meng with honours.

so how does a mature entrant stand out? or can't they compete with the young smart ones with their killer grades?

EDIT: a foundation year sounds like a good idea, City & Islington offer one and they're 5 minutes from my door…

There is alot more competition for spaces today, especially with the proposed cuts.

If you're planning to go into engineering as a mature student, they will consider any outstanding engineering experiences in the past – even stuff like being a really good mechanic i guess but obviously placements and foundation courses are what they're looking for

Access course at your local college?

If you made it to the interview stage (about 100 or so) you had to have 4 A-levels at grade 'A' (with preferably a fifth, A-level as well), pretty much all A* GCSE's

I don't remember anyone achieving that level of result, when I left school… Just having 3 A levels got you into a top Uni.

(Reasonable grammar getting on for 30 years ago)

Can you not go get the grades? I would hazard a guess that you can take a levels at your local college on a part time basis.

If I were you, I'd look at trying to get unpaid work somehow to get some experience in the relevant environment before applying and consider doing a foundation year – yes, it is going to be hard for you to stand out, so anythign that shows some commitment on your CV, rather than just another A* exam result is a good thing and will work in your favour.

b r – yes – that was the case even for me, 15 years ago. It's a viscious circle now as exams have "got easier", so it is harder to differentiate between candiates, so the strudent take more exams to try and make themselves look better-er, as trying to go from 1200 to 100 in one shot has be judged on some metric – this is why the savvy ones with some 'intern' experience stand out. It ain't right, but it is reality I'm afraid.

As an example of what you are up against, for Mech Eng at Bristol last year, there were 1200 applications for about 60 places. If you made it to the interview stage (about 100 or so) you had to have 4 A-levels at grade 'A' (with preferably a fifth, A-level as well), pretty much all A* GCSE's and even then you had to show some committment to the subject by arranging for some unpaid work within a relevant company for the year preceeding study. I think around 75% of last years intake ended up being sponsored through uni as a result. It's a pretty cut-throat business out there so you REALLY have to stand out.

Hmmm I'm sceptical of that given that the Bristol University Mech Eng website states that

MEng and BEng in Mechanical Engineering: A-levels in Mathematics and Physics plus a third A-level, which need not be science-based. An A-level in General Studies is not included in the terms of conditional offers. We also accept a wide range of international qualifications.

Linky to the website

My advice would be decide what you want to study, the decide where you want to study, the call that department directly and talk to whoever deals with admissions there.

'going and getting the grades' at A-level will be very hard I reckon,

foundation years are different in that;

a) They are geared towards mature students (teachers may be more sympathetic to needs, i.e. childcare/other commitments etc)

b) The content in a foundation year in engineering will be geared towards engineering applications, which makes a hell of a difference opposed to contextless pure maths questions trying to find some point of intersection in the middle of space

c)IME they are constantly assessed to ensure everyone is on track

d) more likely to be people in a similar position to you (revising with a load of 17yr olds might do your head in)

Hope that helps

Oh, and e) the foundation course I was on guaranteed you a place on a engineering degree (at the same uni) if you got over 60%

gonefishin – well, I sat in on the meeting that said that, last year, around 400 people would have met their typical entry requirements – which you have shown correctly. Interviewing 400 is not an option, so they simply went on to pick those from that 400 that EXCEEDED the typical entry requirements.

The meeting for this years intake is in a few weeks time, so we'll see how ridiculous it is this time…. projections were for 1500 or so applications……

Bristolbiker – not sure where you got your entry requirements to Bristol uni?
But their web site says the standard entry requirements are:
A-levels: AAA/AAB including Mathematics and Physics

So why haven't they upped the (published) entrance requirements? Wouldn't that have the effect of reducing the applications and thereby negating the need for those sorts of meetings that can only be a distraction for those involved?

I was in this position because I dicked around instead of doing my A-levels 🙂 , I did a foundation year. Worked out really well.

I'm currently doing a Quantity Surveying degree through The College of Estate Management at Reading Uni via distance learning. They look at work experience as well as qualifications and give great support during the course. with it being distance learning you can do a full degree in 4 yrs while working full time. Its hard work but can be managed. I highly recommend it

I would only go back to education IF the specialism that I studied GUARANTEED me a job (and a better set of circumstances than I had before.

If you just see it as a way of itching a scratch and hoping it will lead to a job after then you are disillusioned. Dont forget you will be up against alot of competition for the same jobs from younger and fresher grads when you finish.

Sorry to be negative. Studying costs a fortune now.

But application numbers are going up all the time as people go back to Uni through the recession and the number of instiutions offering degrees that people want to do goes down. The number of people getting A-grade A levels is at the point where it is impossible to tell how good they are purely on paper (certainly if you go on the '3 A's' standard) so you've gotta have something else to make you stand out.

Also, you want people to apply – you want to select the best you can get from as big a pool as is reasonable (everyone accepts its going beyond reasonable)…. which may not just mean 18 A-levels at A*. You still want people with AAB, say, but have got a years intership under their belt to apply as these may very well be the best candidates…..

But this year they are introducing A* grade A levels

The levels you initially quoted were better than those I have seen get into study medicine at Oxford. And the standard 5th A level is generally general studies .. which isnt recognised in the majority of univertities.

I would phone up someone in the department (undergraduate admissions tutor probably) and talk to them. Don't apply for foundation courses etc. until you know whether the departments you are interested in will recognise the exact foundation course you are applying for. That way you avoid making an expensive mistake.

Like Bristolbiker says, there are lots of things you can do to make yourself more obvious (and being a mature student is quite likely one of them).

The other thing worth considering if you're not in a massive rush to go onto a foundation year, is whether first just getting a maths qualification is worthwhile. Assuming you're looking at engineering, the maths will be hard (really hard). If you're not capable of an A in a-level maths or equivalent, engineering maths will probably be too hard to cope with. You can do a-levels at evening courses pretty easily. If you had time to do maths and further maths, or maths and physics, and the ability to get an A in them, you might make yourself much more attractive for technical courses.

(mainly due to lack of application, definitely not lack of ability)

It is worth being really sure that you are right about this statement – particularly in terms of the maths stuff.

Joe

But this year they are introducing A* grade A levels

How does this help? Rather than grading each year against itself (top 10% A, next 10% B etc) so there is some consistent distrinction in a year A* simply adds a way to add a finer top grade so that, by governement measures, standards can still "improve" year on year.

…..but this really is another argument, think we're going off topic a bit…..

EDIT: Blacklug – yes, the 5th is usually general studies, which isn't counted in points, but would distinguish you from others…. and yes the entrance grade is now on a par with medicine – 'the kids' think that you're more likely to get a job in engineering than in medicine at the end of study, it'll take less time to do and won't be such a financial burden.

That seems a very high qualifying standard to me.

My daughter got offered a Maths/Statistics place at LSE with 3 A levels at A grade

Remember that new A-Levels aren't quite the same as old ones. I think everyone does AS levels now and then tops up a selection in the second year of college. Any teachers care to comment?

(What i'm saying is that it's more common for people to have 4 a-levels nowadays)

It really depends on the uni & course. Something like engineering or medicine is going to require maths or science qualifications.

On the other hand, almost anyone could go and make a decent fist of a business degree, as the syllabus is very varied.

The uni may use something like GMAT for mature students & internationals, and ask you to sit that in order to prove you've got a brain in your head. I wouldn't go sitting A-level maths myself, as I view A-levels as a big time sponge when I look back on them.

God this is all depressing… I realise more and more each day just how badly I f*cked things up 14-15 years ago (making a disaster of uni, squandering a small inheritance that could've been put towards a house that was actually affordable back then, among many other things…) Regrets suck don't they? 🙁

The only good things to come out of the past 10 years has been my wife (thank god!) and a fair amount of world travel… I've grown up a bit now I think, old enough to realise just how quickly time passes for instance, and now I want to get my life back on track, somehow… I think a degree will help this, but it seems like it might be very tough to do something I actually want to do (sure, could do a Business degree or somesuch, but I can't see that working for me…)

It's enough to drive a man to drink… or worse… anyone got a time machine I can borrow? 🙁

Go for a different branch of engineering?

You'll end up doing the same job in the same 'science park' in the same nonedescript home counties town at the end of it anyway.

Process engineering is generaly under/less over subscribed than most, and as a result pays better on average as well.

You'll end up doing the same job in the same 'science park' in the same nonedescript home counties town at the end of it anyway.

you make it sound so exciting 🙂

you make it sound so exciting

For the majority, though, it ain't a million miles away from the truth 😉 If your hoping for the jet-set lifestyle, exotic locations – or even to discover something revolutionary through 'tinkering', prototypes and masses of craftmanship back away from the application now… NOW YOU HEAR ME!!! 🙂

So the standards are high at Bristol, doesn't mean you have to apply there. Plenty of other universities to apply to. But more importantly I assume you've spend a bit of time away from the maths and physics? It'll be easy to pick up again if you've got the basic ideas so maybe try looking at some A-Level math pure/mechanics papers to see if you're still up to the standard and move on from there i guess. Comparing papers today to those from 10-20 years ago i can say from personal experience that things were much harder back then.

In terms of Medicine their are specific entrance exams for graduates on the graduate courses to prove that you still have a brain in your head.

http://www.gamsatuk.org its pretty horrendous !!

UKCAT *shudders*

To be honest, I'm not sure how great an idea going back to uni is. At the end of the course, you're competing for entry level jobs with people who are happy to flog themselves to get a foot in the door.

Depends what you do if its teaching or healthcare your ok, otherwise could be looking a little shady!

Like everyone has said, the easiest route into it is through a foundation degree.Apply to wide range of unis from good ones to bad ones, and pick the best which accept you. Make sure, if it is engineering that the uni you pick is accredited by the relavent body. If your looking at civil engineering then you have lots fo choices in and around London.

haven't read the whole thread – just the op.

but my mate is looking to start engineering at some pretty good institutions. at a mature level and without the entry qualifications

he's had a variety of entrance prcedures. including acceptance from a cv, some test based ones (basic engineering maths – algebra, fractions and geometery) and some interveiw based stuff.

HTH

I got into my law degree from an Access course at my local college.

Various colleges run different courses. One near me only does a Humanities course (great if you want to do Law, English, History, Sociology blah blah) but another near me does ones in Sciences, Arts, Health etc.

Another option is a Foundation year at a University, but bear in mind you will have to pay for this and I think they are a minimum of £1100 (it was when I looked at it anyway) whereas my Access course was £200.

I did an access course at a local college then uni as a mature student

I had 3 C's at A'level but ut was the old Oxford board which was a grade A to the replacement Cambridge exam board so Bristol let me in at the age of 25 because of my experience in industry, student profile, president of NUS and extra C. activities.

At interview they said they want smart people but also people who were not just bookworms.

I guess it was 2002 and less competitive back then?

Try and get on a Foundation year or "year 0" of an Extended degree – these are usually designed to feed into a particular Uni's normal degree programme and can be run by the Uni or effectvely sub contracted to a partner FE College. Use this to get into the nortmal first year and then think about transferring Uni if its not the one you want to graduate from.

Would probably be quicker and more succesful than trying to do A levels first. I also think you'll find that a lot of Unis ask a fair bit less grade wise than Bristol…I've known 2 Es in the past..

Alternatively, there may be some engineering-based Access courses at a FE College which feed into the local Uni.